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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: goodlife on July 26, 2014, 12:25:18
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What is going on!? How is one able to save seeds when there is no seeds in them!!! I'm now eating through my second truss of 'Old Wyandotte' tomatoes..and not a single seed in them! Great if you want seedless toms but pretty useless for the future :BangHead:
Is this usual for the variety? I know several of you have these seeds as they came through circle..I'm just helplessly behind with trialling all the varieties..as usual. Otherwise loooovely tomato!
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And while I started to rattle...I might as well carry on.. :glasses9:
I've just been in GH doing my mid-day inspection round...and picked T-shirt hem full of toms :icon_cheers: YUM YUM!
This year I've grown half a GH my own crosses and I'm please to report that it was few year ago when I made initial 'pollination fairy' thing.. as a result I have not 3 distinctive strains from that single cross... :icon_cheers: Though now I have to make sure they are stable..but so far so good :icon_cheers: One looks to be almost 'brown' tomato :icon_cheers:
I'm waiting to first fruits from each type to fully ripen and I send some 'proud mother' photos of my 'babies'.. :drunken_smilie:
BTW Jayb...just snooped your blog and been marvelling your toms....BEAUTIFUL!
How's others toms doing...any weird or particularly brilliant ones this year?
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What is going on!? How is one able to save seeds when there is no seeds in them!!! I'm now eating through my second truss of 'Old Wyandotte' tomatoes..and not a single seed in them! Great if you want seedless toms but pretty useless for the future :BangHead:
Is this usual for the variety? I know several of you have these seeds as they came through circle..I'm just helplessly behind with trialling all the varieties..as usual. Otherwise loooovely tomato!
Some tomato varieties are naturally able to set fruit without seed 'parthenocarpic'. Though the ones I've grown it only seems to occur in the early fruits setting in less than ideal temperatures. A handy trait if you want early tomatoes in cool conditions but not much use for the eager seed savers!!!!
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Forgot to add, I didn't notice with 'Old Wyandotte' but two others varieties that can set without seed are Ditmarcher and Betimes Macbeth which already has a low seed count but will also set without seed.
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Ooooh love crosses :blob7: any details of your designer toms, whilst you keep us in suspense :toothy10:
BTW Jayb...just snooped your blog and been marvelling your toms....BEAUTIFUL!
How's others toms doing...any weird or particularly brilliant ones this year?
Thank you :happy7:
Lots of weird :drunken_smilie: and hopefully some good ones to take on for next year :icon_cheers:
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Ooooh love crosses :blob7: any details of your designer toms, whilst you keep us in suspense :toothy10:
BTW Jayb...just snooped your blog and been marvelling your toms....BEAUTIFUL!
How's others toms doing...any weird or particularly brilliant ones this year?
Thank you :happy7:
Lots of weird :drunken_smilie: and hopefully some good ones to take on for next year :icon_cheers:
WELL...I crossed 'good old' exhibition F1 'cedrico' (red tom) with purple heritage variety...err...have to check that name..'senior' moment is going on....and it was just to see 'what will happen' :drunken_smilie: I was hoping that I might transfer the better flavour quality but still save that modern tomato's hybrid vigour...throw there in F1 that will make sure that off spring won't come true to type even with its on kind only..one couldn't have make much more of 'mutant' than that :icon_cheers: So now I have 'Cloud 9' that looks odd as a plant, all its leaves and trusses and even each individual leaflet that are trying to grow upwards direction..It is like dangle a plant upside down and tip you head between your legs and view that gravity taking place...that is how it is best described how it looks normal normal way round!... :drunken_smilie: Handy though...the plants don't seem to leaf out to much sideways so will suit fine my closer spacing :icon_cheers: And not only that!...the fruit is classic good size red fruit...almost like normal cedrico...but the skin is dull..like sanded down (not downy)..but when you look under fruit...it has little pointy tip..like little 'bleed' downwards.. :drunken_smilie: The fruits form into classic straight vine..and the trusses become heavy so they need to be tied to support the weight...the same 'fault' that cedrico had. I'm saying 'had' because this variety is not supposed to be available anymore...??
Now the second variety is just 'normal' leafy growth...slightly smaller size fruit..classic round and red but the truss size is bigger and formed as branched out truss...I'm still pondering if that is worth of carrying on.
The third one is showing the 'heritage' mix...just normal growth...normal round tomato..but the colour is odd..this one is first plant that came out in such a strong colour difference from the original so I'm yet to taste and see what it is like..but it looks good already :icon_cheers:...and it seems like there might be some that 'hybrid vigour' too as the trusses do look promising..plenty of fruits and good size per truss..and I haven't supported them neither!! :icon_cheers: I do hope there is plenty of seed in this one fruits...I want to play more with my 'toy' :icon_cheers:
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Love it :icon_cheers:
You're right a complicated cross, but great to see diversity in the F1's. Sounds like you could be on to a winner there, I've not grown Cedrico although it has great reports for looks flavour and production (I bought seeds a couple of years ago - just they haven't made my grow list yet!) I can't quite get my head around Cloud 9 at the moment, perhaps when you do your pictures :happy7:
They all sound like they could be keepers, look forward to hearing how they taste :icon_cheers:
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I've had dull one year and shiny the next, sometimes it can be environmental, little pointy tips sound cute.
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The assorted Heinz varieties can have very few seeds.... I generally try to save from each tomato I get, thogh biased towards big ones, plus isolation bagging and tagging a few toms is a good idea to have some guaranteed self-set ones..
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I've had dull one year and shiny the next, sometimes it can be environmental, little pointy tips sound cute.
I've had the dull skins on every generation and on every single fruit so it definitely is in their 'blood'..it doesn't look bad though...just different.
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I've had the dull skins on every generation and on every single fruit so it definitely is in their 'blood'..it doesn't look bad though...just different.
Last few days, I've been looking to see which gene is responsible for 'matt' skin as I've a few lines with it too! I think one came via Yellow Furry Hog. I'll try and take pictures later today.
Do your 'dull' ones almost feel damp to the touch?
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Do your 'dull' ones almost feel damp to the touch?
Can't say I have paid that kind of thoughts...but I shall got and fondle some later on.. :drunken_smilie:
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I've just been in GH doing my mid-day inspection round...and picked T-shirt hem full of toms :icon_cheers: YUM YUM!
:toothy10: :toothy10: :toothy10:
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These ones are seedless too, a nice early striped basket tomato, but naff for early seeds, luckily they will have some seeds later on.
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Do your 'dull' ones almost feel damp to the touch?
Can't say I have paid that kind of thoughts...but I shall got and fondle some later on.. :drunken_smilie:
lol (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/tongue.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Here's some of my dull/matt skin ones, are they anything similar to the ones you have?
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I am jealous that you already have ripe tomatoes! Mine are outdoors; covered in fruit and yet so far we have had 5 ripe cherry tomatoes and that is it!!! The Coeur d'Albenga again have produced masses of fruit. I think I will give away seed from it in the autumn so watch this space!
Also wondered - I received a free packet of "mixed " toms with a seed order. This is a bit maddening as you don't know what you've grown! Anyway one of them has grown into a very large (1.5 m tall) multi branched plant that has yellow long tomatoes! They are more cocktail tom size than cherries. Anyone have an idea as to the variety?
Also last question, I finally have two Sungold plants growing. And I thought they would be red but actually the tomatoes are a deep orange!Is this right? They are extremely delicious.
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Also last question, I finally have two Sungold plants growing. And I thought they would be red but actually the tomatoes are a deep orange!Is this right? They are extremely delicious.
Yes spot on, gorgeous aren't they :toothy10:
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Also wondered - I received a free packet of "mixed " toms with a seed order. This is a bit maddening as you don't know what you've grown! Anyway one of them has grown into a very large (1.5 m tall) multi branched plant that has yellow long tomatoes! They are more cocktail tom size than cherries. Anyone have an idea as to the variety?
What seed company did they come from, it might help narrow it down a bit?
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We must be a bit warmer here down south than you, Antipodes! I have Alicante ready to pick, plus a small plum tomato that I bought last year and kept seeds, which is full of fruit ripening. I've been picking Sungold for a couple of weeks now, and yes, they are a pale-ish orange, and simply the best flavour! i'm also picking.
It's not been a brilliant summer so far for tomatoes, too frequent rain, and not enough sun. But it is generally in the 20s, and all other veg have so far been brilliant and plentiful. We've been lucky so far.
From Antipodes; Also last question, I finally have two Sungold plants growing. And I thought they would be red but actually the tomatoes are a deep orange!Is this right? They are extremely delicious.
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Ok...I finally got round to take some photos..
Here is my Cloud 9..I took photo of the top the plant where the 'gravity gone upside down' can be clearly seen but the whole plant behave same and it doesn't change with 'age'...only when the vines get too heavy for the truss and then it will bend it down..or break it.
And its 'matt' but not 'damp' skins... :glasses9:
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Here is second of the 3 of 'my own' toms.
This one is the 'normal' one..teeny bit smaller fruit than the 'cloud 9' and instead of vine they are branched trusses and the skin has more 'shine' to it.
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Aaand...the last but not least..
the one that has more of the 'cross' showing in fruit colour. It looks like I need to take another photo in different light as it was difficult to get colour in photo...now that the first fruit is truly ripe..it has turned from brownish red to deep red...like with hint of 'black'....it was a black tomato that was the pollination partner. I should have taken the photo each fruit side by side to show the colour, shininess/dullness variation.
The truss and fruit size is slightly smaller too compared to its 'sister' plants..the fruit size within the same truss is not even neither.
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They look smashing Goodlife :toothy10:
Unusual foliage on Cloud 9.
Blacks are really divided into two types, brown-black and purple-black. The browns have a yellow skin and purple a clear one. They do look great though, what generation are they? And more importantly how did they all taste :blob7:
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They look smashing Goodlife :toothy10:
Unusual foliage on Cloud 9.
Blacks are really divided into two types, brown-black and purple-black. The browns have a yellow skin and purple a clear one. They do look great though, what generation are they? And more importantly how did they all taste :blob7:
Umm...they are 3 rd or 4 th generation( I can't quite remember without going to through seed packets)...though I do go back to previous 'batches' for have still so many seeds..and it is good to compare..+ one doesn't know what other surprises there might be lurking..maybe 'type 4'?! But it has pretty much been just those 3 different lots coming through each year.
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What seed company did they come from, it might help narrow it down a bit?
Actually I think that goodlife sent me this packet in a swap!!!!! ha ha since she has about a zillion tomatoes, we'll never find it. They are lovely tomatoes though, I finally got two ripe ones yesterday and they are very tasty. I will try saving seed, maybe they are not F1s.
Yes those Sungold are terrific!I like the way they grow on tidy branches although they spread quite wide! They seem prolific and the skin is just right, not too thick and not too thin.
UPDATE§§§§§had a look and I think they might be a Golden Roma ! They are elongated but not a distinctive pear shape. http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1 (http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1) mmm says they are a hybrid, wonder if saved seed would work? otherwise have to buy some.
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What seed company did they come from, it might help narrow it down a bit?
Actually I think that goodlife sent me this packet in a swap!!!!! ha ha since she has about a zillion tomatoes, we'll never find it. They are lovely tomatoes though, I finally got two ripe ones yesterday and they are very tasty. I will try saving seed, maybe they are not F1s.
Yes those Sungold are terrific!I like the way they grow on tidy branches although they spread quite wide! They seem prolific and the skin is just right, not too thick and not too thin.
UPDATE§§§§§had a look and I think they might be a Golden Roma ! They are elongated but not a distinctive pear shape. http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1 (http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1) mmm says they are a hybrid, wonder if saved seed would work? otherwise have to buy some.
OH..are they those yellow, very sweet sort that I like to grow...Sun Belle..cherry sized, plum shaped, low acidity quite 'meaty' for a cherry tom?
Edit to add...No, they are not those..I just read your post again and you mentioned 'mixed packet'...well those are from http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/...so feel free to rummage through their pages for what they might be..
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Golden Grape perhaps?
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What seed company did they come from, it might help narrow it down a bit?
Actually I think that goodlife sent me this packet in a swap!!!!! ha ha since she has about a zillion tomatoes, we'll never find it. They are lovely tomatoes though, I finally got two ripe ones yesterday and they are very tasty. I will try saving seed, maybe they are not F1s.
Yes those Sungold are terrific!I like the way they grow on tidy branches although they spread quite wide! They seem prolific and the skin is just right, not too thick and not too thin.
UPDATE§§§§§had a look and I think they might be a Golden Roma ! They are elongated but not a distinctive pear shape. http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1 (http://www.osborneseed.com/product-details.cfm?tomato--golden-rave-f1) mmm says they are a hybrid, wonder if saved seed would work? otherwise have to buy some.
You could certainly try saving seeds. You'll likely see some variation but if you keep saving seeds from your favourite each year you'll end up with a stable variety eventually. Might not be exactly the same, but it'd be a fun experiment!
I was reading about a space-saving way to grow out segregating tom seeds - you plant six seedlings in a single pot (the size you'd normally use for one plant) and keep the plants very small, only allowing them to set one truss before pinching out the tops. It gives you enough fruits to be able to test each plant and you'll still get plenty of seed from the rest of the fruit. I'm planning to try this myself next year.
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OH..are they those yellow, very sweet sort that I like to grow...Sun Belle..cherry sized, plum shaped, low acidity quite 'meaty' for a cherry tom?
Edit to add...No, they are not those..I just read your post again and you mentioned 'mixed packet'...well those are from http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/...so feel free to rummage through their pages for what they might be..
I think it might be these... http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1543?actionName=view_tomatoes&itemname=OLD+IVORY+EGG&page=10 (http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1543?actionName=view_tomatoes&itemname=OLD+IVORY+EGG&page=10) They are about the size of a small hen's egg and they don't have a pointy bit like the Italian types often do. They are more egg than pear shaped...
And the packet that you sent me I am pretty sure was this... http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1712?actionName=view_tomatoes&itemname=TOMBOLA+%28MIXED+TOMATOES%29&page=15 (http://www.plant-world-seeds.com/store/view_seed_item/1712?actionName=view_tomatoes&itemname=TOMBOLA+%28MIXED+TOMATOES%29&page=15) Maybe I will sow more from that packet next year as these yellow ones are terrific!
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Old Wyandotte never has that many seeds anyway. Only just a few in tiny seed cavities near the outside of the tomato. Wonderfully meaty.
Yes there are several partially parthenocarpic tomato varieties. Usually the second truss (later in the season) has enough seeds for seed saving.
Professor Baggett used to work at Oregon State University and bred lots of different tomatoes. He made a virtue out of this and developed several tomatoes with this as a feature. Parthenocarpic tomatoes do not need to be pollinated to produce fruit which means that production can start earlier when nights in Oregon are above freezing but still too cold for tomato pollination.
http://www.saveseeds.org/biography/baggett/
A short but very interesting write-up and appreciation of Prof Baggett's life's work in vegetable breeding.
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/osu-develops-tomatoes-especially-pnw-gardeners
An article about vegetable breeding at Oregon State University more generally. In these days of hybrids and GM development everywhere, it is good to know and celebrate open pollinated vegetable breeders and their varieties.
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On the subject of tomato seeds, and Sungold which are F1 - I'm interested in what Silverleaf said, and I"m thinking of trying to save some of their seed, and keeping on trying over several years, to get a stable variety; also with putting 6 seedlings in one pot and just letting one truss grow as described below. I really like Sungold, but get fed up with having to pay extortionate amounts for 5 seeds!
You'll likely see some variation but if you keep saving seeds from your favourite each year you'll end up with a stable variety eventually. Might not be exactly the same, but it'd be a fun experiment!
I was reading about a space-saving way to grow out segregating tom seeds - you plant six seedlings in a single pot (the size you'd normally use for one plant) and keep the plants very small, only allowing them to set one truss before pinching out the tops. It gives you enough fruits to be able to test each plant and you'll still get plenty of seed from the rest of the fruit. I'm planning to try this myself next year.
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Peanuts, if you would like a shortcut, you could buy dehybridised Sungold seeds:
Sungold Select from Baker Creek
http://www.rareseeds.com/sungold-select-ii-tomat/
or from the breeder:
http://tomaten.bplaced.net/tomatenhahm.html#Tomaten
Number 867
I have a strain of dehybridised Sungold seeds from a third source (a friend's private breeding effort), but they don't have quite the same flavour as the F1 Sungold. If you would like some seeds, you are very welcome.
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On the subject of tomato seeds, and Sungold which are F1 - I'm interested in what Silverleaf said, and I"m thinking of trying to save some of their seed, and keeping on trying over several years, to get a stable variety; also with putting 6 seedlings in one pot and just letting one truss grow as described below. I really like Sungold, but get fed up with having to pay extortionate amounts for 5 seeds!
You'll likely see some variation but if you keep saving seeds from your favourite each year you'll end up with a stable variety eventually. Might not be exactly the same, but it'd be a fun experiment!
I was reading about a space-saving way to grow out segregating tom seeds - you plant six seedlings in a single pot (the size you'd normally use for one plant) and keep the plants very small, only allowing them to set one truss before pinching out the tops. It gives you enough fruits to be able to test each plant and you'll still get plenty of seed from the rest of the fruit. I'm planning to try this myself next year.
Go for it! I'd love to see what happens. :)
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Last year I saved seed from about 6 different varieties(not F1) and with the exception of the large Délice de Burpée, they have been on the disappointing side, largely I think because of the poor summer we have had here, lots of rain and, so far, few decent hot days. So I'm wavering at the moment between saving more seed and just buying plants next year for a change. There is always a wide selection of different varieties available locally, and I have to say, it would be ever so much easier!
So in the end, I may just try saving my own seed from Sungold to see what happens. But thanks very much for the info, Galina.