Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: MrsKP on March 14, 2008, 06:43:15
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Gardener ordered off allotment by Lizzie Thornton, Kentish Times 13/3/08
A woman who has tended an allotment plot for more than 10 years has been forced off the land.
Swanley town council said christine Ford, 47, of Claremont road, Hextable, was told she would have to quit the plot when Hextable breaks away to form its own parish council as Swanley gives priority to its own residents.
The mother-of-two, who transformed the allotment near swanley Park took over in 1997, had the support of Swanley plot-holders who signed her petition last year.
But at a council meeting last thursday she was told her bid to keep the plot had failed and she must vacate the land.
She said "At the moment I just feel very disheartened. I'm not sure I want to start again on another allotment.
"Yes, it is reasonable for Swanley residents to have priority but it is totally unreasonable to kick me out after 11 years. I also think it is a petty, political decision because Swanley councillors are bitter about Hextable breaking off.
"When I first got the plot it was covered in perennial couch grass, which is a very nasty, persistent weed. I eventually gor rid of it all and turned it into a healthy, productive patch of land.
"For someone else to just come and pick up where I left off is very unfair. I don't know the procedure as to whether I can appeal but I probably will, in time".
Mrs Ford, who produces organic food for her teenage children from the plot, has been told she can stay on the land until December.
Gravesham council and Bexley council were among six authorities which wrote to Swanley in support of Mrs Ford.
Independent councillor Dee Morris said "it's outrageous the council could do this to the poor woman. She's been here for 11 years!".
But Conservative councillor Robert Woodbridge said: "The council have a policy on allotments and we have to stick to it. The point is that Swanley Town Council has a waiting list of 12 people for allotment and it's not fair when there is somebody from hextable taking up a space. it's not a political decision.
"The other councils that say they're supporting Mrs Ford don't have waiting list and that's the difference.
"Mrs ford was told in July 2006 that she had to move when hextable becomes independent so she's had enough time to find somewhere else".
Wouldn't you like to meet Mr Woodbridge on a dark night with a bucket of cow poo ? Forward, open thinking man of letters that he is.
I know what I'd do ................ Move ! or at least change address.
The swines! :-X
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Not a political desicion my ar**! How ridiculous! :(
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Dreadful behaviour... >:(
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She's a victim, nothing less. I could understand handing the plot to a local after she finished with it, but to take away the land she has transformed is criminal.
What a pathetic bunch of pratts!........ :P
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Life as a Swanley Town Councillor must be difficult ;) as their heads seem to be full of so many end-of-the-world worries.
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Our newly formed allotment committee has a similar problem: with so many on our waiting list, we have decided to close the list to people outside the immediate area.
BUT we made exceptions for one or two people already there. One man has coached village scout group for years, although he comes from somewhere else, and has done wonders with his plot, which used to be under a very messy dump (mattresses, club root cabbages, barbed wire, old carpets etc).
Can Christine Ford make an appeal based on local connections of some sort? It is very unreasonable to turn people off who have worked well for so long. The new rule should clearly not be retrospective, but should apply only to new applications.
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Is there an actual rule which says that plots can only be let to residents of Swanley? If nit, they don't have grounds to throw her off unless there's something else we don't know.
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sorry to be vidictive, I'd be salting the land but that's just me..mean s*ds >:(
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I know what I'd do ................ Move ! or at least change address.
The swines! :-X
I'd be campaigning to rename them Swinely Town Council - it's either that or swearing rather badly which I won't on here :o
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sorry to be vidictive, I'd be salting the land but that's just me..mean s*ds >:(
It had occurred to me too but that would be just mean :P
Don't know the lady personally, but came across the article in one of the freebie newspapers that was delivered this week. She's got plenty of backing from the other councils so I'm sure she's been well advised.
Just another sign that the world is barmy ......... well in Swanley anyway.
Having spent a few months down here now, I've spied quite a few allotments dotted around. Am running out of time now, but should have gone for a wander really.
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How mean can you get :'(
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Just to let people here know the background to this situation.
Hextable is currently part of Swanley parish and people from Hextable can therefore access the full range of services provided by Swanley Town Council. Those services are very extensive compared to typical town councils and include Senior and Youth Passport schemes providing trips to facilities not available in the town, sports pitches, parks, bars and restaurants as well as allotments. Some of the services are provided for Swanley residents only while others can be accessed by anyone.
Following a campaign by Hextable Residents Association and the Hextable ward councillors for a separate parish, Hextable ceases to be part of Swanley on 1 April 2008. We warned Hextable residents about the loss of access to Swanley services if Hextable became a separate parish but residents backed the separation in a consultation regardless.
I feel very sorry for Mrs Ford and for the people who can no longer access other Swanley services after 1 April this year. Unfortunately it is an inevitable consequence of the choice that Hextable residents have made.
I suspect the main reason why people backed the separation of Hextable from Swanley was because they were told by their Hextable Independent councillors that it would mean lower council taxes. In reality the council tax in Hextable will go up by 15 per cent. Residents were also told by Hextable Independent Councillors that they would get the same services. The claims made by the Hextable Independents about council tax and services are both now shown to be untrue.
Rather than getting uptight about Swanley Town Council, people should really be directing their criticism at the Hextable Independent councillors who campaigned for a separate parish and misled Hextable residents into supporting it.
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All very interesting Ian but surely sometimes people have to act honourably and with Grace.The world will not end if this lady is allowed to keep her plot.
Good to think outside of the box sometimes. :)
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I'm sure most of what Mr Rashbrook has written is accurate but I do think when posting on a political matter people should declare an interest.
Irrespective of any allegedly misleading statements by the independent councillors (good heavens, politicians not telling the truth) , it does seem a vindictive decision - couldn't they do a swap by letting Swanley have the right to one Hextable allotment?
I would expect a Labour councillor to support someone in this position.
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It sounds as though the Swanley lot have a grudge, and the plotholder is sufficiently powerless to be used as a sacrifice to their spleen.
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Just to let people here know the background to this situation.
Hextable is currently part of Swanley parish and people from Hextable can therefore access the full range of services provided by Swanley Town Council. Those services are very extensive compared to typical town councils and include Senior and Youth Passport schemes providing trips to facilities not available in the town, sports pitches, parks, bars and restaurants as well as allotments. Some of the services are provided for Swanley residents only while others can be accessed by anyone.
Following a campaign by Hextable Residents Association and the Hextable ward councillors for a separate parish, Hextable ceases to be part of Swanley on 1 April 2008. We warned Hextable residents about the loss of access to Swanley services if Hextable became a separate parish but residents backed the separation in a consultation regardless.
I feel very sorry for Mrs Ford and for the people who can no longer access other Swanley services after 1 April this year. Unfortunately it is an inevitable consequence of the choice that Hextable residents have made.
I suspect the main reason why people backed the separation of Hextable from Swanley was because they were told by their Hextable Independent councillors that it would mean lower council taxes. In reality the council tax in Hextable will go up by 15 per cent. Residents were also told by Hextable Independent Councillors that they would get the same services. The claims made by the Hextable Independents about council tax and services are both now shown to be untrue.
Rather than getting uptight about Swanley Town Council, people should really be directing their criticism at the Hextable Independent councillors who campaigned for a separate parish and misled Hextable residents into supporting it.
Your comments make you sound like yet another clipboard-wielding jobsworth, out to prove a point and happy to make the lives of others a misery in order to prove your point. Can't you get a propper job?
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If you google him you'll find he's a town councillor (surprise!)
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Was a town councillor (Labour). Was beaten at the last election by a Conservative.
I think this whole murky thing is grubby politics, with people being used as pawns in the game. I have no idea except what I've read here about the situation regarding Swanley and Hextable separating. But I don't think either side should be quite so keen to throw their teddies out of the pram. This kind of behaviour has a tendency to backfire.
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as parish councilors they are supposed to be fair and impartial she could take them to the standards board if she feels that there is something wrong.
There obviously worried if this Ian Rashbrook registered just to see what were all saying, i would go to the daily mail they love this middle england bashing.
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Was a town councillor (Labour). Was beaten at the last election by a Conservative.
I hope thats going to happen lots very soon.
I think this is ridiculus and so is the ex councillor for trying to justify it.
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I have three council boundaries within a mile of my home, my council have the policy that you can rent an allotment if you live within or no more than three miles from their boundary. Not sure if this is a common agreement or what!
This lady has a moral right to her allotment because she has had it so long!!
Bloody beaurocrats!
Louise
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Thought I'd do a spot of research on this, and put Swanley Hextable allotment into Google.
Guess which thread/site came up top of the list? ;D
That's no good is it if I want to learn something new? ;)
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I did that search too.
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And obviously so did Mr Rashbrook? :)
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These jobsworth councillors are just the pits
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I've been doing a spot of trawling on the net about the separation of Hextable and Swanley, and I'm surmising from what I've read that it's left some bad feeling between the two parishes, particularly so with Swanley, which seems to have had the most to lose (Hextable was the "affluent" part of town apparently). About 3/4 of Hextable wanted to be separate on the grounds that it would benefit their village, and only 1/4 of Swanley thought it was a reasonable idea, on the grounds that to do so would be detrimental to themselves.
Fair enough, they feel they've lost out here - but it's happened now. Sensible thing to do seems to be to draw a line under it and move on. And not to try to score cheap points.
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Well at least he did post to give his point of view.Hopefully now he has read all our comments he might have a rethink and give his backing to this poor lady.Come on Ian ,have a heart and give this lady some support.You would earn yourself a lot of respect. :)
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I think this is ridiculus and so is the ex councillor for trying to justify it.
I think you will find that like all ex councillors he will be co-opted in the near future. I wonder which council?
It is the only way some of them can get a seat again. It is the old pals act coming into play.
Elected councillors need to be elected by democratic vote. Co-opted councillors only need a nod from their mates.
It's all legal as well, they work on the apathy vote.
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Get in touch with this MP urgently. You do not have to be in his constituency as allotments is something close to his heart. He is pursuing ongoing stuff regarding allotments in Parliament. I got a reply quite soon. You could also contact his office direct, hopefully for a more urgent response.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2008-02-19c.154.0
Have you asked your new borough council if you could go to the top of the waiting list for the next available plot in the newly named district? Just a thought as you previously came under them before the split anyway. ???
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Get in touch with this MP urgently.
Just done that with a link to this thread.
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Apologies for not declaring an interest on my previous post. I assumed my email address would appear which makes it quite clear what my politics are. For the record, which is very public anyway, I am chairman of the Labour Party in Swanley and was a Swanley Town councillor from 2003 to 2007. During that time I argued strongly against the proposals to create a separate Hextable Parish as it would create precisely the problem which people are getting so exercised about. As I said previously, I believe this whole situation is very sad.
I'm not an allotment holder and only came across the site whilst doing an internet search for something completely different. My post was not down to being worried, far from it. It was motivated by a thought that people with no apparent connection with Swanley but an obvious interest in allotments might be interested to know the background to a situation that had caused them to post their views on this website. Maybe I should have opted for the quiet life but my post has at least generated a few comments that deserve a response.
The suggestion that Swanley should have access to one plot in Hextable doesn't work because there are no allotments in Hextable. It is an area that has recently been identified as being in need of allotments by Sevenoaks District Council. If the area had still been part of Swanley we would be looking to do something about that. As it is not anymore, a colleague who knows much more about this than I is writing to the plot holders affected (I think there are two although the newspaper report only mentions one) to explain what they need to do to get the new Hextable Parish Council to provide plots for residents there. There are also unused plots in some neighbouring areas which might be available.
Swanley's problem is that is does not currently have sufficient plots for all the people that want them and there is a waiting list of Swanley residents who would like a plot but do not have one. If there were surplus plots there would not be a problem. Once the split happens on April 1, Swanley's obligation must first and foremost be to the residents of Swanley Parish. On the whole they don't want their council taxes spent subsidising neighbouring areas. Would it be reasonable to deny a plot to an aspiring allotment holder who pays council tax to Swanley Council in favour of someone who will no longer be doing so? I don't think so. I have put that much more politely than some of the comments about Hextable that have come from people in Swanley in recent months. Whoever pointed out that the situation here has been acrimonious has got it spot on.
Incidentally, one of the things that Swanley Council had planned to do over this last year was develop a Parish Plan looking at land use and the provision of facilities. Even without the SDC report, that could well have identified sites for additional plots. Unfortunately work on that plan had to be suspended when it was announced that the Hextable split would proceed because our small group of council officers had to devote very large parts of their time to dealing with what is a major business reorganisation with the associated legal, financial and personnel issues to resolve. The good news is that work on the plan should resume shortly and, as a result, provision of additional plots should be possible for the twenty or so people who want allotments but currently don't have one. If this work can be done quickly enough and sites can be identified then it may be possible to review the notice to quit. However, I'm not about to make promises that might not be possible to deliver.
As for getting "a proper job", I have one thanks. If I had relied on my income from being a councillor I'd have starved to death in 2003. Like most town and parish councillors, Swanley Town Councillors are unpaid. The considerable amount of time that people from all political parties here put in is given up freely.
Anyone who actually knows how Swanley Council functions would not describe people connected with it as "jobsworths". It is one of the most responsive I've ever come across and I have lived in London, the West Midlands and East Anglia before moving here. That probably explains why voter turnout is rising here when in most parts of the country it is falling.
And sadly for me, there is no co-option of councillors here in Swanley either. All seats are contested. The only way onto this council is by election and that is how it should be. I will be knocking on doors again talking to the electorate for the next few weeks. At least I will if the snow stops.
Ian Rashbrook
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I hope he get the boot let if snow let it snow let it snow- then he will not go out canvasing
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Would it be reasonable to deny a plot to an aspiring allotment holder who pays council tax to Swanley Council in favour of someone who will no longer be doing so? I don't think so.
Ian Rashbrook
Ian is it reasonable to take an allotment off someone because of a situation she has no control over?
I'm sick of all the nanby panby do gooders who run this country but don't listen to what the people actually want,
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Hello Ian,yes you have put your head over the parapet so thanks for that at least.You appear to me to have a very single vision over this issue.Everybody must stick to the rules and be in the correct little box.You say you sympathise with the lady.Do you really?As a labour man I would expect you to be banging the drum for the underdog.The labour party I grew up with certainly would.To me this is a moral issue.You may be acting within the law but to let this lady lose her plot is immoral.
As you do not have an allotment you probably find it difficult to understand that it takes many years of hard graft to get your plot into a good state.Can you imagine how galling it would be to have to turn your back on your hard work and hand it over to someone else in these circumstances?
We are all very passionate about our allotments and we will always stick up
for our fellow allotmenters no matter where they are in the world.
I am glad you are considering making more allotments available but please do your best to help this lady keep her plot.Keep us posted.
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On my site the parish the allotments are in gives priority to the people living in that parish on the waiting list but once someone from a neighbouring parish gets one thats it ,they stay! in fact most of the people on the commitee don,t live in the parish,they are very hardworking and if they were chucked off it would probobly fall apart! why can,t Swanley council do the same?
marg
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Yes,I am sure I read on the thread about plot rents that people outside the parish paid a slightly higher rent.There are ways round this issue I am sure.
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On my site the parish the allotments are in gives priority to the people living in that parish on the waiting list but once someone from a neighbouring parish gets one thats it ,they stay! in fact most of the people on the commitee don,t live in the parish,they are very hardworking and if they were chucked off it would probobly fall apart! why can,t Swanley council do the same?
marg
People from outside the area are welcome on 99% of sites. If there isn't something in the contract to say that the plots are only for people from Swanley, I'd say the council are on very thin ice.
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Being the stubborn bastard I'm I would just claim 'grandfather rights' after ten years and just carry on digging the lotty and say to them 'I ain't moving pal' :)
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For my money Rashbrook has just made the situation worse. How can he or anyone come to that justify a decision without being educated about what the decision is.
If anything is in situ, and in this case it is a lady on an allotment, there are many things to consider before moving it.
If common sense was allowed to prevail when the decision was made to stop allotmenteers from taking lots outside of their area due to a boundary move or any other reason AND I am in agreement with that by the way, surely to goodness it should not apply to folks already there, that wouldn't be difficult, it is just another line on a piece of paper.
This lady is not going to be there forever, her children don't have rights to the plot , for goodness sake, the council in charge are acting like fools ,goodness only knows what disasters could occur if they had a serious decision to make.
This is not just a patch of ground, there will have spent years of work to get it into the condition it is now, she may well have buildings, greenhouse or shed, perennial veggies that take years to become fruitful.
At her age giving her another patch somewhere is no use,she probably couldn't put all the work into a new one.I certainly couldn't, it would be the end for me.
With all the trouble in the world why on earth couldn't one little old lady, gardening her veggies be left alone.
Come on , use an atom of common sense here, don't try and justify it.
The problem is as I said, those folks who made this decision sitting on their benches simply didn't bother to look into what this would mean to her AND what little it would mean to leave her alone for as long as it takes.
I doubt very much if anyone waiting for a lottie would want to kick off an elderly lady to get one.
Absolute twaddle, I would laugh if it wasn't so serious.
Personally I wouldn't leave my patch, they would have to carry me off, trowel in hand and probably with half the countries allotment owners there to protest. The council would look like what they are..idiots
I would go and support her
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I can't see any socialist principles applying in this judgment - apart from Ken Livingstone (hawk, spit) kind of course. ::)
And I'm a leftie myself.
In the case of any kind of boundary/borough change, then surely services etc. only change pro-spectively, not retro-spectively (the bold and hyphens are my own). This plot-holder is already in place, has been for some years, and hasn't broken any contract terms as far as we know.
After reading Mr Rashbrook's explanation I'm afraid I stand by my original statement of murky politics and using people as pawns. It's too late now, and incredibly childish, to thumb your nose at the people of Hextable and say "Ner, told you it wasn't a good idea to split from us" and use this lady as an example and a scapegoat. It doesn't portray Swanley council in a good light at all.
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Jeannine, are you hiring a bus for us? I'll write the banner. ;D
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You bet... THIS I would carry a banner for. Crazy, and our lives are in their hands!!
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I wonder what would happen if she did refuse to move?
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There is a wonderful irony to this story. Councillor Woodbridge is an allotment holder himself, but not in Swanley. He actually has a plot in neighbouring Dartford!!! Despite the fact that he is registered disabled and apparently cannot work, he is currently the chairman of an allotment association there, where he apparently spends most of the week undertaking physical labour.... However, I have heard today that he may well have been removed by the authorities for being a two-faced hypocritical so-and-so vis-a-vis the lady from Hextable!
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Well well well,you live and learn.............. :(
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Whatever our personal politics, it's guess that most posters on this site (and most voters in Swanley and Hextable) would see the sense of exercising the politics of generousity in this case.
If the council are nice rather than nasty in this case, they'll have made a bid deposit in their common sense decency account which they can call on in the future.
A short term win by evicting some "outsider" may play well today - but in the longer term, every council needs allies - and Swanley appear to be into playground politics (regardless of their party label) rather that seeing the long-term interests of their residents are enhanced by give and take with their neighbours.
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Kent County Council are evil. The head scoops in over half a million wages each year and his second in command not far behind. Ask Swanley borough council how much of our Council Tax pays the deficit on the final salary pensions of Kent County Council Workers. And ask then how many back handers they have copped from Building firms to confiscate the allotments.
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Wasn't there some mention in the original post that the other plot holders on the site had signed a petition that she should be allowed to continue on the plot? Again, another example of the People wanting/demanding one thing and the Politicians who are voted in as our mouth-piece suddenly being struck deaf - usually in their own favour or simply to make a point. When will politicians learn to listen to the People? Personally, I would feel dreadful if I was the name at the top of the waiting list and given that plot under the current circumstances. I hope that good sense prevails and the Councillors turn the decision around and make themselves look
pathetic sympathetic.
Twinkletoes
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I'm rather glad I fell across the original newspaper article. It has certainly generated some debate .........
I'm back oop north now, but will ask Dad to keep an eye on the papers so see what becomes of the situation.
In the mean time, I hope the good lady carries on tending to her plot in the same fashion that she did before ........ and sticks two fingers up at the bureaucrats.
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Here here. ;D ;D ;D
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I see there haven't been any posts about this for some time but, as there are about to be developments, I thought I'd let you know what is going on in Swanley.
Just to get the declaration of interest out of the way... There were elections for Swanley Town Council on May 1. The council was retained by Labour with the highest vote for at least 30 years (on a bad day for Labour elsewhere). Clearly people in Swanley either like having a "nasty" town council or more likely don't think we are nasty at all. I am a councillor again and the new Leader of the Council.
Four motions will be considered at the forthcoming full council meeting, one being about allotments. It reads as follows:
"That this Council:
1. Notes that demand for allotments in Swanley currently exceeds the number of sites available;
2. Instructs the Town Clerk to investigates options to increase the number of allotments available in Swanley Parish;
3. Notes that two allotment holders now resident in a neighbouring parish have been given notice to quit;
4. Instructs the Town Clerk to invite the neighbouring Parish Council to enter into an agreement with Swanley Town Council leasing the two pitches (on the basis which fully covers the cost of allotment provision) on behalf of the two residents and, on completion of such an agreement, the notices to quit be withdrawn."
The effect of (4) is to allow the two allotment holders who no longer reside in Swanley Parish to keep their allotments if the newly created Hextable Parish Council is prepared to meet the costs. At the time when Hextable residents were asked to support a breakaway, those who asked what would happen about services provided by Swanley, were told not to worry, the new Parish Council would buy in to services they couldn't provide themselves. The onus is now on the Hextable Independents to honour that commitment. The effect of (2) is to ensure that no Swanley residents currently on the allotment waiting list are disadvantaged by providing additional pitches to meet current demand. From memory I think there are about 20 people waiting for allotments to become available. Our aim is to ensure all get allotments at suitable locations.
The other three motions provide access to services / facilities provided by Swanley Town Council to residents in all neighbouring parishes should those Parish Councils buy into the schemes. They are: the Swanley Youth and Senior Passport to Leisure programmes, the Senior Citizens' Christmas Day Lunch and discounted access to Swanley Banqueting facilities.
Ian Rashbrook
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Congratulations Ian and thank you for the post to bring us up to date.
I really hope that the two plot holders can retain their plots.
Maybe then we can call you Lovely Lovely swanley Town Council.
Keep us Posted. :)
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Wekk done Ian.
Its nice to know that the two allotment holders will get to stay on the site.
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scuse me if I'm being dumb, but does it mean that the two allotment holders only get to keep their plots IF Hextable stump up cash ?
Does the hard work of the two plottees count for naught ?
Can't say decency has entered into this at all. Hope they get to say, but still think the whole things rotten.
Sorry if I'm being churlish.
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Not churlish................At least a compromise.............better than nothing.
Pity money is God.
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Suppose you're right betula. at least now the two have the chance to stay. Let's hope Hextable does the decent thing and pay up.
and yes thanks to Ian for keeping us informed although (I'm still not patting him on the back).
:-\
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Hi,
You are right. It does depend on Hextable being prepared to pay. What we are doing is putting in place arrangements that allow the Hextable Independents (who advocated the separation of Hextable from Swanley and who control the new Hextable Parish Council) to do what they told Hextable residents they would do - buy in to services from Swanley. There should therefore be no reason why the two allotment holders should now have to leave, unless the advocates of the split were being dishonest when they first asked for support for the separation.
There will also be about twenty people who get allotments for the first time as a result of our proposal. I'd have thought there might be some support for that on this site!
Ian
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You'd probably get more support if you were seen to be doing the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing rather than political point-scoring.
As for providing 20 new allotments, come back and tell us when the plots are there and tenanted and we'll give you a cheer.
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No pat on the back from me yet either Ian, I'm with MrsKp and ceres on this one, come back when the plots ready and working, so what happens when Hextable don't pay, will you just put the blame on them or will you do the decent thing, I doubt it but will love to be proved wrong and surely the tenants pay you their rent so what exactly do you want paying for, on our site people outside the Borough pay that little bit more. :-\ :-\ ;D ;D ;D
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I wish we had a Labour council at least I might not have to wait 5 to 6 years for a plot (80 in front of me) they might also answer the phone i've just try to get in touch with them for the last half hour
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Well done Ian - presumably the council are being asked for no more than the allotments cost to other allotmenteers?
And yes - really good news if new allotments do become available!
I think that we can all get bogged down in the mire called politics! I for one don't anymore. I don't listen to it and I don't read political bits in papers - bores me to tears! I used to and used to get uptight and steamed up - now - if you don't know about it - you tend to find life is much easier - more chilled.
Easy to say if you aren't affected though - I do understand!
Old Bird
;D
Old Bird
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Latest and hopefully final update.
The two allotment holders from Hextable have retained their plots with Hextable Parish Council having finally accepted Swanley Town Council's offer.
And all the Swanley residents currently on the waiting list for a plot will shortly get their allotment as works are underway to expand Swanley Council's Kettlewell Court site. The number of additional plots slightly exceeds the current waiting list to cater for anyone else who may want a site.
Cllr Ian Rashbrook
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The two allotment holders from Hextable have retained their plots with Hextable Parish Council having finally accepted Swanley Town Council's offer.
And all the Swanley residents currently on the waiting list for a plot will shortly get their allotment
Well that is sensible and good news! ;D
I'm sure more allotments 4 all is a positive step for all local residents, whichever town they reside in....... ;)
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Well said Debs, is the local election coming up Ian. :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :-*
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Kev,
There's always an election coming up. Next Swanley Town Council elections are in May 2011. Kent County Council and European Parliament elections are in June this year.
Ian
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Sorry Ian but I knew you'd bite. ;) :-* ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Good news then ;D
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You may find that a few councils have the same clause but in the past have never had to use it but now that allotments have become more sought after with lots of them having waiting lists they will always try to remove the plot holders who do not stay in there area.
our own allotment do have a couple of plot holders from outside the area but the council do not know as we do not give out names or addresses to any third parties whatsoever.
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Sorry Ian but I knew you'd bite. ;) :-* ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Kev,
What kind of a council would you prefer. One which does things like Swanley, enlarging the allotments to meet demand, in doing so attracting the cynical comment that there's an election coming up? Or would you prefer one like Hextable which makes zero provision for people wanting an allotment, and attracts no criticism from people like you whatsoever?
There, I've bitten again.
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I think it is great news.
You never know Ian,you may wish to have a plot of your own one day ;D
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I'd love to have the time to look after an allotment. But not easy when I spend 20-30 hours a week on council business on top of a full time job.
Allotment situation in Swanley is that all the new plots are taken and we still have a waiting list as more people have applied. I'm now looking at other sites where we might expand.
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At least you're looking! It's more than most coucils are doing.
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Maybe Ian, people like me have an axe to grind with councils at this moment in time , fair play if your doing your bit at the moment but I never met a council bod thats not in it for their own gain, maybe your different :-\ lets hope so. ;D ;D ;D
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I had a meeting with our Town Clerk yesterday and discovered that the waiting list for allotments is as large as it was before we expanded the Kettlewell Court allotment site. News of the additional plots prompted more people to sign up.
We're now talking to a non-council allotment group in the southern part of Swanley which has some vacant plots to put them in touch with people on the waiting list who live nearby. In addition, in the St Mary's area of Swanley, where there are no allotments, we're approaching Kent County Council to see if they will transfer part of the former school playing fields site to Swanley Town Council for use as public open space. If this can be secured part of the site would be ideal to provide allotments for people in that area of Swanley.
Ian Rashbrook
Labour councillor for St Mary's ward, Swanley
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Good news............nice to see a council trying to give people what they want. ;D
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Its onwards and upwards then Ian. ;D ;D ;D
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Some people will start reading this again as reference has been made to it in the recent Swanley News Shopper. I would like an allotment in Hextable when they become available. I would just like to correct one thing in the letter from the Lizzie Thornton Kentish Times (14th March 2008) Councillor Robert Woodbridge IS NOT a Conservative Councillor He is the Labour Leader of Swanley Town Council. The Conservative Councillors voted for Mrs Ford to keep her Allotment.
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What is happening now re Swanley.??
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How fabulous-I love you lot!! You are fierce! ;D
Thank you firstly for stalling the inevitable ironing with this thread. It's so great to know that allotments have such support in the face of councils wanting to put blocks of flats on every piece of ground. I wonder if this lady ever knew she had support here and people willing to get on a bus and defend her right to her plot-I'd have been on it Jeannine!
Power to the People (especially allotmenteers!)
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Betula asked for Swanley News. There's good and bad.
Swanley Town Council completed our allotment expansion and all plots were immediately snapped up. And, inevitably, news of the new plots attracted more people to ask for allotments so we once again have a waiting list.
Of the four wards that make up Swanley only one (St Mary's) does not have an allotment site. we have identified land that is suitable but it's not in our ownership. It belongs to Kent County Council and we are negotiating the transfer of this land to Swanley Town Council so we can bring it back into public use, including allotments. It was formerly school playing fields.
To my knowledge, two local schools are creating allotment type areas for use by their school children.
The two Hextable residents who had plots in Swanley were able to keep their plots under an agreement between Swanley Town Council and the newly formed Hextable Parish Council. One has decided not to renew. Amazingly, when you look at the comments of Hextable councillors at the start of this saga - Independent councillor Dee Morris said "it's outrageous the council could do this to the poor woman. She's been here for 11 years!" - Hextable Parish Council has just given the other allotmentholder notice to quit. And yes, Cllr Morris is one of the councillors who took that decision.
Councillor Ian Rashbrook
Deputy Leader, Swanley Town Council
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Thanks for the info Ian. ;D ;D ;D
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Yes,some really good news and sadly some bad as you say.
Parish councils....would not give you tuppence for them..............The one round my way is straight out of Vicar of Dibley and they all think they are God Almighty.
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Local councils have the power to compuslary purchase land for allotments, so why dont you do that Ian?
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And indeed compulsorily rent it, which is the NSALG's preferred option. Council's will whinge that they don't have the cash to buy land (though it's a feeble excuse because providing sufficient allotments is a duty and not something a council can decide not to do), but because they can rent farmland at an agricultural rate there aren't many parish councils who couldn't find suitable and affordable land if they wanted to.
Ian, credit to you for what you're doing, and for engaging publicly on A4A. It's more than my town councillors do.
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Just to put in a good word for Parish Councils - they are not all bad, our councillors are very conscientious and go to a lot of trouble to improve our village. They work very hard for no reward.
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Hi small, in your village does everyone who wants one have as big an allotment as they want?
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Ishard and Unwashed,
Thanks for your posts. If compulsory purchase / renting was the way to meet the remaining unmet demand for allotments in Swanley, then that's what we almost certainly would do. However, the area without allotments - St Mary's ward - is heavily built up. There is open land nearby but it is on the other side of the near motorway standard A20 Swanley By-pass and is therefore not accessible. And a large swathe of the land is not picturesque countryside but somewhat less attractive gravel extraction pits. The most suitable piece of land is the former school playing fields. As they're already in public ownership it should be a simple matter of transferring the land from Kent County Council to Swanley Town Council. We'd then pick up the ongoing cost of managing the site. The problem is simply one of overcoming the inertia of Kent County Council. They're not against it happening, they just move at the pace of a lethargic snail.
Further south, in Christchurch ward, it is possible to cross the A20 and the allotments there are located on the other side of the A20 on land owned by Swanley Council but actually in neighbouring Crockenhill Parish.
And now that I've mentioned Crockenhill, the parish council there, who are always a pleasure to deal with, do have a large amount of land for allotments and vacant plots that they would be delighted to see people take up.
Ian Rashbrook,
Labour councillor for St Mary's ward, Swanley
Deputy Leader, Swanley Town Council
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Ian,has crockenhill advertised those vacant plots.The reason I ask is that when I came to this area the allotment here had several vacant plots.I asked the parish council to advertise them and they were soon filled up.
Some parish councils may be fine but the one we have is self serving and inefficient.
After giving some initial help with the allotment they do not want to know now.
I won't bore you with the details but you have to speak as you find.
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Maybe this post should now be called Horrible Hextable Parish Council as I have found out today that they want to throw the scouts of their allotment in Hextable Gardens, the 6th Swanley Scouts have been sharing the scout hut withe Hextable scouts for some time after the Swanley scout hut was burned down a while ago and they started an informal allotment along side there shared hut in Hextable Gardens but now the Hextable Parish Council are going to throw them off this informal Allotment. Cllr D Morris states in her letter to the newsshopper Jan. 20. 2010 that "the village has plenty of land in Lower road, hextable park or the heritage gardens for Allotment" Well if that is the case why are Hextable Parish Council not using this land to provide Allotments instead of giving notice to their residents and the scouts who want allotments ?
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Why are Hextable Parish Council doing that? Does the Scout Association lease the garden or just the scout hut?
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I suspect it is because now that they have broken their agreement with Swanley Town Council, they want the Scout plot for the plotholder who used to garden in Swanley, but I do not really know as my information is coming from recent press letters in the newsshopper, my guess is from reading those press letters that Hextable Parish Council do not want to use the land they have as one section of the land is a park, and the land down Lower road is a football ground in winter and a cricket pavilion in summer, which would only leave the Hextable Heritage Gardens where the Scout hut is and apart from the informal Allotment Garden used by the scouts, these gardens are mainly used by dog walkers it is also the Hextable Parish Council offices, I do not know what the arrangements are regarding the lease of the scouts hut or garden, But I think it is unfair to treat the scouts in this way,
Perhaps that Swanley Town Councillor will be able to answer the question regarding the lease, It looks like the scouts will not only have lost their former home, but now are going to lose their Allotment as well
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Sorry. I don't know what the arrangement is between the Scout Group and Hextable Parish Council.
However, I can say that Swanley Town Council is asking Hextable Parish Council to reconsider its decision to give notice to its resident using the allotment site in Swanley. That follows a meeting of Swanley's Environment Committee on Wednesday night.
Cllr Ian Rashbrook
Deputy Leader, Swanley Town Council
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And a large swathe of the land is not picturesque countryside but somewhat less attractive gravel extraction pits
We are on the site of reclaimed gravel extraction. The soil is rather gravelly but does does not seem to be presenting any problems. Thought it has not been used for gravel for many years.
With nature reserves on three sides it is stunningly attractive.
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This forum site is supposed to be used for the benefit of people to discuss topics of interest regarding allotments not for Swanley Councillors to use for their grubby little labour politics. The truth of the matter is that – of course Swanley want Mrs Ford to stay because they are getting Hextable Council to fork out over £300 per year for the lease of the two sites – do any of you who read this pay that much for your allotments? Hextable have been very good to Mrs Ford by paying this to help her over the transition period. they didn't have to pay a penny and I’m sure that as soon as they have their allotments sorted out Mrs Ford will be the first to be offered one. As far as the allotment which the scouts use I drive by this to work and it has not been cultivated for some considerable length of time. As a matter of interest the labour leader of Swanley Council, Councillor Woodbridge has an allotment in Dartford and I bet Dartford don’t charge him £150 per year.
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I think Swanley Town Council want Mrs Ford to stay because of the failure of Hextable Council to provide her with a plot, Swanley town Council is a very pro Allotment and at it's recent meeting of the Environment Committee it resolved to ask its Council to look at providing even more Allotments, Swanley Council as already increased the number of Allotments earlier this year and the man who pushed this forward was Cllr Woodbridge and he would not have been able to do this if he had a plot in Swanley, because he would have had to declare an interest and leave, that same Cllr Woodbridge as been an allotment holder in Dartford long before he was a Councillor and he has Chairman of his allotment site,which is self-managed, he gets free manure, free woodchip, free timber for raised beds and free Labour from Kent probation to help keep the site tidy and help disabled and older gardeners to carry on Gardening, I only wish we had him on our site in Bexleyheath, It is a shame that ill health will mean that he wll have to give up his allotment soon and that will be a great loss to the local allotment movement, if you want this forum to discuss politics then you should not be going on about grubby little labour politics because as far as I can see it seems Labour Swanley Council provides Allotments while independent Hextable does NOT provide allotments, discussing who provides Allotments and who doe's not surely must be a matter of interest to all allotment holders! I see your name is I want an allotment well if you are serious about having an Allotment Crockenhill Parish Council have a few ready to take tenants as does tredegar allotments in Dartford or you could wait and see what other Councils do about providing more allotments, wish you every success in finding a plot soon
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Phew!!!!
Welcome to A4A, appleman.
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She's a victim, nothing less. I could understand handing the plot to a local after she finished with it, but to take away the land she has transformed is criminal.
What a pathetic bunch of pratts!........ :P
exactly what i was going to write after reading all the comments but you summed it
up perfectly. these councillors don't have the faintest idea how much work people put in to get there plots sorted
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Some Councillors do and I know a lot of Councillors who have plots and you often seem them digging and planting, so those I know of in Bexley, Dartford and Swanley do understand the amount of work that goes on so lets hope that the Hextable Council reconsiders it's withdrawal of the lease and allows this lady to stay, I think it would be in the long term interest of all Hextable residents if Hextable had its own allotments and then the problem would be solved for Mrs Ford, but there still remains the scout problem who have been asked to leave thier informal "Allotment" in Hextable by Hextable Council. the bit about all this I don't get is that in the local press an Hextable Councillor says they have the land so I cannot understand why Hextable don't just get its own allotment site? Lets hope they do soon and we can all get back to talking about Apples and veg and all those sort of gardening things,
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Well done Mr Appleman, you’re right, Swanley Town Council is very pro Allotments, so much so that when they ran Hextable, which they did until the break a couple of years ago, they did not provide one site for the Hextable residents and as you can see the very most Hextable residents got out of Swanley was a measly two plots. Of course Hextable Council is trying to make up to its residents what was greatly lacking from Swanley whilst they were in charge. They have only been going a couple of years I think and from what I hear they aren’t doing too bad.We could go on about this all night but you haven’t answered the Question – do you pay over £150 a year for your plot? – If not perhaps you’d like to help out with a donation. I’ll find out the address of the parish office where you can send it if you like!
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Why haven't Hextable Parish Council created an allotment site of their own? Two years is more than enough time.
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I expect they have had a lot of other mess that they have inherited from Swanley and if you care to read back you will find your answer there.
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I suspect the reason why Hextable Parish Council has not provided Allotments for it's residents is because of the cost of setting up an Allotment site, Hextable Councillors promised that if they left Swanley Town Council the Hextable Council tax would always be lower than Swanley's, having said that, Hextable P.C. should have set up it's own Allotment site by now as they have had two years to do so and Cllr D Morris from Hextable as already said in the newsshopper that Hextable has the land for an Allotment site, It should be remembered here that it is Hextable Parish Council who have given Mrs Ford notice to quit her Allotment and not Swanley Town Council. It is the same Hextable Council who now want the Scouts to leave thier unofficial Allotment they created along side thier Hut in Hextable gardens and I now understand that Hextable P.C. want to throw out the scouts from thier hut in Hextable gardens, despite them having a 7 year lease to be there, to answer the question posed by newbie, no I do not pay £150 a year for my plot its £35 a year And niether does Mrs Ford pay £150 a year, She pays £20 a year the same as all the other Swanley Allotment holders, My understanding of this £150 is what Swanley charge Hextable for the lease of the allotment, What Swanley did was to work out all the costs involved in providing allotments and divided this cost between the number of plots and it works out at £150 a plot and Swanley Council, then charged this to Hextable as it seemed unfair that Swanley's taxpayers should subsidise another Council. but that is getting off the main theme here which is that Mrs Ford will be without an Allotment because Hextable P.C. have failed to provide for her to have an Allotment and we should all be writing to Hextable P.C. and the local papers asking Hextable to provide Allotments for its residents.
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I personally do not think that either Hextable nor Swanley seem to be very reasonable. It is not surprising that they ended up having a divorce!
Swanley apparently seem to have been subsidising the Hextable allotments for many years so it does not seem unreasonable to me that they continue with one the other way in the interim. It is totally unreasonable for it to cost £150 per allotment plot in costs.
This whole discussion is unseemly and childish, haven't these councils got better things to do than try and score petty points off each other. Is all this worth the upset than this must be causing to the one allotment holder and the scouts?
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I agree Digeroo. They're behaving like waring hillbillies.
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I agree Digeroo. They're behaving like waring hillbillies.
This is why I loathe politicians, it is all about the party and party members not the public that they are supposed to serve.
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It may well be, but are you going to write to BOTH councils and ask them to find a way forward ? wether the Councils have made mistakes or not, the most important thing here, surely is to find Mrs Ford an alllotment plot that she can grow her fruit and veg on, is it not ? So if we all agree that is what we would all like to see, then the way forward I think is to get her own Parish Council of Hextable to provide an allotment site in Hextable for her and other like minded residents. Hextable Council have stated they have land avalible for allotments, so I say come on Hextable Council rise above this argument with Swanley and start your own Allotment site, I and most of the allotment holders here in Bexleyheath are going to write to the Hextable Council urging them to find an allotment for this lady and the more of you who write the more chance of finding a solution for Mrs Ford, the address for Hextable Council is The Parish office,Heritage centre,Hextable, Kent, the more of us who write the more chance this lady will have of getting a plot.
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I do get a bit exasperated by the "you're all the same", "you're all in it for yourselves" type comments, the most recent version being "it is all about the party and party members not the public that they are supposed to serve".
Very clearly Swanley Town Council, which does provide allotments and recently increased the number oif them so everyone on our waiting list could have a plot, is not the same as Hextable Parish Council which choses not to provide any allotments. And the Swanley residents who benefited from the allotments are not party members - they are very much members of the public that we are supposed to and do serve.
There is a waiting list again because more people have signed up and we'll provide more plots once we have been able to secure an appropriate site (Kent County Council are the stumbling block as they want to build houses on the former school playing fields that we'd like to use - but we're working on that). If anyone wants to help us provide extra allotments a few letters to Cllr Paul Carter, the Leader of Kent County Council, wouldn't go amiss.
Cllr Ian Rashbrook
Chair of Policy and Resources and Labour councillor for St Mary's ward
Swanley Town Council
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Is it just me? But does anyone else want to say "Kids, please give it a break..." and "stop being like a dog with a bone..."
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I think it's about time this thread was locked; it's just an endless argument with nothing being added by either side.