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General => Assisted Gardening => Topic started by: GRACELAND on October 29, 2010, 14:38:23

Title: Please Read and Help
Post by: GRACELAND on October 29, 2010, 14:38:23
In the October Spending Review the Government announced that they are going to stop paying Disability Living Allowance (DLA) mobility component to disabled people living in residential care.
DLA mobility component is designed to help meet the extra costs many disabled people face in doing everyday things, such as going to the shops, visiting family and socialising with friends. It pays for things like a powered wheelchair, accessible taxis or a Motability car and supports people who live in residential care to do many of the things that others take for granted.
Without DLA mobility component thousands of disabled people will be left trapped in their homes.
Write to your MP to ask them to call on the Minister for Disability, Maria Miller, to keep DLA mobility component for disabled adults in residential care.

Here you all are please send to your MP


Dear

I am writing to find out what action you are taking to challenge the Government’s decision to stop paying Disability Living Allowance (DLA) mobility component to disabled people living in residential care.

DLA mobility component is designed to help meet the extra costs many disabled people face in doing everyday things, such as going to the shops, visiting family and socialising with friends. For people who live in residential care it provides support to pay for things like a powered wheelchair, accessible taxis or a Motability car.

The cuts to public spending were meant to be fair, and to protect those on the lowest incomes, but this change will hit just one group – disabled people in residential care, and it will take away the vital financial support that they need to be active and independent. This cannot be right. Disabled people living in residential care should not be deprived of the same rights that everyone else takes for granted.

'Jos'
Jos lives in a residential care home and after his care fees are paid, all he receives is his DLA mobility component and £22 a week Personal Expenses Allowance. Jos uses his DLA mobility component to pay for his car and it covers all his servicing, insurance, MOT and fuel costs. Jos spends most weekends at home with his family and relies on the car most days. They use it for trips to the theatre cinema, shopping, visiting the Wildlife Trust nearby and for visits to friends and relatives. Having the car also means Jos can pursue his hobby of carriage driving as well as enjoying more everyday activities, such as taking garden waste to the tip! Losing DLA mobility component will mean losing his car, no longer being able to take part in any of these activities, and losing his independence.

Please can you write to the Minister for Disabled People, Maria Miller MP, and call on her to keep DLA mobility component for disabled adults in residential care. I would also like to know what action you personally are taking to challenge this decision.

I look forward to hearing from you.



Yours
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: GRACELAND on October 29, 2010, 15:56:27
bump :)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 04, 2010, 11:44:14
There is nothing like hitting those people who are least able to help themselves.   ::)  >:(

People are usually a bit reluctant to write to their MP's but there are often petitions that can be completed and sent to Downing Street and they can be effective.  Hopefully one will come out shortly. 

The problem is that the Government is made up of millionaires who haven't a clue how the other half lives.   :(
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: mat on November 04, 2010, 11:58:54
trips to the theatre, cinema, shopping, visiting the Wildlife Trust nearby....    ...Having the car also means Jos can pursue his hobby of carriage driving

Without sounding harsh... I cannot afford to do those things every week... the cinema is a rare treat for me... and the theatre... well, that's once every few years...

When my late beloved Gran was in a care home, Mum couldn't believe the payments she still received for her, as everything was pre-paid for her in the home...

I agree people need some of their own money when in residental care, but the country is in a dire state, and we all need to make cuts, else we'll go bankrupt like Greece...  perhaps weekly cinema, theatre trips and carriage driving are a luxury...

Sorry
mat

Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: asj on November 04, 2010, 12:06:28
Have to agree with Mat.

Sorry
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: lewic on November 04, 2010, 12:23:04
Code: [Select]
perhaps weekly cinema, theatre trips and carriage driving are a luxury...


I am shocked and depressed by comments like this. There is plenty of money to go round, it is just that now it is going to line the pockets of the rich. Thatcher's government started the rot, with privatisation and the sell off of council housing. Blair followed, wasting billions on foreign wars. Pull out of all these countries we are meddling with, and spend our cash on the needy here. And tax the rich til it hurts!
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 04, 2010, 12:48:10
Mat, Graceland's post didn't say that Jos went to the theatre or cinema every week.  He may only have gone every few years for all we know.  The point that was being made was that because of Jos's disability, he needed a car.

I used to work with people with learning disabilities and they need money to go out, perhaps to a panto at Christmas or out for a drink, to a zoo, a wildlife park or a trip to the seaside.  Even to buy an ice cream.  Some people are so severely disabled that life stuck indoors all day would be intolerable.  

I have had times in my life when I have been really hard up but at least I could walk, didn't need help with washing and dressing and was not stuck in a wheelchair all day.  Some of the people that can lose their DLA have been disabled since birth and we should all ensure that they lead as good a life as possible given the situation that they are in.  

This is what Mencap have to say about the new proposals:
http://www.salfordonline.com/disability.php?func=viewdetails&vdetails=23885
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: picman on November 04, 2010, 13:09:56
I also agree with Mat, too many handouts...
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Poppy Mole on November 04, 2010, 13:19:44
Sorry - I think that once again it is just a paper selling story & won't be anywhere as severe as they are making out, yes some people will lose their allowances BUT they will be the ones who don't either need or properly qualify for them.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 15:46:52
Should we not as a society want to be able to provide the very best in life for people so unfortunate to be in this situation?

I find it quite depressing that this is viewed as a handout.

Yes ,in care to be able to go out is a good thing,As Pauline says most of us can take advantage of life's small pleasures.to go walking,visit a friend maybe.

I want to belong to a society where we endeavour to do the best possible for these people.

Life is so much more than being stuck indoors 24/7

The way we are going we will be saying The Workhouse is acceptable  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: mat on November 04, 2010, 16:26:41
The way we are going we will be saying The Workhouse is acceptable 

Come on... there's a BIG difference between the workhouse... having enough money to run a car to visit friends... and feeling everyone has the right to regular cinema, theatre and carriage driving trips on other people's salaries... 

When the economy is strong, it's not a problem; but many of us have lost our jobs and have had to tighten our belts to survive, perhaps others are just waking up to the fact Labour have left the country in heavy debt.

Like Poppy Mole, I believe a lot of hype is created by media, and those who need to money will justifiably get it, but those who have been working the system to gain a nice little life thank you on others salaries, will find they can no longer do so.

Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: grawrc on November 04, 2010, 16:38:36
I agree that, as a society, we should protect the most vulnerable, but surely families have a responsibility here too? And surely, just like individuals, governments should live within their incomes and balance their books?

e.g. Much as I'd like to take the family on holiday, I know we can't because  there isn't enough money to make ends meet. I know how good a holiday would be for all of us but it's out of the question. So we don't go. But go to the park and play football and go on the swings because that costs nothing.
(Edited to say: I made this up - it is just to illustrate the kind of thing I mean)

Many families care for their vulnerable members at home. Putting someone in a care home shouldn't mean that they cease to exist as far as their family and friends are concerned.  

Sorry I realise that this is only one aspect of this whole question but - and I say this as a left-wing liberal - this government has some very hard decisions to take. The problems were not, in my view, solely caused by the previous government but to a large extent by world events, but the effect is the same.  Before Thatcher we had a strong manufacturing industry which no longer exists. The Chinese now supply much of what we buy. Regeneration will be hard. We can no longer expect things to be as they were before. We have an enormous deficit to be repaid. Over time we are all going to feel the effects of the cutbacks and I think there will be many more before things get better. Let's not continue the blame culture. There are some good government decisions and some not so good ones. I think we all need to stand up for what we believe in and start a much greater dialogue with our representatives so that they become more aware and more proactive. But let's not be confrontational. There is no black and white but a great deal of grey.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: kt. on November 04, 2010, 17:10:37
Have to agree with Mat.

Sorry

Same here.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Melbourne12 on November 04, 2010, 17:38:48
Code: [Select]
perhaps weekly cinema, theatre trips and carriage driving are a luxury...


I am shocked and depressed by comments like this. ....... And tax the rich til it hurts!

So, as I understand it, you're quite prepared for people to be hurt.  But you'd like it to be someone else.

I'm out of work right now, as a result of this recession.  My much reduced income is still taxed.  I don't think it should be spent on subsidising "Jos" and his carriage driving.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: gp.girl on November 04, 2010, 18:39:53
£22 a week to run a car seems a bit cheap so I'll guess we all pay for his road tax, the modifications and replacement every three years or less.......

Sorry folks if it matters that much to the family put a bit in the kitty each and pay for it yourselves rather than asking others to pay for it.

Though the carriage driving would be provided by a charity so he doesn't actually have an 'expensive hobby' in that way.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 18:44:42
If the day ever dawned when I begrudged already disadvantaged people a trip to the cinema or the theatre I think I would really need to have a serious look at how cynical I had become.

Great to see Mr Cameron has employed his own film maker...my my,he really knows how to budget.  ::)

Sorry folks but I think some of you are talking a load of old cobblers.   :P
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: grawrc on November 04, 2010, 18:56:59
Den you are all heart!!

As to  the boy  David, could you please hive me a link for that?
 I'd like to know the what, the why and  the how before judging what he has done.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 19:02:49
Happy to oblige Anne  :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-miliband-attacks-david-cameron-over-vanity-staff-2124582.html
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: mat on November 04, 2010, 19:04:21
If the day ever dawned when I begrudged already disadvantaged people a trip to the cinema or the theatre I think I would really need to have a serious look at how cynical I had become.

well, I am glad you feel you can afford to pay for others theatre trips.  I cannot.  I know what it is like to not have enough money for food for the week... but no, I didn't get any support because I had a mortgage and a salary, so was not on benefits.  my other half had buggered off to marry someone else.  I didn't have a car as I couldn't afford to run one.  All my salary went on the small house, house bills and a little left over for food...  At one point I lost my £20 note for my weekly food shopping... I had NO money for food that week and survived on toast...  At no time did I expect others to pay out for me.  I got out of the situation by luckily getting a better job and relocating, but I am now out of work due to a company closing the department.  I have had to tighten my belt again, and will now have to sell my house I tried so hard to keep. probably for less than I paid for it...

If someone is in a residential home where everything is paid for them, and has family they want to visit, and wants a car to be able to be used "most days" then surely the family should help pay for the car...

I have no problem with helping the disadvantaged with food and a roof over their head... but I think sometimes people nowadays seem to have their priorities wrong... and feel that luxuries are essentials... when did theatre trips become essential?

interesting debate... 

p.s. this is a debate about the original topic... not on political expenses which is a different kettle of fish... and ALL parties spend money on things we don't agree with...  I believe labour were criticised for some strange expenses...
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 19:09:53
I too could tell you a similar story and I know what hard times are believe me.

However it never honestly occurred to me that because I was in a fix I begrudged making peoples lives that little bit brighter.

In my experience ,life makes you travel many roads and some of them are no more than dirt tracks but things do turn around eventually.I wish you well.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Sinbad7 on November 04, 2010, 19:14:34
I was just going to post a reply when I read Betula's and then went and read the article on Cameron's film maker.  I think it would have been fairer if you had stated that he was going to cut the communications budget by two thirds and stated what the former PM had spent on an image consultant and on photographs and video's which all of these things come out of the communications budget the same as Cameron's film maker is.

Now to my original post:

A bit off topic I know but I have always wondered why do the elderly in residential homes still get the fuel payment?

Every year my mum received it they gave it to me.  I could never figure why, when I said to the home you keep it they said no it's yours. Imagine what that is costing the tax payer. What a waste of tax payers money.

Maybe things like that should be sorted and the Jo's of this world could have it.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 19:16:24
Yes I will give you that one,it does seem very odd.  :)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 19:24:06
Whoever holds power it is a waste of money.

If they want image consultants let them pay for it out of their own pocket. :(
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: mat on November 04, 2010, 19:28:28
Yes, and why do all the retired folk living in Spain, etc, still receive their winter fuel allowances when they don't even need heating in some cases???

And why do all elderly receive bus passes that allow them to use buses anywhere in england as holidays?  I think bus passes should be means tested and for their locality.  Up near where I live, the coastliner from York to Scarborough is usually full of people using their passes as holidays (obvious - they have suitcases with them...) which means I've seen local people with pushchairs denied access to the bus as there's no room...

and why do hospital departments all do their ordering of supplies seperately?  why is there no centralised ordering system which each department completes, so as to gain bulk discounts?

I could go on...

I was hoping the current cuts would mean efficiency savings... just as private businesses have had to make... rather than just cuts to front line services which are "easy to make" and make good headlines... and the officials who are in the job because it makes them feel imprtant are still protected...

Oh, how I'd love to get into some of the Govt. departments and make some efficiency savings...

Thanks Sinbad for that comment on comms expenses - the media are often one sided in their reporting... lies, d**n lies and statistics comes to mind...
 
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: grawrc on November 04, 2010, 19:50:47
Happy to oblige Anne  :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ed-miliband-attacks-david-cameron-over-vanity-staff
Thanks Den! I've read the article and it has left me with more  questions than answers. The only thing I do know is that contracted employees tend to be cheaper than freelance. I'm going to probe a bit more next week. (very busy until next Tuesday)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: gp.girl on November 04, 2010, 19:54:03
I was hoping the current cuts would mean efficiency savings... just as private businesses have had to make... rather than just cuts to front line services which are "easy to make" and make good headlines... and the officials who are in the job because it makes them feel imprtant are still protected...

Yeah like my place of work. Redundency Tuesdays got to be a very sorry joke with the third round....no warning just rumors followed by the visit from my boss to explain. And if you think he knew what was happening think again, one department manager came back off holiday to find 3 members of staff gone, when he went there was a vacancy advertised  ???
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: grawrc on November 04, 2010, 20:02:22
Yeah like my place of work. Redundency Tuesdays got to be a very sorry joke with the third round....no warning just rumors followed by the visit from my boss to explain. And if you think he knew what was happening think again, one department manager came back off holiday to find 3 members of staff gone, when he went there was a vacancy advertised  ???
Hey but that is down to bad management, not the government as such.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Mr Smith on November 04, 2010, 20:10:44
 Mat, I still have to pay NI when I have paid well over my fortythree years contributions and I'm  still paying in to the system when NI contributions are now only for thirtyears, I want a rebate ;D,  in my case I think I'm entitled to a free bus pass to swan round on my hols and a winter fuel payment. Ever heard of ESPO?they are an organisation of five counties, Lei, Lincs, Norfolk, Cam and Warwickshire they buy in bulk for the schools, colledges, old folks homes etc for what they are responsible for in their own counties with a distribution centre in Leicester, agree a system like this could also apply to the national health service, I would not like to see any disabled person suffer from the cut backs unlike myself who in the new year will be made redundant from my job because of the cut backs, but not being one to sit back and moan about it  I can guarantee I will find myself a job even at sixtythree,
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Martin T on November 04, 2010, 20:14:43
The only good thing about paying my taxes is the fact a tiny percentage of it is going towards helping people less fortunate than myself.

You should be worried about the huge amount that is wasted and not begrudging OAPs a bus pass!

All the best to you Graceland.

Martin.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: mat on November 04, 2010, 20:20:40
You should be worried about the huge amount that is wasted and not begrudging OAPs a bus pass!

I think giving pensioners who still earn so much that they still pay 40% tax, a free bus pass, is a waste.  I know pensioners who cannot believe they still receive a free pass, as they are relatively rich, but as they do, they use it, and travel all over the place with it as day trips out...
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: gp.girl on November 04, 2010, 20:24:11
That would be to pay for those who don't contribute ie the disabled people who you wouldn't like to see affected by the current cuts......

Only 2 years to go for the free bus pass  :)

And before anyone says disabled people work, yes they do but probably not if they live in a care home.

Weed Farmer - Like the family recieving £95,000 a year? That's twice the average wage so it really annoys me because 2/3 of it is going to someone better off than me.....
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: grawrc on November 04, 2010, 20:42:40
I am 61. I have a free bus pass for Scotland. I have used it twice since 30/8/09 to travel into the centre of Edinburgh. I would have paid £3 or £4 pounds minimum to park in the centre of Edinburgh plus whatever running my car cost. If I paid for the bus it would be £1.20 each way. Who's subsidising who?
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 04, 2010, 20:46:37
What a disgrace Anne,you could have walked it or at least thumbed a lift . :)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: manicscousers on November 04, 2010, 22:09:13
Rod stewart was saying he has a free bus pass  ::)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Melbourne12 on November 04, 2010, 22:57:56
Betula, you normally talk good sense, but I think you've got it wrong on this one.

No-one, certainly no-one on this thread, and least of all me, begrudges the mythical "Jos" his trips to the cinema.  Quite genuinely, as far as I'm concerned, he can split his days between hobnobbing with Prince Philip at the four-in-hand trials and fishing for salmon on the best Scottish lochs.  Out of season he might like to go to Ascot for the occasional day out.  And in the evenings he can go to the opera or perhaps a private soiree to be entertained by a string quartet.  All of these things have disabled access, so he certainly isn't excluded in any way.

I have no jealousy about people who do that sort of thing at all.  Best of luck, say I.

It's just that I don't want to pay his dues.

Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 05, 2010, 00:13:56
What if it was revealed that "Jos" is a paraplegic or has had some other terrible form of disability since birth, is it fair to take away his DLA because you don't want your taxes to go towards helping him?

I don't think Betula has got it wrong as she obviously shows she cares for others.

The problem is that there are several degrees of disablement.  I am registered as disabled because I cannot walk very far even with the special shoes made for me at the hospital.  I also have spinal problems.  I don't qualify for benefits though because my disabilities are not severe enough.    

At the other extreme there are people that are very severely disabled and many have been from birth.  They need to have some money for clothes, entertainment and anything else they need.  How can it be right to take money away from these people? Yet this is what the Government is proposing:

From October 2012, the Department of Work and Pensions will no longer pay the DLA mobility component to those who are in state-funded residential care for more than 28 days.

People who have profound or multiple leaning disabilities are most likely to be living in residential care homes over a long period of time if they are not living at the family home. The mobility allowance enables people who are in care homes get the support they need to get out and about.

Mencap, which supports 1.5 million people with a learning disability in the UK, claims the cut, announced in the Government's Comprehensive Spending Review, "affects the independence of those who are already the most discriminated against".

Mark Goldring, Mencap's chief executive, said: "This cut will take us back to the days when people were left in care homes with just four walls for company and will undo decades of progress.

"Mencap is calling for the Government to urgently review this proposal and prevent this devastating blow to some of the UK's most vulnerable people."
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 05, 2010, 00:42:18
I think Mencap have said it far better than my feeble efforts.

Melbourne you have lost me on this one ??

I was thinking more a trip to the local flicks or perhaps the Hippodrome .

You obviously move in more elevated circles than I   ;D
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: daveyboi on November 05, 2010, 05:29:26
Jos spends most weekends at home with his family and relies on the car most days. They use it for trips to the theatre cinema, shopping, visiting the Wildlife Trust nearby and for visits to friends and relatives. Having the car also means Jos can pursue his hobby of carriage driving as well as enjoying more everyday activities, such as taking garden waste to the tip! Losing DLA mobility component will mean losing his car, no longer being able to take part in any of these activities, and losing his independence.



I just question the family use of the car!
From the way this reads it says to me that Jos is the taxi service for the family.

It automatically got my back up in the anti mode!

Maybe it is just badly written and not the true picture they were trying to get across.

Whilst trying not to appear mercenary for the long term disabled I do wonder if there should be some form of productive work they could partake in and therefore be able to pay for these things even if it is only a partial contribution.
Maybe the answer should be that just the cost of adapting a vehicle could be paid for by the state.

As to the other things in this topic such as bus passes and the winter fuel allowance I think rather than the expensive means testing they just should not be paid to anyone who is still in employment is the simple answer.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Melbourne12 on November 05, 2010, 09:22:16
What if it was revealed that "Jos" is a paraplegic or has had some other terrible form of disability since birth, is it fair to take away his DLA because you don't want your taxes to go towards helping him?


But it isn't so revealed.  Quite clearly, we should help people "according to their needs".  The paraplegic will need a lot more help than someone with an arthritic knee.

I'm beginning to wonder if the letter that was quoted in the original post might be a hoax, actually intended to reduce sympathy for people like "Jos".
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 05, 2010, 10:06:28
Quite clearly, we should help people "according to their needs".  The paraplegic will need a lot more help than someone with an arthritic knee.

Someone with an arthritic knee would not get DLA unless they defrauded the system by making it appear that they are worse than they are.  There are people that do that and yes, they should be weeded out.  Let us not forget those that earn millions and yet practice tax evasion or tax avoidance.  If yhey paid their dues this country would have plenty of money to help those less fortunate.

Whilst trying not to appear mercenary for the long term disabled I do wonder if there should be some form of productive work they could partake in and therefore be able to pay for these things even if it is only a partial contribution.

When I worked for Mencap, some of the less disabled people did have jobs and this is encouraged.  Fortunately employers such as Tesco will take on people with learning disabilities though what they can do is very limited. 

However, there are an awful lot of people in Mencap homes who are severely mentally and or physically disabled.  They need constant care and there is no way they could do any kind of work.  Yet these are the people that will suffer from having their "pocket money" ie their DLA taken from them. 

In a civilised society we should take care of those people who are less able to help themselves. 
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: daveyboi on November 05, 2010, 19:27:27
They need constant care and there is no way they could do any kind of work.  Yet these are the people that will suffer from having their "pocket money" ie their DLA taken from them.  

It is only the  mobility allowance of the DLA that is being considered for removal

If they can drive they could most likely do some form of work. If someone else is driving them then a contribution to the necessary conversion of the driver's vehicle I do agree with but not supplying them a free car which they use for their own use as well.

I know that someone will most likely come back and say they could get different people to drive them about but I would guess that would not be the norm and maybe the care home could have a car or two for use.

The trouble is the system gets abused hence the removal.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: jennym on November 05, 2010, 20:06:07
I do feel confused about how this type of benefit is allocated, and know from personal experience how different some awards are.
I know a lady aged 82, with no savings left through no fault of her own. Does not own a house. Worked all her life. Paid full national insurance contributions. Widowed young. Never claimed any social security benefit. Now, due to a severe stroke, she is in a care home, expenses paid by a combination of the majority of her pension and a contribution from social services to make up the shortfall. She is left with £8 per week to cover toiletries, clothes, newspapers, sweets and outings. Obviously this sum doesn't cover these things, and her family, who are on a low income themselves, help by buying what they can for her. Her opinion is that she appreciates the care given to her, and thinks it's marvellous that she doesn't have to pay for her food and lodging, but wishes she had a little more cash to spend.
There are other poor souls in the same care home that don't appear to have relatives, and they have to do without.
Let's count our blessings and try to be honest with ourselves about what we'd do in the same situation, and at the same time try to limit the effect of those who do exploit the system.  I think we should judge only by what we truly know about folk's circumstances, not by what we read in the press.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: gp.girl on November 05, 2010, 20:07:08
Jos spends most weekends at home with his family and relies on the car most days. They use it for trips to the theatre cinema, shopping, visiting the Wildlife Trust nearby and for visits to friends and relatives. Having the car also means Jos can pursue his hobby of carriage driving as well as enjoying more everyday activities, such as taking garden waste to the tip! Losing DLA mobility component will mean losing his car, no longer being able to take part in any of these activities, and losing his independence.



I just question the family use of the car!
From the way this reads it says to me that Jos is the taxi service for the family.

It automatically got my back up in the anti mode!

Maybe it is just badly written and not the true picture they were trying to get across.

Whilst trying not to appear mercenary for the long term disabled I do wonder if there should be some form of productive work they could partake in and therefore be able to pay for these things even if it is only a partial contribution.
Maybe the answer should be that just the cost of adapting a vehicle could be paid for by the state.

As to the other things in this topic such as bus passes and the winter fuel allowance I think rather than the expensive means testing they just should not be paid to anyone who is still in employment is the simple answer.


That's a dangerous move. 2 groups work after retirement, the happy at work, my nan worked part-time into her 80's and those that need to pay the bills.....

You do wonder about people though, taking waste to the tip is an everyday activity??? Not here, don't buy or waste enough, that's a behaviour of the rich and/or the wasteful.

Bad news it's normal for the family to have use of the car the government paid for, free parking, fuel and mileage is too much temptation for most people. And yes I've met at least one in my travels. Although using it for Taxi work and insurance fraud is taking selfishness to a new level.....
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 05, 2010, 20:41:23
It is only the  mobility allowance of the DLA that is being considered for removal

If they can drive they could most likely do some form of work. If someone else is driving them then a contribution to the necessary conversion of the driver's vehicle I do agree with but not supplying them a free car which they use for their own use as well.

I know that someone will most likely come back and say they could get different people to drive them about but I would guess that would not be the norm and maybe the care home could have a car or two for use.

The trouble is the system gets abused hence the removal.

I can assure you that none of the people I came across in Mencap homes would have been able to drive.  They had to pay for transport to their day centres, to visit family members or for any trips out.  They either paid the local authority for trips in a minibus, paid money to staff for taking them in their private cars or had to get a taxi.   Do you think that care homes which are run by charities or Local Authorities could afford cars for clients use?  

We had one lady with severe autism whose mother was in her 80's and lived miles away so having family call is not always an option.  Besides which, many of the people I supported liked to go home for the occasional weekend or at Christmas.  They also like to go on holiday too and could not do these things if their Mobility Allowance is taken away.

I can hear some of you now saying "Well I can't afford a holiday so why should these people be paid for out of my taxes?"  All I can say to that is that you should get out and go and meet some of these severely disabled people for if you did, you couldn't possibly continue to think the way that you do and would oppose the Government's proposal......unless of course, you really are that selfish and have no compassion.

gp girl, I have just seen your post.  Whether or not Jos should be entitled to his Mobility Allowance is not for you or I to decide.  We do not have all the facts and it may be fictitious anyway. 

What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: daveyboi on November 06, 2010, 09:15:59


................
What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   

I think we are all getting carried away with this.

Firstly DLA is only for people from 3 ?? to 65 years old.

At present the proposal is People who are in residential placements and receive the Mobility Component of Disability Living Allowance (DLA) will no longer be eligible for this.
It is not yet clear whether this applies to both adult and child DLA claimants.

Personal Budgets will be introduced and extended for children with special educational needs (SEN), support for children with disabilities, long-term health conditions and adult social care.

However the details of this have not yet been announced so maybe the whole issue maybe a non starter as a replacement could be in the pipeline.

I personally think that by the time all the government get all the people back into work that can work there will be much more money for those that are genuinely in need.

Having said all that UNTIL we know all the details I will happily sit on the fence on this issue
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Paulines7 on November 06, 2010, 10:38:25


................
What I am saying is that there are some seriously disabled people out there in homes whose life will be turned upside down by the taking away of their MA.  Try explaining that to many of the people with severe learning disabilities whose mental age could be 3 or 4.  Do you honestly think it can be right to disrupt the lives of these people?   
Firstly DLA is only for people from 3 ?? to 65 years old.

The people in the Mencap homes that I looked after were adults under 65 years of age.  I don't think Mencap would be concerned if it wasn't going to affect those that they care for, but as it stands at the moment, the Government propose to take the DLA MA from these people.

I just feel ashamed that the most vulnerable people in Society are being victimised and will suffer; people that perhaps have spent all their life in a wheelchair or a home because of their disabilities.  Let us not take away their trips to the pantomimes, circuses or wildlife parks which bring smiles on their faces.       
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 06, 2010, 10:50:41
I feel that way too Pauline.

I know many people have it tough at the moment and I feel for anybody in a bad situation but to cut out things like this is just shameful.

Penny pinching at its worse.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: gp.girl on November 06, 2010, 18:19:17
Last time I checked there is no-one to defend the working person, the disabled have a multimillion pound charity and the right look so will get the vote everytime. Watch DIY sos if you want proof.

If this country gets in really deep finantual trouble jos will get to suffer with all the rest of us.

Ask someone who has to use wonga.com to get a loan at 2000+ APR why it's important.

Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: PurpleHeather on November 17, 2010, 21:21:49
SO..When I am not feeling that my life is in my controll any more.

How many of you will agree that I should be allowed to simply fade awy and die?

By law we all have to suffer and rot. (granted some fight to the end with every display of courage and dignity) but I don't want to do that. ........I want to be treated to the same respectful end the RSPCA is permitted to extend to animals.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: The Gaffer on November 19, 2010, 21:07:04
Just to clarify what the issue is here...

If you are a disabled person of working age and you are living in residential care then your needs will be extremely high - basically if you didn't need pretty much constant support, then you wouldn't be in residential care in the first place. Someone with an "arthritic knee" will not be in a care home.

Residential care is also very expensive, so either you will have to pay the full costs (on average something like £1000 per week) to cover the costs, or if you can't then any money that you do have (in savings, or in income) will be taken to help pay the costs. You don't have a choice over whether the money is taken or not, it is automatically taken by the Council to help meet their costs. The only income that you are allowed to keep is what is called a 'personal expenses allowance' - which is just over £20 a week, and, if you are elligible, mobility component of DLA - which is either about £20 or about £50 a week, depending on which rate you receive. Councils are specifically excluded from being able to take that money.

So let's assume that any one of us had an accident tomorrow that left us needing 24 hour care, and we ended up living in residential care. Of course we'd know our lives had changed, but we'd probably want to keep doing at least some of the things that we do now - working, gardening, trip to the pub, occasional trip to the cinema, get out to see family and friends, maybe even a holiday. But if we are able to keep working, unless you earn more than about £1000 per week, then any income you make will be taken to fund your care - you won't actually get to keep any of it. And getting to work is going to be pretty tricky if you can't even afford the electric wheelchair you now need to move about independently.

Luckily there are schemes to allow you to use your DLA mobility component to get an electric wheelchair. Luckily you can use your DLA mobility component to occasionally pay for a taxi to get to the allotment. Luckily DLA mobility component can go towards funding a properly accessible car you can use to get around. Luckily DLA mobility component means that you can contribute to the care home running a regular minibus service. Luckily you can just about afford to buy something once in a while, because your DLA mobility means that you can cover your extra travel expenses and use your personal expenses allowance to get some clothes, or a Christmas present for someone in your family.

But from October 2012, you won't have that any more - because that's what this proposal means. You will have £20 a week to cover everything. You can't afford the electric wheelchair, because it costs over £1000. Even if you have the wheelchair, if there isn't a fully accessible bus near your home you can't really get anywhere on your own any more except by accessible taxi, which means your £20 is basically gone.

I guess you just give up on doing things independently any more. You just have to hope that you have a good care home that supports you well, or a family who will buy an accessible car that you can travel in and who will come round whenever you need. You just have to accept that you are now totally reliant on other people to go anywhere. You go out of the house when someone takes you, and that's it.

Being independent is a pretty big thing -  that's why life in prison is the harshest legal penalty we can impose. I'm not saying that this is the same as prison, of course it isn't, but I just hope that people understand what this change could mean for someone's independence, simply because they need to use residential care. And I hope they'll then agree that this really isn't a reasonable, fair or progressive cut. This is something that as a civilised, caring society, we just shouldn't be cutting.
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 19, 2010, 21:49:09
Well said   ;D
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: GRACELAND on November 24, 2010, 14:15:12
Just to clarify what the issue is here...

If you are a disabled person of working age and you are living in residential care then your needs will be extremely high - basically if you didn't need pretty much constant support, then you wouldn't be in residential care in the first place. Someone with an "arthritic knee" will not be in a care home.

Residential care is also very expensive, so either you will have to pay the full costs (on average something like £1000 per week) to cover the costs, or if you can't then any money that you do have (in savings, or in income) will be taken to help pay the costs. You don't have a choice over whether the money is taken or not, it is automatically taken by the Council to help meet their costs. The only income that you are allowed to keep is what is called a 'personal expenses allowance' - which is just over £20 a week, and, if you are elligible, mobility component of DLA - which is either about £20 or about £50 a week, depending on which rate you receive. Councils are specifically excluded from being able to take that money.

So let's assume that any one of us had an accident tomorrow that left us needing 24 hour care, and we ended up living in residential care. Of course we'd know our lives had changed, but we'd probably want to keep doing at least some of the things that we do now - working, gardening, trip to the pub, occasional trip to the cinema, get out to see family and friends, maybe even a holiday. But if we are able to keep working, unless you earn more than about £1000 per week, then any income you make will be taken to fund your care - you won't actually get to keep any of it. And getting to work is going to be pretty tricky if you can't even afford the electric wheelchair you now need to move about independently.

Luckily there are schemes to allow you to use your DLA mobility component to get an electric wheelchair. Luckily you can use your DLA mobility component to occasionally pay for a taxi to get to the allotment. Luckily DLA mobility component can go towards funding a properly accessible car you can use to get around. Luckily DLA mobility component means that you can contribute to the care home running a regular minibus service. Luckily you can just about afford to buy something once in a while, because your DLA mobility means that you can cover your extra travel expenses and use your personal expenses allowance to get some clothes, or a Christmas present for someone in your family.

But from October 2012, you won't have that any more - because that's what this proposal means. You will have £20 a week to cover everything. You can't afford the electric wheelchair, because it costs over £1000. Even if you have the wheelchair, if there isn't a fully accessible bus near your home you can't really get anywhere on your own any more except by accessible taxi, which means your £20 is basically gone.

I guess you just give up on doing things independently any more. You just have to hope that you have a good care home that supports you well, or a family who will buy an accessible car that you can travel in and who will come round whenever you need. You just have to accept that you are now totally reliant on other people to go anywhere. You go out of the house when someone takes you, and that's it.

Being independent is a pretty big thing -  that's why life in prison is the harshest legal penalty we can impose. I'm not saying that this is the same as prison, of course it isn't, but I just hope that people understand what this change could mean for someone's independence, simply because they need to use residential care. And I hope they'll then agree that this really isn't a reasonable, fair or progressive cut. This is something that as a civilised, caring society, we just shouldn't be cutting.
:D :D :D


WELL SAID 

Thank you

Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: betula on November 26, 2010, 21:46:48
Been listening today that Mr Cameron wants to spend two million pounds on surveying our level of happiness  ??

Strange but true........

So glad he has his priorities right. ::)
Title: Re: Please Read and Help
Post by: Digeroo on November 26, 2010, 22:00:42
My disabled daughter lives in a residential home and is threatened with loosing this allowance.  It is used for so many things.  Getting to hospital appointments, podiatry appointments, coming home for the weekend, transport on holiday, repairs to mobility equipment.  None of it is wasted and none of it is abused.  She cannot drive and she cannot just jump on a bus.  How will she get out and about?

If you have a special car you cannot use free parking unless the disabled person is in the vehicle.

The local authority are also trying to reduce the amount of fees they pay.  They seem to expect the staff to be on the minumum wage.  Yet she is very vulnerable and the staff need to be specially trained and need to be very capable.
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