Allotments 4 All

General => News => Topic started by: Admin aka Dan on December 10, 2003, 14:57:20

Title: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 10, 2003, 14:57:20

Hi All,

I'm in a bit of a pickle ....

The financial costs of hosting the site are growing, and I'm considering the best way of dealing with it.

I do not want to charge for any kind of membership, that is not fair - I want the site to be a free resource.

I also do not want intrusive advertising - pop up windows, adverts with sound, scrolling and all that.  It is annoying, and slows the site down - and hopefully it zips along most of the time - even on non broadband connections.

This leaves me with two options.

I can either try to get some unobtrusive advertising / sponsorship from a friendly company (any suggestions welcome).

Or

Place a PayPal button on the site in the hope that people will donate an amount to help with the costs.

I would be interested in hearing peoples opinions - don't hold back!

Cheers

Dan

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 10, 2003, 15:02:49

- shame, isn't it? - don't know the finer points, but I would happily offer £50 a year.  Better than TV! But I may not live that long? - Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 10, 2003, 15:06:16

Tim - very generous - bit more than I was thinking about !

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: rdak on December 10, 2003, 15:07:09

I don't mind making a donation. Dread to think what I would have paid in books by now and still not got the amount of knowledge I have from this site.
Am very against prominent advertisements

Dan -is there any backup for running this site? I was just thinking if you left for whatever reason (long holiday,hospital etc) would the site still be able to keep going?
thanks for all the hard work

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: rosebud on December 10, 2003, 15:11:42

Hi Dan i do not know what to say .i would want to donate BUT my husband does not like the idea of me usingthe card on the net dead against it  :-[.so it looks like i shall have to eat humble pie and eventually go back to whence i came the boring beebie board. :'(.
I will keep my fingers crossed you will find an advertiser
very soon. :)   I do wish you all the best with this.I am sure you did not think it would take off in such a big way but once we found out on the beeb board how good this was WELL WOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWE ::) ;D :D.You do a fantastic job hope it sorts out very soon good luck Rosebud.

::) ::)   ;D ;D ;D   :D :) :D.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 10, 2003, 15:12:12

I'm only a young pup - hopefully I'll not be going anywhere soon, but ...

The site is hosted professionally by a hosting company - who deal with any hardware problems (www.easily.co.uk).

I am the only administrator / moderator at the moment, but as the site grows I may ask one or two people to assist in that process.

Hope that answers your questions !

PS

I've just come back from a few days in Madrid and the site kept going.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 10, 2003, 15:13:51

Rosebud ....

Don't go - I will not force anyone to pay, and would not want anyone to feel obliged.

Everyone is more than welcome here - I'm just looking at the options to keep the site running and free.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: budgiebreeder on December 10, 2003, 16:11:00

Sponsership sounds the best idea to me.But like who? that i suppose is the question.
I think that it goes without saying(by the numbers using the boards and joiningeach day) how much we all enjoy the site,also appreciate your hard work.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Ozzy_aka_Pothead on December 10, 2003, 17:29:47

Yo Dan

Go for sponsorship mate, you will have no probs.... any garding magazine or gardening programme makers would be falling over themselves for a slice of your pie...  I will make a donation Dan, but as rosebud sez.. credit cards and the net.... maybe a PO box? then
we could pop a fiver in your crimbo card....

Madrid eh?

!Hola!

?Que tal mi amigo?

adios

oZzY %)

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: legless on December 10, 2003, 17:31:10

crocus have loads of banner ads everywhere, they might be worth a go.....

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: rdak on December 10, 2003, 17:48:12

Dan, if you need someone to help out with administration then I offer my services.

I know my way around a computer. Now..where's that 'Post' button...

..ah, there it is.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hyacinth on December 10, 2003, 17:55:04

I'm voting with Oz & his suggestions, who

seems to be making sense  ;D ::) :P

Lishka

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Tenuse on December 10, 2003, 18:22:36

What about Kitchen Garden magazine, or some of the seed companies, maybe they would sponsor you if you put a link to their online seed catalogues?

Ten x

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Suze_O on December 10, 2003, 19:41:05

Just my thoughts exactly.

I would suggest one of the seed catalogues, it surely would generate income fom them and maybe some of the posters here could take part in their seed trials?

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 10, 2003, 19:48:17

Is it polite to ask what sort of money we're looking at?

And, beaten to the post, surely there's alternative to credit cards?

We are NOT going to let this one slip out of our hands!! - Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hyacinth on December 10, 2003, 20:04:36

I'm out tonight to my Organic Gardeners Soc, taking my seed order along...E.W.King & Co. Ltd, Coggeshall Road, Kelvedon, Essex CO5 9PG; tel:01376 570000; Fax01376 571189;email:sales@kingsseeds.com...

Produce a special catalogue for allotment & horticultural societies & gardening clubs..got organic seeds too.. p'raps worth a try? - Lishka

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 10, 2003, 20:27:22

Like Rosebud and oZzY, there`s just no way I`d be prepared to use my credit card on the internet, or even have the details on my computer, and a PayPal button would simply see me off.

Like oZzY I agree that sponsorship is probably the best way to go, since that would avoid all the accounting and other problems involved in collecting from the members.

However, like Tim, I would have no objection to putting a cheque in the post from time to time if that were the only way to keep the site going.

Of course, you could always try flogging my jokes - especially the tutorial ones.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Suze_O on December 10, 2003, 20:29:33

Sorry Dan, should have included this thought in previous post.

Regarding the pay option.  The site lists 390 members.  If you scroll down Members page, particularly pages 2,3,4 many of them, although registered, have never posted.  This does not mean they don't visit the Board, but certainly I do not think they would want to pay for the privilege of reading messages.

The hardcore of posters probably numbers around 50, you would know exact figure.

Knowing what Internet hosting costs are I just do not think that paying (as a voluntary option) would be feasible in that it would not generate enough dosh from the (relatively small) amount of regular users.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: gavin on December 10, 2003, 20:47:37

Hi folks

Hmmmm!  I like the idea of sponsorship, being pretty cash-strapped myself!  But is there a sponsor?  I suspect we might have a choice between

• the good-willing, discreet, and cash-poor;
  
• and the willing, rich, and splashing/bannering/redirecting all over.
  

Or am I just getting too cynical in my old age?

My choice would be a donation system - Paypal and postal equivalent.  But, I don't know what the costs involved are - looking at http://www.realgardeners.co.uk/fund_raising.htm suggests that may my choice may not be sufficient?

All best - Gavin

PS  If you do want any backup or help on running A4A, I'll happily volunteer!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: busy_lizzie on December 10, 2003, 22:04:25

This is a fabulous Site and I would hate to see it disappear.  You produced something you should  feel rightly proud about Dan.  

I would be happy do any of the things that have been suggested.  Certainly don't mind adverts or sponsorship and feel quite secure with Paypal.  We have used it many times, as my Husband is a great Stamp Collector and that is what he uses and it is pretty straightforward.  I agree though that those who don't take a very active role on the Board might not be too hapyy to pay a fee for just browsing.  :)  busy_lizzie

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: rosebud on December 10, 2003, 23:24:40

Hey Dan OZZY`S suggestion is brilliant !!!!! i am sure they would jump at the chance.Seed catalogues also sound a good idea go for it please  8).we cannot let this site go. :)  cheers Rosebud.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Ragged Robin on December 10, 2003, 23:51:45

    Didn't think I'd ever say this ....... Ozzy makes sense ............ So I agree with him and those who have gone before me.

This site is fun and informative and shouldn't be lost

Perhaps we could charge for tickets to the panto?!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: campanula on December 11, 2003, 00:29:25

Tim,
I happily pay to join stuff like HDRA and more than happy to pay some sort of subs - I would have to send cheque or PO as........I do not have a card (lessons learned). I also think that there are a number of sponsership options but they might take a fair bit of admin (I know nothing about internet but i do know bits about  fundraising!!) I was having a look at the YaBB site as well and it seems to be a fairly simple set up - have you thought about a bit of  volunteer working - I don't thinkit would be at all difficult to have fall backs if you want a break from moderating. Might be worth seeing if anyone else interested in downloading the BB operating stuff. Might be talking rubbish but I spend a bit of time making music with my son, in Manchester - we use hubs and something called CuteFTP (I think) - i am sure you know all this and i am just being really longwinded about saying we will support you and this site how ever we can.
cheers, suzy

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 11, 2003, 00:41:18

Interesting thoughts - reading through them I would like to say that I am in no way intending to force anyone to pay, or restrict access to anyone who doesn't pay.

Sponsorship / low key advertising is obviously the best option – however …

At the moment I have no problem with people passing on details of sites that sell seeds, posting seed swaps or pretty much anything else - I hope everyone will agree!

I am not sure how a seed supplier would react however to having another supplier plugged for free in a discussion - I'm not saying there would definitely be a problem, but it's just something to think about.

Tim asked what sort of money we are talking – last month the cost was £60, this will rise as the site becomes more popular – which I hope it does.

I have started this thread to ask members opinions as I like to think of the site as a community – I may run the site, but am by no means an ogre (well I don’t think so) – and want all your opinions and thoughts.

Finally, thanks for the offers of help with administration -  I may well take you up on them!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Mrs Ava on December 11, 2003, 00:44:57

I love this site!  :D  I know you have all said it, but I am going to say it again!  I love this site!!  So, on that note, I would be happy to pay or donate, and wouldn't worry about adverts, they pop up on several other sites I use, and to be honest, I don't even notice them now.  I am sure whatever you decide Dan, we are all behind you 110% !   ;D

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: MagpieDi on December 11, 2003, 00:48:53

I too am happy to pay a sub...........whatever it costs......gotta be better value than the TV licence!!!  ::)  ;D

Sponsorship too........whatever it takes Dan !!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Ozzy_aka_Pothead on December 11, 2003, 01:31:44

Yo Dan and Comrades

On a pyschological level this site rocks big time and the potential to make Dan dead rich like, as advertisers love this sort of thing and it is within the grasp of us as a group... I knew there wuz areason for the dead good experiment..::)  

Why does this site rock?

cuz we as such a diverse and accepting group can and do make a difference...plus peeps out there like to sell things to peeps like us, and they would like peeps like us to buy from peeps like them.


how many times do we come here and have a good old chuckle? me? never ::)

but what I am suggesting is that we write to gardening mags teling them what a groove this site is, and believe me when they see this place .. they will be falling over themselves to sponsor this site... but thats only my opinion whuch is based on the fact that you lot are right loons ::)

losing the plot now so babble alertio

oZzY %)
xxx

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 11, 2003, 09:37:42

Suzy -  you have me on the brain? Exciting!!

And Dan, take me up on my offer to tide things over? = Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 11, 2003, 10:59:33

Tim and everyone else ...

The site is not going to disappear - I am just mindfull of the fact that very soon the running costs are going to approach about £1000 per year, I am trying to plan ahead !

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: legless on December 11, 2003, 11:01:28

what about an advertising directory for suppliers? works on other forums i visit and we still get to recommend suppliers on the boards...

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Doris_Pinks on December 11, 2003, 11:11:40

I don't mind any of the suggestions, would hate to loose my homepage! Cheers me up every day and is the first thing I look at when I log on!
If I can be of any service to help with whatever to keep the site running, let me know.thanks for this great site Dan. Dottie P.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: mysticmog on December 11, 2003, 12:44:14

I agree re: seed companies - what about doing some sort of deal with HRDA - we take on oldey worldey seeds and they get exposure....

Why not do both, bit of donating, bit of blatant advertising.  You could always link up to other gardening type sites and get them to pay you on a hit rate....

M xx

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: lotech on December 11, 2003, 13:13:23

My first post...and its about Internet sites not allotments. I have just taken one on to get away from all this !!

Dan , at 50 ,  I run a one man internet company , I design sites , market sites and run my own web server.

I have established a number of Bulletin boards, including one that has had 72,000 posts in a year. ( I am not sure how this compares with yours but you seem to have about 6000 topics - not sure about the posts ) This board costs me nothing as my bandwidth is already paid for in my business use of my web server, but I know it only uses less than 2Gig of bandwidth a month. I dont know what yours is using but you may wish to compare.

Did you say it is hosted by Easily - what are they charging you for bandwidth ? They seem to be an established company that sells initial stuff at a low cost and then extras cost more.

Also , this forum software is easy to use but may be more bandwidth hungry than other in more common use. I use PHPBB which is very good and stable.

I have suddenly realised that this is all very techie and I should really perhaps reserve much more of my thoughts to a private message/email with you. Let me know if you would like a few more observations.

As regards advertising, I would be tempted to contact the seed suppliers, magazines etc marketing departments and invite them to tender for a prime banner advert - you might be surprised at what they would offer . One offer could also be used to negotiate a better price from the others. ( I would also ring a few gardening magazines and check out the cost of some adverts by your target companies to see what they are spending on traditional marketing methods. )

getting people to pay for subscription to your site /forum would be difficult and whilst some existing members would pay, other new visitors would be less likely.

I think the answer lies in looking at your existing costs and looking for ways to reduce it either by changing hosting company and/or forum software. Then look at bandwidth saving ideas such as limiting avatar size, compression etc.Then the next step would be getting some discreet advertising from the appropiate companies and encouraging forum users to click through these ads so they can see a return for their investment.

Let me know if I can help more.

Oh yes, i got my first allotment last week........http://www.stocktons.org.uk/allotment.html

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 11, 2003, 14:27:56

- what a mine of info at the drop of a hat!! = Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hyacinth on December 11, 2003, 15:06:35

WOW, Lotech!!!! And may your allotment prosper, your crops never suffer from blight, beasties both crawling or airborne or any other ills known to beset the veg. gardener. Great info here - do hope that Dan can find his way through the probs of being too successful :)

I'd not flagged this topic, tho, so didn't know of your post and came on with a thought...ex-food/gardening board Beebies will know of NiceBites, a board set up by a husband&wife team - all the stalwart Beeb Foodies decamped en masse at the time..Cleo is a mover & shaker there..from modest beginnings they are now a BIG and successful Forum and still growing!!!

So I wondered, Dan...could you check it out & then perhaps ask them how they manage their finances, or could Stephan/Cleo ask on your behalf?

NiceBites is a great site! For any of you who don't know it, worth checking out. Lishka

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 11, 2003, 20:58:23

- yes - Sylvie - great girl!! = Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Beer_Belly on December 12, 2003, 10:40:31

methinks lotech is in fact not low tech ?

Sounds like a techie like me to me  ;)

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 13, 2003, 02:04:49

At the risk of stirring up the more somnolent members of this site, Dan, it must surely be a matter of concern that out of a total membership of 395 your vote counter indicates that only 20 people have voted at all, and they are the ones (presumably) who have contributed to this thread.

While I know that you don`t wish to wave the big stick at anyone, might it not be a good idea to send each of the non-participating members a personal message (or even an email) suggesting that they take an interest in this particular subject?

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: MagpieDi on December 13, 2003, 02:45:16

I'll second that proposition !

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: ciderself on December 13, 2003, 12:56:28

Sorry its taken so long to 'join' in - been hibernating.
I agree with Ozzy on this one
Even though we would happily contribute  - any benefit could be outweighed by yet more administration costs.
Surely - with the number of daily ( and nightly) hits any suppliers of gardening merchandise would jump at the chance of sponsoring this site and Dan you might even be  able to show some return for all your hard work.

All the very best of luck
Susan

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Admin aka Dan on December 13, 2003, 13:10:20

Other people have responded via email - so I'm not worried about the low response on the thread.

I'm firing off some letters this weekend to see if I can interest anyone in parting with cash.

We shall see what happens!!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: tim on December 13, 2003, 13:45:54

Glad about that - good luck! But suppose they'll all be away for the hols?  = Tim

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: markymark on December 14, 2003, 20:51:13

Hi Dan

Personally having just found this site, which incidentally is absolutley spot on (especially when the chat room arrives) I would be quite happy to make a donation.

Just let us know how it all pans out, and if needs be we'll have to "dig deep"..scuse the pun.

Keep up the good work!

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: teresa on December 14, 2003, 22:49:52

I must admit I know nothing about the money side of running a site but having seen this site grow I dont want to see it disapear.
I do think seed companys would jump at a chance to advertise here like King and Co who our lottie committie get the seeds from. Good luck Dan with the letters
Teresa

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: campanula on December 16, 2003, 01:34:02

hey dan - almost 400!!
do you want any help withletter writing or testimonials and so on. would be a pleasure to help out.
cheers, suzy

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Garden Manager on December 18, 2003, 13:34:22

Quote

At the risk of stirring up the more somnolent members of this site, Dan, it must surely be a matter of concern that out of a total membership of 395 your vote counter indicates that only 20 people have voted at all, and they are the ones (presumably) who have contributed to this thread.

While I know that you don`t wish to wave the big stick at anyone, might it not be a good idea to send each of the non-participating members a personal message (or even an email) suggesting that they take an interest in this particular subject?

No Hugh you cant force people to take part in a discusion if they dont want to. Any more than you make people pay for using a website.  

I for one favour sponsorship for this site

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 18, 2003, 15:22:00

I cannot see any reference to "force" in my posting - the actual word is "suggesting".

As one so free with unjustified accusations of misquoting and misunderstanding you really should be more careful in how you read simple English.

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: Garden Manager on December 18, 2003, 19:30:51

GOTCHA! Hugh

Lol

Richard

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: carloso on December 22, 2003, 18:46:07

hello

i think about a fiver a year should cover it, Its still cheap enough for all ages to afford it then and still not of putting for new members also option of sending cheque should be available,
Err with out knowing the complications be a none profit making scheme as MR TAX man maybe interested im sure theres tax men or accountants that are keen gardeners or maybe even own an alloment !!!

only a newbie but brilliant site

Carl

Title: Re: Running the site
Post by: LynneA on December 24, 2003, 16:13:40

What about shed manufacturers ... or maybe a biscuit brand.....?