Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Lizard Man on April 02, 2006, 07:36:22
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Am just starting anew, now I have moved, and am having my allotment at the bottom of my garden. I was hoping to have raised beds (bit late for this seaon now as I have got onions, shallots and potatoes in already!).
Does anyone have any ideas for cheap edging to use in order to create the raised beds? I have only really thought of sleepers (I have seen new ones near me which sre not full of creosote) but they will work out a bit on the expensive side.
Monty Don suggests old scaffold planks - but where would you get these?
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Don't know but, meanwhile, Search''Raised Beds'?
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Hey lizard man
if you want raiesd beds and want to use old planks from scaffold planks they are quite easy to use
as if you get your yellow pages and look for you local scaffolder he will probely give you some as any that get slighty dammaged or snapped they can not use so they have to skip them or give them to someone ;)
hope this helps
waggi
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Hi Lizard Man
I agree with Waggi, try Yellow Pages - although I have found in my area at least (West London) that scaffolders are reusing by trimming off the ends and rebanding, but if you don't ask you don't get!
I have used freecycle to pick up a few pine bed frames, which have been transformed into rasied beds - I know they won't last long but it got me started. Also keep a look out for loft conversions and see if you can have the joists.
When I did find some scaff planks, I got the OH to saw them lengthways, so that way 1 13' plank makes 1 8x4 bed.
last weekend, I got fed up scrounging and bought 5x8' 4" planks for £7.99 from Wickes, which made me 1.5 beds
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I dismantled pallets and used the wood for edging around my plot. Cheap as they were free!
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Hello lizardman
A vote for NOT edging your beds!
If you measure out your plot with string to show the beds and paths, and only tread on the paths, the paths will sink. As soon as you start digging, growing and adding organic matter, the beds will rise!
If it's your first year, you might decide as you go along to change the size, layout or orientation of your beds, and not edging them the first year will give you flexibility as you learn what suits you best. I reduced the width of my beds (to suit my arms) from 4 ft to just over 3 ft, and am experimenting with raking up the beds to face South this year for earlier crops. Not edging aves time and £, and reduces the risk of slugs making themselves at home in the wooden sides. See below, it is possible! :D
NB my plot is the nearest one ;)
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e220/supersprout/DSCN0878.jpg)
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see if theres a timber reclaimers near you.
i saw this on the boards and tried it myself and reclaimed wood works out a lot cheaper than anything else.
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I used wooden boards for the last few years but, like Supersprout, I am now slowly replacing them with string and putting some of the wood on the paths to use as slug traps and rove beetle refuges.
Because I have clay soil and suffer from a big slug problem, this seems to have a bigger impact on the quality of what I grow, it provides somewhere the rove beetles and slow worms can hide from the badgers. Also the sloping edge means that preditors can now climb onto the beds and prevents the slugs from having so many fixed hiding places.
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I'm with John_H and supersprout on this. I started with raised beds 6 years ago, but over time have replaced them with mounded beds. Much easier to manage.
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We are in the process of our loft conversion and have been very lucky to be able to keep all the joists and beams that were removed. I also told the builders that the wood was for the lottie and they also saved me all the offcuts of new untreated wood which was only going to be 'dumped' :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
After deciding I wanted raised beds, I constructed a couple of wonky ones and then decided I didn't like them and have opted for a nice solid central path with mounded beds either side. (see blog for further details..... ;D)
Good luck....!
Louisa x
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Thanks for all the advice. I will not be having any raised beds this year, due to not getting myself sorted, so will be able to decide how I want the layout for next year (hopefully). But despite the sound advice for not bothering with raised beds, I think I am still dead set on them - in an allotment then I would agree, but at the bottom of the garden in a small well defined area I want the plots to be 'tidy' and hopefully also vaguely attractive.
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not going for the tidy or attractive route, but also going for the very tight (ie: zero) budget, I've just pilfered a low bookcase from the b-i-law's garage, popped the back out and plonked that down. Don't have time to seive the very stony ground this year and we need to get the carrots etc going soon. I'll use them (and the knackered wardrobe which will be cut in two vertically = two raised beds) till they fall apart.
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I'm another one who can't understand why people assume that raised beds are a good idea ??? Why would anyone want to raise their plants another foot above the water table?
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If you've got a very high water table, that alone might be a reason for wanting them! The basic idea is to build up some extra-fertile soil, which inevitably raises the level. Lots of compost worked in helps hold water, so it's not necessarily that critical, though that being said, I do find it useful having the water table not too far down.
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I'm another one who can't understand why people assume that raised beds are a good idea ??? Why would anyone want to raise their plants another foot above the water table?
From RHS,
Raised beds can provide many benefits for the gardener. As well as adding interest to the garden they allow a wider range of plants to be grown on either difficult soils or those with an inappropriate pH as you can fill them with a suitable soil mix.
Raised beds can also reduce or even eliminate bending, and the improved drainage ensures the soil warms more rapidly in the spring, allowing the vegetable growing season to start earlier. :o :o :o
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In my garden I've got raised beds simply because it looks better but in the allotment I won't be having any simply for the reasons stated by Supersprout...and as it's my first year in the plot I'm not sure where everything will end up so it's better to be flexible.
Good luck with whatever you decide anyway.
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I'm still not convinced. The soil may warm up quicker but will also dry out quicker, meaning you will spend all summer lugging watering cans around. By gardening on the flat I never need to water.
Raised beds seems to be a fad started by television gardeners about 10 years ago so that now, judging by recent posts, newcomers assume that it's "the done thing".
I see that in the new extension to the vegatable garden on Gardeners World they have gone back to gardening on the flat in the traditional way.
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Loved this post, it made me go back and think why I decided on beds. Then I twigged - the beds I have are BEDS, not 'raised beds'. John H's description is 'mounded' and that's exactly what they look like.
The paths sink because they are trodden on and compacted, and the bed areas gradually rise because they are (sometimes) dug and receive compost and mulch.
You pays your money and you takes your choice. If I grew oodles of spuds or grain crops, I'd use the traditional system. If I had the skill, I might want to build raised beds for e.g. blueberries or parsnips. Or if the soil was stony or difficult. Or if it simply worked better than beds for the way I like to garden.
Didn't John Seymour call them 'deep beds'? I wonder if Simon is right - has 'raised beds' crept into the language as the catch-all for any bed system?
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Didn't John Seymour call them 'deep beds'? I wonder if Simon is right - has 'raised beds' crept into the language as the catch-all for any bed system?
I have a vegetable book called ' Home grown vegetables ' printed in 1925 that mentions the use of beds, so hardly a modern fad. To me the greatest advantages of a bed system, whether raised or not, has to be the higher yield per square foot over the traditional method, since the use of rows is abolished, planting distances can be closer. It is generally agreed that the use of rows as stated on the seed packet comes from the farming community, who need rows to allow harvesting machinery to operate. Me, I harvest by hand so why would I want to grow crops in such a way as to allow machinery which I don't have, to operate? I'm growing for me not for someone else. But at the end of the day we garden in a way that we are happy with, that we enjoy, so good luck and happy gardening, (even if you are doing it wrong ;D ;D ;D)
MikeB
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hardly a modern fad.
According to Pauline Pears, growers in Asia have been using beds for more than 2,000 years! :o Pictures of some Asian growers (in California) show them mounded, with trodden paths between and no fixed edges.
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Beds are traditional all over the world, but whether they're raised or not depends on local circumstances. In Mali they sink them because it's a bit moister that way.
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Ok, (deep breath), I understand why deep beds or mounds might seem a good idea for some people, I understand the theory behind them, and I can see why they might be a good idea on waterlogged soil, or that you might have to add timber edges after a decade or so of adding compost or manure, what I was getting at is the way some newcomers seem to assume that the first thing they should do is construct timber-edged raised beds, see for example these recent posts:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,18887.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,18859.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,18603.0
What worries me is people are rushing out to construct these contraptions without any clear idea as to why they are doing it, creating a lot of work for themselves in the process, and I was wondering where they'd got the idea from. ::) Don't get me wrong, I think the ammount of enthusiasm newcomers have is fantastic, I sometimes wish I still had as much, it's just that I'd rather point them in the direction of improving what they've got, ie improving the soil and getting the weeds out, before their energy runs out!
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as two out of three of those links had me in them.. i'd better reply :-[
my plot is newly cleared wasteland - full of bramble roots... if i think too hard about what i've taken on, i start to panic.
so have divided plot into thirds, am going to cover the bits i can't work on with heavy black plastic in the hope (perhaps naive) that it will keep the weeds down enough for me to get started on the first bit.
the raised bed bit comes in because the soil is so light, the edges of any beds u dig crumble really easily. lots of the old timers have wood edges. i don't want make a really deep bed - about 10/12 cm i suppose.
I suppose also raised beds are also pyschologically easier to deal with - u have a defined area to really concentrate on. it gives u an illusion of being in control i suppose! u have somewhere positive to direct all your effort ( and your manure!)
am not trying to justify... just explain. it's good really...u've made me think about why i'm doing it! :)
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it's good really...u've made me think about why i'm doing it! :)
Snap@tabbycat, A4a has some very thought-provoking moments doesn't it? Thank you Simon :)
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I have built timber edged raised beds as I have very limited time that I can devote to the allotment. This way the edges keep the couch at bay, I only have to weed the beds themselves and strim the rest. Also I have very heavy soil so by concentrating on improving defined areas it makes it a) easier and b) cheaper (not lucky enough to have access to free manure or huge amounts of compost. I also don't have to dig over the whole plot each year.
I realise that they have their downsides too but it is interesting that when I took on my plot 3 years ago and started making the timber beds the old hands all looked at me as if I was mad, one asked why I was making so many seed beds. However now another 4 plot holders have built them too!
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I'm with Tabbycat and Justy.
It appears easier to manage and when you have just taken on a semi or fully derelict plot, it is important to do whatever you can to maintain motivation.
I chose wooden edged beds because digging a 8x4 bed is more achievable than starting in one corner of a 10 rod plot and digging and digging. With the beds, I have planted as I have gone. I now have 12 beds, so I can take a break and wander around looking at what is already growing. Does wonders for the motivation. It also means that I can concentrate my weeding efforts and can quickly see the benefits of my labours.
Now I have a bit more experience and have spent several hours on a4a, I am not putting wood frames around the remaining beds and I am making them different sizes to accomodate different veggies e.g. PSB, sprouts, sweetcorn, squash etc.
I didn't blindly follow some trendy garden designer, I chose beds because it seemed a logical approach to take.
Deep breath...........feel better now. Been doing conflict resolution today ;)
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have just checked out your blog - what an inspiration!
to have achieved all that since January is great. it's really made me feel that i can make something out of my own patch of dusty, rubbish strewn soil!
am definitely going to have "wooden-edged beds that are slightly higher than soil level" - am not using the contentious r-word any more! ;D
Tabbycat
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:-X :-X :-X ;D ;D ;D :-X :-X :-X Great stuff all of you for sticking up for yourselves! Don't mind me, I fall out of my pram onto my soapbox from time to time. Good luck with your endeavors, however you choose to garden ;)
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We've "borrowed" part of a friend's allotment. Most of his beds are edged with timber, so we're doing the same where we can. It stops you walking on the plants for a start - my youngest today has had to be prevented from taking shortcuts through the potatoes, which aren't edged as yet. :)
We're not doing "raised" beds as such though. The soil we have is too beautiful to mess around with. You'd all envy me if you saw what I was planting in today. :D
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have just checked out your blog - what an inspiration!
it's really made me feel that i can make something out of my own patch of dusty, rubbish strewn soil!
Tabbycat
Just remember, take it one bed at a time. When it is complete, plant something lovely in it and watch it grow while you prepare the next bed and so on until you look around and it's all done. ;D ;D 8)
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I don't see what the fuss is all about.
I have two allotments next to each other, and No.1, taken last year, was under water on its clay base until April 2005, so my reasoning to raise beds was pragmatic, to give root vegetable a chance not to rot.
Raised they are - untreated sleepers one on top of another, so at least 1 foot high.
I then dug trenches down both sides of the plot and these are still within 2" of the ground level. My A4All name used to be Trenchboy..wonder why...
Plot No.2 isn't quite as bad, as I have to go down at least 6" before I hit water, so no raised beds there.... yet.
The ground conditions determine how each of us works his or her plot.
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I have been on my original lottie for 5 years now, and only had traditional rows in year one. Halfway through that 5 years I did my back in digging. The site is on a diagonal slope and the soil is incredibly stony and free-draining. Mounding fails - it just dries out and soil crawls back down onto the paths rapidly. (And doesn't help the diagonal slope)
When I got my second half plot, I decided that the only way I was going to save (the remainder of) my sanity, my back and the water running straight off was to raise the beds with larger planks on the downhill sides, so to make the soil surface level or more level than it was. It was very successful, I had wonderful spuds, amazing leeks, beans and corn, and the only bed that didn't do well was onions and I think that was because it's the least raised (and improved) of the lot.
This year I've been properly edging plot 1. It was partially terraced on one edge only to stop water run-off, but it wasn't to the same standard as plot 2, so I'm converting it. The timber yard loves me... but prep this winter on the plot 2 beds was a piece of cake - clear bed, add manure to top of those which need it for this year's rotation, then cover with carpet. No digging. No backache! Easy watering with no soil or water run-off. Happy moonbells. See the diary archive, January-March both last year and this for construction photos. ;D ;D
Works for me, but I can see how nice well-behaved flat lotties wouldn't need it.
moonbells
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i love this thread - i'm learning so much!
tabbycat
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Not sure if this has been clarified elsewhere ...
John Seymour advocates the 'deep bed' method in his book 'The Self-Sufficient Gardener' (OHs bible at the mo).
The idea is thus ...
you mark out a bed - I think he suggests 4foot by 25 (the 4 foot is the important measurement - this way you can reach the middle from either side)
You put a load of muck or compost on the top.
You then proceed to 'bastard trench' (his words, not mine) ... this involves:
- removing a trench of earth and muck from one end
- Getting as deep as you can with the fork in the trench and loosening the subsoil at the bottom
- Digging the next trench and turning the muck and soil into the first
and so on until you reach the last trench, which you fill in with the contents of the first one.
Does that make sense?
Anyway, he doesn't edge his beds, as he thinks they are just slug havens, although he says you can if you want (nice man).
The important bit is not treading on the bed
He also suggests taking all the stones out of the bed as you dig, then removing the topsoil from the paths and putting that on the bed and replacing it with the stones (cunning huh?)
He reckons that you need never dig your bed again as long as you don't stand on it - just forking over in the autumn with more manure / compost will be sufficient - and he claims that he can manage to fork a 4 x 25 bed in about 10 minutes (hmmm).
And now for the science bit.
This method basically allows your plant roots to go straight down through uncompacted soil to where the water is.
In a traditional bed, the roots tend to go sideways, as they have trouble going down through compacted soil, and therefore compete with their neighbours for water and nutrients.
Therefore, you can put plants closer together and increase yield (also reducing weeding as they self shade the ground)
This is off the top of my head - if if doesn't make sense let me know and I'll dig out the book.
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I picked up a book in the library this morning; 'Companion Gardening' by Richard Bird. There's an illutaration of a woodcut from an old book, 'The Gardeners Labyrinth', showing men in 16th-17th Century dress preparing besd.
'The quarters well turned in, and fatned with good dung a time before, & the earth raised through the dunging, shal in handsome maner by a line set downe in the earth, be troden out into beddes and seemly borders, which beds (as Columella witnesseth) raysed newly afore with dung, and finely raked over, with the clods dissolved, and stones... '
Obviously, raised beds are nothing new in the UK! Columella was a 1st-Century Roman aristocrat who wrote a 12-volume work on agriculture.
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What a lyrical description of beds Robert! They don't write them like that any more ;D ;D ;D