Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: faerie9 on April 03, 2005, 17:50:44
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Anyone know the best way to move a lottie?!
After finishing digging it all over and planting seeds....... we have 2 months to move out as the landowner is selling up. :o
Typical! ::)
I have broccolli, leeks ,onions and pumkins in seed trays, potatoes in the ground, as well as carrot and parsnip seeds.
Assuming I have somewhere to move them to, what is the best course of action?!
Or do I have to give up this year???
Thanks :o)
Jenni
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i am so sorry to hear this
if you are still in date with your rent you might have some rights
good luck finding a new site
::)
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thanks waggi
i am going to the CAB tomorrow about the whole thing - 30 people in our village are being kicked out! :o
An old friend who lives a half mile from me has a lottie on her property that she said I can use ;D But it needs digging over and weeding :o Oh well I've had a lot of practise this year at it!
Cheers
Jenni
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Hi Faerie, I am sorry you are losing your plot, If you all can`t negotiate to move on after harvest then I think I`d dig out the spuds now and move them straight into big buckets taking generous amounts of soil around them.
Then prepare the new plot and move baby plants in the last few days available to you. I think you lose carrots (and parsnips?) because you`ll get white fly.
Its a bit like the thread started by JRP where the whole lottie is in milk containers on pallets so its portable, maybe you could create a container garden?
www.recycling.moonfruit.com
Best of Luck, Col
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Really sorry to hear what has happened - that is very harsh.
I hope you get another plot soon and come to terms with all this...
Sarah.
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I suppose they're selling it for building... I read not long ago that allotments are registered as brownfield sites (!) so builders have to use them before farmers' fields.
How stupid is that?
If there's 30 of you then is there a hope of a cooperative buyout? Probably not I know...
Try www.nsalg.org.uk - they were formed to fight this sort of thing. Though I'm not sure it helps for private landlords.
My condolences. I'd rustle up a parish meeting or three!
moonbells
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look at the office of the deputy prime minister there are hundreds of regs oin this matter! its aganst the law. if there is less than a years notuice, they have to pay back your rent, the seeds etc sown, and provide you wiht a lottie that can be easily hand dug.
i think the website is www.otdp.com but not quite sure
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Thats really bad luck.
As it has been said b4 I would be looking at your rights you must have at least some compesation for the produce you are going to loose and the hard work you have put in.
The short notice must be a big point on you side.
Good Luck
Ron
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I really feel for you. I have this halcyon dream of being able to guerrilla garden on vacant plots but in reality it all goes wrong.
It just has for me :-[ ..
last year I took on a derelict plot in a semi derelict site with about 3-4 other lottie holders. the most senior guy told us nobody hhad collected the rent for years and was suitably vague about it all saying 'if someone comes and seems official, pay em'.
being always on the lookout for a bargain, we all took his word. now he has given notice to the landlord (whom he knew all along, he just didn\t share the info with us cos he knew they would say we couldn't have a spot).
now the landlord has got intouch with one of my mates and told him we need to get off the land. it's owned by oxford diocese and they want to put in a planning application.
as it is just across the road from me I wanna know all about it, but legally we don't have a leg to stand on, and I'm loathe to kick up too much of a fuss in case they put an 8ft fence up round it to keep us out.
wish they'd put up a notice stating their intentions, but I wonder if they are trying to keep it quiet - wonder if i should put up a notice of their intentions, though that goes against what I just said.
this year I've dug three qurters of the plot and already ahve broads, oniooons, peas, pots - and a nice pallet shed that I only, er, finished, the other week.
My wife and kids love, it we get loads of lovely veg and fruit off it, and it is great exercise for a slothful officebound git like me...
I am gutted. the only other lotties with vacancies in Bicester are on the other side of town. not so appealing for a quick water/weed/dig ... Very very sad
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Office of the Deputy Prime Minister http://www.odpm.gov.uk/stellent/groups/odpm_control/documents/homepage/odpm_home_page.hcsp has shifted over here ::)
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fat larry -
just a thought - does Oxford Diocese have an Environmental Officer? They should have. S/he might be worth a try - the Diocese may have other bits of land around that are too small to develop - environmental issues are a pretty trendy Church topic at the moment - garden of Eden and all that!
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what a brilliant idea!!! I will find out. I was gonna write them a letter about it all anyway, or sticck up a poster on the site, but your idea appeals to me. I've got a local councillor interested cos it is right near the only/oldest grass airfield left in the UK (home of hanggliding these days) and that is protected, he reckons they will have tough job doing anything there.
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hi fat larry
sorry to hear about your liottie. Is that the site off skimmingdish lane near the roundabout. I had wondered about those but didn't know who owned them.
there is a site at Anson Way off the Churchill Road but there is a waiting list. but you probably know this already. If you manage to negotiate and get to stay on your lottie perhaps for another year you could put your name down now on the waiting list for Anson.
just a thought, it's the nearest council lottie site to you.
MM
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yes it is. we are working on staying there somehow - I've emailed and phoned the church, garden of eden, garden of greed-en! also mentioned it to local councillor (les sibley) who is interested in it cos of proximity to airfield etc). ansons way has a waiting list of 10 and only 19 plots which haven\t changed hands for several years :( . only other sites from town council are in highfields, which is the other side of town. I live right on edge of the estate so skimmingdish was well handy.
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I hadn't realized that Anson Way had a waiting list of 10! I did know they'd had a spot of bother on there in the past but there is now a new fence around it.
I've got my name on the Leach Road waiting list as that's the nearest one to me, on the opposite side of Bicester to you.
Anyway good luck, hope it all turns out OK
MM
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thanks for the kind words and advice :)
Larry sorry to hear you are having trouble too - what is it about Oxford? It's New College, Uni of Oxford that are selling my property plus lottie.
Speaking of which, am I entitled to compensation as the lottie comes with the house, it's not a separate lottie tenancy?
The latest is that I am going to see how much they want, see if I can't buy my home. Here's hoping and keeping everything crossred.... 8)
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my fingers and toes are crossed for you so is my OH, my baby, my two collie dogs, my two ferrets and if my fish could they would
:D
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didn't know about leach road site ... who owns it? town council only offered ansons way and kings end, which hs several vacancies, but v overgrown - council may be able to rotovate it. new problem is that the lottie, which has been there years, may be in neighouring parish, launton, so bic town coucnil not interested.
my bet is estate agents who act for church want it to be vacant to avoid any probs in future with it, and with church saying they don't want to sell off working land.
we'll have to try to attract people - merlins mum, want a lottie squattie? we have two vacant at the moment, whcih are in ok condition and loads that are appalling (and no guarantee of our future!!!)
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Hi fat larry
It's tempting very tempting, drove past there today.
will send you a pm too
MM
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ceri's advice about the environment officer of the church could be very helpful. it's a guy called ian james, a prof of meteorolgy at reading uni, who would be great to get on our side.
He's featured here in words and pix
http://www.sageoxford.org.uk/news.htm
and I note that in oxford church volunteers helped clear overgrown land/plant hedges ... hmm. sounds promising fingers crossed etc (not sure if that is v religous but hey!)
on a slightly ironic note - on sunday afternoon I finally finished digging what I planned when I took on the lottie last april!!! (there is more I could do round edges etc, but at the moment four big beds is enough) - how do people avoid treading down the ground - planks? featherboard fencing pieces?
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just to keep this in the news - i also approached the diocese with my other hat on, as a member of the press .. and all they did was refer me back to carter jonas, the land agents, which I thought was pretty useless, but just showed me how we (the press) get fobbed off a lot these days.
back in the good old days you could just speak to the person you needed to, but now cos they are all scared that we are rottweilers it's all done via blasted press officers, just another layer of bureaucracy and red tape! Woof woof
wonder if carter jonas will be more or less friendly when I approach them formally ...
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am slowly attracting a few fellow squatters. my neighbour's dad is a retired churchman from these parts, so he will be getting his ears bashed soon no doubt. as I've said on another posting, I've stuck up a poster now and hope to get a few more digging in with us soon
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latest news: got this response from diocese environment officer today .. basically pushing buck back to glebe committtee, who then say go to the land agent.
Dr Ian James wrote:
I am a non-stipendiary priest in my spare time
in the Winkfield benefice and I have the task of Environment Advisor to the
Diocese. Environment as usually understood is a huge topic and not one which
can be handled adequately by such a highly part time person as me.
Consequently, my brief as environment officer is simply to help the Diocese
and its people work towards conforming with the Kyoto protocol on carbon
dioxide emissions. In that context, my preference for Diocesan land use
would be that which sequesters a maximum amount of carbon. That would mean
putting it to woodland, where the biomass per unit area is two or three
orders of magnitude greater than cultivating annual crops (where indeed, the
ground is simply bare for much of the year). But I do not have a place on
the Glebe Committee and this is not formal Diocesan policy.
I am sorry not to be more helpful at this stage. I will give the matter more
thought when I return from holiday. Meanwhile, if you can produce a case
based on lowering carbon dioxide emissions and sequestering atmospheric
carbon, I would be more inclined to support it.
- Ian James.
I've resisted the urge to write "'DUH!' since when is a static allotment ever gonna be pumping higher carbon dioxide emissions and sequestering less carbon than building loadsa business units that will then attract vehicles and people etc who will bring loadsa carbon with em" .... and I'm not sure about his use of the word sequestering - seems to mean confiscating or putting away in a room, according to my dictionary. There is some technical term about ions that is similar, but I'm not sure. I know you guys are fonts of all wisdom - so what does he mean, and how can I tell him in long words, other than DUHHHHHH!!!!!!!
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perhaps you could offer to grow green manure crops instead of having bare soil during the Winter - Winter fava beans?
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Hi Larry and all,
Correct me if I`m wrong but I think Sequestering has to do with "locking away" hence the carbon that would be in the atmosphere causing global warming is instead locked away into carbon compounds in trees ie. wood.
I did a net search and found the oddest thing .... http://www.seercentre.org.uk/faq.htm
This is an extract,
"How does using rock dust help us manage climate change?
Under normal conditions - that is, without the negative impact of humankind in the last 200 years, it is largely the annual rate of weathering of rocks which controls atmospheric carbon dioxide. Using rock dust accelerates the weathering process by hundreds or maybe thousands of years, depending on how much is applied. The calcium and magnesium content in the rocks combines with atmospheric carbon to form carbonates. The faster silicate rocks "weather", the faster carbon is removed from the atmosphere.
Weathering is accelerated by the action of organic acids released from leaf-fall and other organic mulches. Rock dust, applied with organic mulches, simulates the natural weathering process, sequestering atmospheric carbon and replace eroded soils. It is a vital weapon, along with reducing carbon emissions and maintaining surface vegetation, in stabilising atmospheric carbon.
The use of rock dust will reduce or even eliminate our dependence on artificially produced chemical fertilisers, often based on fossil fuels, which themselves contribute to climate change and degrade soils."
So minerals in the rock dust dissolve in the acid mulches and combine with carbon from the atmosphere and get trapped in the soil.
Therefore our lotties help to manage climate change especially if we use rock dust and I`m sure we all do...don`t we ? ;D
Col
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Jenni,
What does your tenancy agreement say?
If you're in the right take 'em to court: the small claims court costs very little and causes great embarrassment.
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Larry,
Dr Ian James is a jobsworth beaurocrat,
but, sadly, he's right.
Woodland would trap carbon (dioxide) and keep it locked up for decades, even centuries.
Your veg would trap it until you ate it and breathed out the carbon dioxide.
Even green manure would keep it only for another year.
Thinking about the airfield, our microlight field is 3 wide runways between the farmers crops. He even runs his tractor mower over the runways for us!
Could you have lotties between the runways?
I've done a bit of guerilla gardening. Mostly I won in the long run. The best was a huge garden behind a leased shop in the village which we kept tidy and productive for three years.
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dr james is right, but while wooodland is better than lottie for carbon, lottie is better than building, and running light industrial unit.
latest development - carter jonas land agent have replaced my poster saying 'if you want to save this allotment call me' with their own letter saying this allotment is managed by cj - any inqs. GREAT! They admit it is a lottie, no mention of developing it. me and bob (and MM I hope) are going to send them chqs and say 'fantastic, we've been wanting to know who owned the land'...see where that gets us.
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great news, count me in fl.
MM
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Got this from the Carbon Sequestration Research Officer of the
World Land Trust:
I would love to help with your campaign to save your allotments, my
sister has been enthusing about her allotment since she began using it a
few years back, and I am frequently the beneficiary of its produce.
Unfortunately you have caught me at a very bad time, I have a website
deadline for 3 weeks, with the launch of the consumer carbon balanced
programme. Following that I am leaving for Ecuador on the 16th of June
for an expedition I am leading and have had very little time to organise
so far. As such I really do not have time to research this for you.
If this can wait until September I would be glad to examine the carbon
emissions and environmental issues susrrounding it for you. However for
now I can only offer some pointers:
1. Carbon Sequestration levels for an allotment I would imagine will be
quite low. Unfortunately the above ground biomass will be low because of
a lack of dense woody matter. Below ground biomass will also most likely
be low due to cultivation.
2. Burning biomatter on a bonfire really has very little bad effect on
the environment, in that by growing that biomass in the first place, the
same amount of carbon dioxide has been removed from the atmosphere as is
subsequently released.
3. The key to proving a case I imagine will be the energy and emissions
associated with building a development its self. This will be
considerable as concrete alone is responsible for very high emissions
from chemical reactions, and the energy required in building is very high.
Please feel free to call me at any time for more generaly advice, I am
sorry I cannot be of more assistance at this time.
Kindest regards
Oliver Blakeman
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which all sounds good to me! I've forwarded it to the church blokey in the hope it makes complete sense to him! Do you reckon we need to make our case more scientifically?
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Hi Larry,
I`m not a scientist but......
If it comes to, "My scientist is bigger than your scientist" you will lose. I`d say try to cover all angles as different supporters will have different strengths and areas of focus. Let people help in any way they can.
I think science could be a distraction, one step removed from the emotional angle which might get you more support and impact with the media. Social, community and health benefits are less quantifiable but easier for us all to be "experts" on. Within these ideas we are all affected according to our own situations, relationships and jobs.
Have you got a human interest story like "Digging made me fit enough to survive a heart attack" for the press, or "I used to weigh 3 tons but now I`m a stick who eats only what I grow" they love all that. How about ,"Jamie Oliver would be proud - my kids eat organic compost they turn themselves"
Col
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we're doing the human interest thing too! NSALG are hopefully going to come and have a look with view to support, merllin's mum is hopefully getting the Primary Care Trust on board - re exercise, etc and the town council are going to look at it at their next meeting. NSALG tell me that if six people in a town ask the council for allotments there is some statutory thing to look into it, too
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well done it sounds as though you have got things moving in the right direction
Good luck
Ron
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see my other postings on the board re email campaign..
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I sent mine last week
Ron
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hey jenni
what's ahppened re your lottie? Been so wrapped up in my probs forgot about yours - any further forward?