Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: manicscousers on May 13, 2007, 14:42:07
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couple of pictures of a plot that was rotovated before weeding
just a thought, 90% of the weeds are dock leaves
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Blimey, hope it's not yours. :)
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no, thank goodness :)
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There's something to be said for painstakingly extracting every bit of every root. Rotavating is the last option, imho.
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I think the guy who had my plot before me rotovated everywhere Aargh!!!!!
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Nice big Poly tunnel though!
;D
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If that's all docks, they're probably seedlings rather than bits of root regrowing. The seeds can survive a century in the ground, and they sprout like mad when the ground's disturbed.
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Thanks for that, makes me feel all the hard work by hand is worth it! :D
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this should be the first photo that newbies see !
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Before they go and hire a Rotovator.
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Using a rotovator seems to be frowned on by alot of people but for any new plot holders who are struggling to get their plot ino some kind of shape I say rotovate.
We doubled our plot size this winter and started to dig the new ground but with a young family and work commitments it wasn't going to be possible to dig it all so we hired a rotovator and did the whole lot in less than 2 hours.This enabled us to mark out paths and put up our fencing.
Sure enough the bind weed has come up but with the soil being light and airy its been easy to pull up all the shoots and every piece comes up with a root.The result of rotovating has been that our plot is far more usable than it would have been as I am sure we would still be digging.We have planted quite alot of crops with the odd piece of easily removed bind weed popping up.
For us the benefits of rotovating have far outweighed the drawbacks.
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mmm I was put off rotovation by some old timers for this, my first year, and now I am quite pleased that I dug by hand because the weeds are not too bad. It is hard work though and I must admit that I am going to try to do as much as I can this winter to suffocate and eliminate the weeds so I don't have so much work to do next spring. Still, I guess the second year is always easier than the first?? (or is this a myth too ?? ;D
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I can understand your argument, Sillybilly. I guess as long as you don't think rotavating is an alternative to weeding rather than an addition, it can be a good way of making an impact on an overgrown plot.
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also, this was a very heavy clay soil, the second year and subsequent ones were harder, he just keeps rotovating it :o :o :)
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I agree sillybilly, we've done almost exactly the same this year on our plot. Totally new to us and hadn't been looked after properly by our predecessor ::). Neighb's rotovated it for us, and even though the weeds are back with a vengence, i'm glad we did it. There's just no way we'd have been able to dig a decent size of ground to grow anything, not with full time jobs and a house to look after as well!
We will gradually hand dig & weed it, but probably one bed per year over the next four years, but in the meantime at least we'll be able to harvest some crops ;D
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I rotivated my first plot last year and have done it again on my new plot, it worked for me. I'm not getting many weeds at all on my first plot now few here and there.
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We have manually dug 3 beds, and are on our 4th, it has taken us a month so far.
I popped to teh allotment today, the first time in just over a week.
One of the plots where another newbie rotavated is completely covered in weeds, so much so that I could hardly make out their crops, I think they are potatoes! Ours is fairly weed free, thank goodness.
This rain has made the soil much softer to dig, but now I find that the weeds are sticking to my gloves!! LOL!
Hoping to finish the digging this week.
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My husband was helping me put guttering on my shed and he stung himself with nettle. he was frantically looking for a dock leaf and I was thinking oops! I weeded out everyone that I could find!
Fortunately there was one over the fence.
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It's been done to death on here, my view in summary:
If you rotovate once then leave it, you're in trouble.
If you redo it every 3 weeks to a month for a few months you will get on top of the weeds. Even the docks, although they're usually the last to die, along with the dandelions.
I know that I wouldn't have a chance of keeping on top of my 2 plots without the help of my Howard Gem.... (thoroughly recommended, btw).
Good luck to anyone who digs by hand, though. I'm not saying that you shouldn't, just that there is another way that works. :)
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Aaah you wusses!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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You all seem to be overlooking the physical and therapeutic value of digging. digging seems to have become a dirty word over the past couple of decades thanks to television and the morons that present the programs.
Clearing the top growth from a neglected plot can be difficult as can the removal of various stubborn roots but the actual digging is the easy bit. No rotovator will dig into a neglected allotment to a full spade depth even though it looks like it has. Usually 3-4 inches of cultivated depth is all you can hope for once everything is leveled off. Rotovators do a wonderful job of smashing up the clods and stirring in the manure but they will never achieve the quality results that a simple spade will give.
Why do you find it so hard to do a simple task like digging? You are doing it all wrong and you are unfit and out of condition.
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Thank god I've seen this, I was thinking of hiring a rotovator for the second half of my plot, I think I'd rather spend the hard work digging the weeds out now though. The first half of my plot is doing fine, no major weeds growing at all.
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I'm unfit and out of condition? ;D ;D ;D
How long would it take you to dig 900m2 of allotment, Eristic? With a full time job, kids etc. Before you get to the growing bit that is.
Well I go down for about an hour every night, which just about gives me time to water the greenhouses and do the little jobs that we all have to do. I could spend 3 hours a night digging for a week and do the same job in 30 minutes with the rotovator.
I get home from work around 6-6.30 pm which means that I have no light until BST to use at the allotment. By then it's busy busy busy time.....
Dirty word? No, but given the choice.... ;)
Oh, and why do you have a rotovator in your avatar if you don't agree with it? ::)
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Thank god I've seen this, I was thinking of hiring a rotovator for the second half of my plot, I think I'd rather spend the hard work digging the weeds out now though. The first half of my plot is doing fine, no major weeds growing at all.
No, I wouldn't recommend hiring one. I'd only use it if it could be used regularly.
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How long would it take you to dig 900m2 of allotment, Eristic?
At an easy pace of 15m2 per hour it's 60 hours but spread over 6 months Nov - Apr it's only 2 hrs a week. Given that most digging should be done in the winter and visiting the plot after work is not an option then a good solid Sunday should see something like 60-100m2 knocked over. Easy.
Oh, and why do you have a rotovator in your avatar if you don't agree with it?
I'm not anti rotovator. Whatever gave you that idea? Mind you, I've had it for many years as a business tool prepping gardens for turfing where depth of cultivation is not required. I would never buy or hire one for the allotment but as I have it I use it for breaking the soil to a tilth after digging and for stirring the shit.
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At an easy pace of 15m2 per hour it's 60 hours but spread over 6 months Nov - Apr it's only 2 hrs a week. Given that most digging should be done in the winter and visiting the plot after work is not an option then a good solid Sunday should see something like 60-100m2 knocked over. Easy.
So that's 9-15 good solid Sundays then? ::)
The wife will be pleased.
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Thanks for that, makes me feel all the hard work by hand is worth it! :D
Seriosuly !
I'll just think of this photo when I've been digging for hours and it feels like I'm getting no where. Thanks.
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I feel a renewed interest in Hydroponics coming on!
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Well, I AM unfit and out of condition. ;D
I use a rotovator, but not to do the primary digging on the plot. Like RobinOTHood I don't have time in the week during the winter to do anything on the lottie, so it's weekends only. I can comfortably dig and weed one raised bed of 10 sq metres, then I'm knackered for the day as far as digging is concerned. Allotmenteering is supposed to be a pleasure, not a trial of strength AFAIC.
I suppose, given a suitable incentive, that I could just about dig 60 sq metres in a day, but only if I was just turning it and not constantly bending down to weed it. I'm pretty sure that I physically couldn't do 100.
But having done the initial digging, the ground then needs to be manured and cultivated, and that's when a rotovator can really help.
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Where do you arrive at that ridiculous figure of 15 sq mts per hour? Dug, broken up, AND raked level is that? Who are you kidding? You must think we came down in the last shower of rain. Unless of course you are fitter than a member of the SAS that is.
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calm down, people..WE DID NOT DIG our allotment, we also didn't use a rotovator..
I didn't expect to start a storm with this, I just wanted to show what can happen..the guy who did this still comes out with a harvest, his plants just grow with the weeds ;D
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15 sq m's yeah right. You must be an Octopus. An SAS octopus.
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I'm with eristic.
I am just re-claiming a bit of my plot every year (the rest covered with black plastic), and I will really miss the digging when it's all done.
The stress relief is like nothing else. The sense of mission - the one enemy (well 5 or 6 enemies), the sense of achievement...
And I thought I was alone in feeling like this...
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We have been here before.
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,28630.msg283200#msg283200
Nothing wrong with digging (I just don't have the time at the moment) but rotovators are fine if used properly. The idea that you can only get a few inches of prepared soil is just not correct.
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HI Guys,
I fully agree with the statement that if you rotivate the weeds grow back like mad, mine was rotivated and if i blink the weeds appear where are another allotment tolder took months digging his over manualy and his is still weed free.
BUT
I have a bad back and arthritus i simply cant dig the plot over - so what is a girl to do.
I am now left with a site thats getting there but i appreciate its going to take longer. The weeds have grown over the weed membrane that i bought as not knowing what i was doing bought the light stuff which is now disintergrating.
My focus is getting the beds ( about half of them in place this year ) in place and planted whilst keepting on top of the weeds that i can. I am organic so i cant spray.
I am going to pull up all the membrane that does not yet have a raised bed going though it and put down fresh good stuff and cover with wood chips. Yes this is me repeating work i had done already but the membrane is disintergrating anyway so i need to get it out before it becomes part of the soil.
The membrane and weedy paths that are down and i cant do anything about i am just going to patch up any holes in the membrane and add more wood chips :-[
As the rain is helping i am pulling out as much of the dock that i can and some of the roots which i am managing to get out whole are up to 2 foot long ;)
Some of the other weeds are just comming up from the membrane but some take whole chunks of weed membrane with them >:(
Cambourne7
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Hi miniroots, i do agree with the point both you and eristic make (although you make it much more eloquently ;) ) However, it's important to remember that not everybody is capable of the heavy work of digging, no matter how much fun it is!
Also, some of us work full time and run a house, therefore don't have an hour or two to spare every day (or however many full Sundays it was) to dig the entire plot in our first year :o
I think the point is to have respect for everyone's way of doing things, after all we're all in it for the same reasons - all the lovely veg ;)
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cambourne, we put thick cardboard under the weed membrane on our paths it kept the weeds from coming through, don't know if it would help ?
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yes someone suggested it 2 me just need to get some
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someone on here reckons electric shops throw it out, I can't remember who and i can't find it now :-\
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Ok. If I've upset anyone I apologise but I was asked how long it would take me to dig 900m2. The 15m2 is an easygoing rate of work for single spit digging for anyone who is of reasonable fitness and mobility. Obviously anyone who is incapacitated in any way has to overcome the hurdles any way they can but that was not really what this thread was addressing.
As it happens, I am currently in the process of digging over a neighbouring plot for the man as he is 84 and needs a knee replacement which he cannot have until his heart problems are stabilised. It is from this digging that I calculated the time and that was rounded down considerably. On my own plot, I was digging at a more sedate 2m2 per hour but that was double-digging 18" depth, compost incorporated in lower spit and fresh horse manure incorporated in the upper layers.
Someone mentioned strength. This is where you are all going wrong because digging is not about strength, it is a skillful art. To do any digging you do need to be fairly fit or take things easy until fitness returns, but most of all you need to do it properly.
By the way, I cannot afford the luxury of retirement and I too have to work for a living, do the shopping, cooking, flat cleaning as well as feeding the cat. (Yes! it's still alive.) as well as atempting to sit a degree. Rarely do I get to my allotment before 7pm and I do not expect to work hard but consider it a pleasure just to be there. It's each to his or her own and rotovators can be used at will. I forgot to mention in the earlier post one other reason why I still use my old machine - It's jolly good fun.
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A month ago when we got the allotment it took me 3 hours to double dig, remove every trace of weed I could see 1m2! I enjoyed the diggin, it was relaxing, and even though it was slow going I felt like I was achieving something.
I am now getting better at it!! Yesterday I did 1.5x1m in 45mins!! Although the soil was much softer after the recent rain!
When I started I could barely use a fork! I don't think I had ever used one before, getting the fork into the soil was the first difficulty, and then lifting the weight of the soil on the fork, trying not to drop it off where I didnt want it to go, or dropping the fork and soil together!!(dh used to do the digging, but now it's a joint effort!)
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sue Steve, I feel the same. I think if i had a bigger plot I would consider using rotavator on clear soil but not to churn up the weeds!!
I do love digging. I find it very therapeutic but then i have really nice soil, no clay so I'm lucky i s'pose.
It's also given me kickass muscles and I've lost about 1/2 stone so I'm happy! ;D ;D ;D ;D