Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: jsheard on September 05, 2003, 14:17:39
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Why would one area of allotments be abandoned?...
We live in an area of many sets of allotments, and set off with the map of vacant/taken plots from the Allotment Office.
All those on our doorstep are full. 15 minutes' walk away, there is a collection of around 70 allotments, at least 95% of which are vacant and massively overgrown (many years' worth, in most cases). But we spotted one quite good vacant one there.
15 minutes' further on, up a very, very steep hill, there is a set of allotments which look like one imagines they should: 95% occupancy, water, society-in-a-shed etc.
Can anyone speculate on why the first set might be so derelict? I can think of a couple of possible reasons: 1. there are no houses in the valley bottom, where these allotments are. 2. there are no services or management. But should we, too, avoid them?
Any help appreciated.
Jim
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maybe if its a valley bottom they become waterlogged? also if its mostly unoccupied maybe there might be vandalism problems, were the occupied ones ok?
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Hi, legless.
No sign of waterlogging (the site is slightly sloping, just above the valley bottom) - in fact, our own garden is on the same contour line, a mile along the valley, and drains well.
No signs of vandalism in the *very* few occupied lots. Not much sign, in fact, of any life whatsoever - even the paths between the allotments are badly overgrown.
Jim
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maybe people are being actively discouraged from renting there so that the land can be sold or something.... dunno, but i had to wait a year on a list for any allotment at all so i would have snapped anyones hand off for even an overgrown one like that!
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check the weeds growing there - it may indicate the problem - marestail? ground elder?
maybe the soil became unworkable after years of non-organic cultivation
maybe the soil is toon shallow
or maybe there was a rash of what we have at our site - someone with about 8 plots is threatening to leave the country!
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Maybe the appeal of the 95% occupied plot is greater? Is it that tribal thing where we like to be in a group? Ozzy - what's the psychology on this one?
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Many, many thanks for the suggestions so far - they have helped me cancel out some concerns. At least no-one has yet said 'NO! NEVER take a plot in a derelict set of allotments' etc.
If I said that on the 20+ row where 'our' allotment is, not one is occupied and the far end of the row is returning to woodland, would that make anyone more negative?
I can see practical/psychological reasons why people have shunned these allotments, yet filled up nearby sites. And I quite like solitude, so maybe that's not a problem.
The plot we are considering is unusual there, since it was clearly worked until maybe 2 years ago, judging by the overgrowth, and whoever had it was serious - the hard structures, for example, are solid pieces of work. The weeds and overgrowth don't seem to be contain anything unusual or worrying.
Jim
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you may find if you take the first step - others will follow! My only thought is that in some areas bottoms of hills can be frost pockets? The other thing is it may be just that the older generation of plotters left, and there was a gap - on our site there are lots of 60 yrs + plotters, and a few in their 30's - nothing in between. Is it in the kind of area where you can wander round, knock on a few of the nearest doors and ask - or perhaps wander into the hut of the 'folk on the hill'?
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I think you're right Ceri - it is that tribal thing again..where one starts, others follow! Having no services is a bit if a turn off for some folk. If it is a council site, perhaps you could encourage them to tidy up and improve a little - nothing expensive, just a bit of cosmetic stuff for PR purposes.
Actually, that might be it. If it is a privately owned site the council and the library (often the first ports of call for lottie seekers) may not know about it to direct people there - if it is council owned maybe ask what their long term plans for the site are in an effort to get some improvements scheduled.
The council didn't know about our privately managed site and didn't have them on their map! Interest and lettings have increased considerably this year since details were placed in the libraries and the local internet (even if I can't find it.... :-/)
Might be worth a little research/lobbying on wet days over the autumn/winter when you can't get out to dig!
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JS, are you in Sheffield by any chance?!! Most allotment sites are in woodland parks here and the state of some of them is beyond belief. Council run is probably the reason.
You would think it would be more cost effective in the long run for them to make the allotments which have disappeared into the woods, at least accessible to prospective tenants. I've recently been looking for a second allotment and on the four sites I visted some of the allotments marked as vacant literally no longer existed - it was just load of trees and no boundries and no access!
I found one eventually but I've never seen so many brambles in all my life (hence my user name ;) ). My last allotment had sections of bramble and these areas, once cleared were of poor soil quality. I am worried that my new plot has poor soil, I haven't a clue at the moment because there is at least 5 foot in height of bramble to clear before I can check the soil. Can anyone advise on the possible state of the soil underneath?
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Hi, bramble.
Yes, indeed, I am in Sheffield! Sounded familiar, eh?
The area of allotments I am talking about is Hagg House (sometimes called Hagg Hill 2). Your description of inaccessible plots and vanished boundaries rang bells. But we have just taken over one which looks like it has been worked at least within living memory and started clearing.
Where are you?
Jim.
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Hi Jim,
Amazing eh?!! Your description of the abandoned allotments in the valley bottom with no nearby houses and then 15 minutes up a very steep hill with some more allotments which are worked, sounded so much like Rivelin Valley and Hagg Lane is was spooky lol !
When I telephoned for maps, I was told that Rivelin was really bad, so they didn't even send maps for those. I've never actually been down there but I can imagine how bad it is. There were only about four available at Hagg Hill, two had disappeared and two were beside the road which I didn't fancy.
I went to see some at Meersbrook which is huge and quite well organised but most of the vacant ones were around the edge of the area, ie taken over by woods. I've ended up at Norton Lees, there was just one available. It is very overgrown but at least I can get in there and see where the boundries begin and end!
Are you at Hagg Hill or Rivelin Valley? I might go down Rivelin and check them out. Where do you access them at Rivelin? Are they opposite the bottom of Hagg Lane?
As far as why they are so abandoned, I heard that Rivelin had had a lot of problems with vandalism in the past. I'm not sure of the situation now though, as it sounds as though most of the allotments have disappeared, so there's not much left to vandalise. To be honest, I think it's disgusting the way the council let them get so bad, they come and keep paths clear and that's it.
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Bramble:
Hagg House allotments are bordered by Rivelin Valley Road - Hagg Hill - Bole Hill Lane. (Hagg Hill 1, where you considered, is higher up the hill, around Long Lane/Stephen Hill).
Our new plot is close to the corner of Hagg Hill and Rivelin Valley Road. Most there are in terrible condition, as your contact told you - but for car-less me, it's a 10-minute walk along Rivelin Valley Road from where I live.
Rivelin Valley allotments are on the other side of Rivelin Valley Road, near the river. They are all taken, according to the Council. There was a lot of allotment vandalism around here - a set opposite our house were all torched a couple of years ago. I figure that Hagg House is a bit off the track for evil kiddies, though.
We moved here from Meersbrook Park Road a year ago! Lovely area.
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Hi again Jim,
Ok, it sounds like there are three sets of allotments round there. Hagg Hill (nr Stephen Hill - fully occupied except for four rubbish ones) Rivelin Valley which are the ones near you that are supposedly fully occupied but vandalised! Torched OMG lol :o And then the allotment you have which is called Hagg House. Hmmm, I wonder why they didn't send me maps for those - I could have beat you to it lol ;) - sounds ok if there's remains of buildings there etc.
Anyway, good luck with it and like you say, I think it's a bit too far out for those d**n kids to be ar*ed to get to.
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Hey fellas - lobby that council! Ring up and ask to speak to the allotments officer. Hassle your local councillor. Sounds like you have loads of potential plots - can the NSALG help or give advice?
http://www.nsalg.demon.co.uk/
I wonder of the Leisure Department even know about some of the sites.....go give somebody at the council a hard time!
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I'm from Sheffield too and I know what you mean...
The allotments office sent me to look at 4 site...
Most of them you would have needed to be a tree surgeon or good at jungle survival to even tackle them, and I really don't mind a challenge. One site they sent me to I couldn't even find it although I was searching for hours.
I have took an allotment on privately owned ones at Gleadless Townend. They are all taken but one, have water and we have a trading hut. Its got about 100 lotties and the people are brilliant.
Mine was really overgrown but it was better than those that the council own and just couldn't give a toss about....
Why don't our council get a grip and clear some of them...perhaps people would take them on then...
oh well...thats Sheffield city council for ya :D
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Hi, Lil.
Sheffield grumblers unite!
Our plot's not great, but I was determined that if we took one, I had to be able to walk easily to it. This rather limited options.
The plots either side of the one we have taken are, I think, lost for ever (mature trees). The good news is, we have stumbled across a raised concrete lump in the overgrown lane, inside which was...a water supply!
Jim
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LIL are there any vacant ones where you are? I've just discovered today that my new allotment is in the shade for most of the day unless I chop down about 10 foot of hedge!
Lucky you Jim re the water supply, maybe if you ask them nicely they will actually switch it on for you. :-/
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Hi ya Bramble
I know there is one that definately isn't taken, they have just chopped it all down to soil, and the hedge to 5 foot, and its got a hut on ( mind you, its only the muck holding it together! ;D)
The only thing is that it is quite small, but they are just sending letters out I think to people who haven't tended any for quite a while, so maybe there will be some coming free....
I honestly can't praise ours enough!!! And we have WATER!!! ;D Soils good too
Call at the hut Sunday mornings, 10 -12 and see Alan.
Tell him Lisa told ya about it, he might give me discount at the shop!!! ;D (only joking)
Try ours, its brill
Lisa
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Forgot to tell ya too Bramble that those that are already tenants get first pick if one becomes available.
Hope this is helpful
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by the way (again ;D)
its on the first bit of Herdings Road, in case you didn't know
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Hi Lisa,
<they have just chopped it all down to soil, and the hedge to 5 foot>
WOW sounds like heaven lol!! At the moment I've decided to persevere with my new one. I've cut some of the hedge down (took 6 foot off it) ! and at least I can see sunlight now. I will definitely check out Herdings over council if I get too bogged down with this one. Council - never again basically!
Just for a nosey, I went to Hagg House today. :o ??? :o it's about the worst I've seen as far as overgrowth for a whole site and I thought I'd seen some bad ones. Absolutely disgusting the whole thing. No paths to speak of and the water taps have been taken off. JIM I suggest you gently INSIST that the council sorts out the water, they are getting away with too much.
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Hi, Bramble.
So, you ventured into the wilds of Hagg House, eh?
The one we took is do-able - I'll put some piccies up tomorrow to show what progress we've made. But yes, most are in a horrible state.
Incidentally, have you misunderstood my post about finding a water supply? We haven't tried it, but the concrete lump containing a tap was, we hope, a good find. Or do you know something we don't?
Jim
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Hi Jim,
The only water supplies I noticed were two stand pipe type things (grey, about 3 foot high) and both had the tap missing. I must have missed the one you have found. Are you being charged for water? If so then there's obviously access to it somewhere.
I found approx 4 "just about" usable allotments with remains of sheds, and about the same number of shedless ones. There was only one I noticed that had anything growing - a row of runner beans, on their own, surrounded by weeds :-/
I began on the lower path and hoped it would lead me in a semi-circle to the top path, but after losing myself in 5 foot weeds I turned back and headed up the road to the second row.
I really look forward to seeing your pics. To be honest if there IS water, then yours is no worse than mine - except for the paths to it!
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Hi, Bramble.
Hm - if you were on the lower path, I'm sure you would have spotted ours. 3 in on the left, the only one you can actually walk into. A pity - yesterday was the first day I haven't been there. I could have offered you a coffee :)
Piccies at http://www.jsheard.co.uk/allotment/index.html
Jim
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WOW, you've made some excellent progress! I'm sure I never saw that one, but I only kind of glanced in the ones that you could actually see lol.
Anyway you've made me feel way behind now, because we got them at about the same time I think, so I'll have to get down to things a bit faster :)