Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Merlins Mum on April 14, 2005, 19:57:00
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I'm still waiting to get my lottie but people keep warning me about vandalism. So I was wondering how many of you have experienced vandalism on your lotties or is it generally just kids mucking about or takings a few veg.
MM
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I think it depends on where the allotment site is. Some places don't seem to have too much trouble. The site where my plot is has a big housing estate nearby so I've been told that we do have some problems. I think that as long as I don't leave valuble tools on the plot and hide anything else I should be ok. I'm not going to put a door on my shed so that they don't need to break it down if they really want to go inside.
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when you say problems, do you know any more detail - vandalism can go from the odd kicked bucket to full scale trash and burn - can you have a wander round the site and ask the plotters?
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I agree, it could be classed as a number of things. I know some people have basically had their entire crops stolen overnight but that is specific targetting. On our site we have an 8ft fence and padlocks so only plot holders can get in but we are in a City.
Best to ask around at your (proposed) lottie. I rejected one I was offered nearer to home as it had no security and they had the odd problem but I know some areas are hard to get lottie's in.
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I've heard we used to get lot of vandalism on our (disputed) site. one allotment holder told me some kids said they were going to burn down his shed later. they didn't, they just pushed it over!!
bring back the birch!
famous last words, but I'd rather someone nicked something to actually eat than just a bit of mindless vandalism...
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The problem on our Lottie (is that after spending £30,000 on an 8ft steel fence that nearly blew over in the wind followed by the fencers proping it up with steel rods.) ::)
The local children can roll underneath it in several places, as the fence falls short of the ground by at least a foot. ::) I counted no less than 8 young kids in there one Sunday, I felt quite threatened me being there all on my own. >:(
I have a meeting on site next week with the secretary, some peeps from the council and the fencing company, little ole me showing the white collar workers how insecure the Lottie is, not exactly rocket science. ::)
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We have wasteful vandalism about twice a year, just kids coming in and pulling up veg. randomly and leaving it lying around. As some one said it wouldn't be so bad if they were going to eat it.
Mind you we are not allowed sheds or anything permenant over a metre tall so there's nothing to attract the kids in in the first place.
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We had problems with kids stoning greenhouses and then we had a major burn out which took two fire tenders to sort, that was the last straw so the council put up a 8ft+ steel fence and that seems to have sorted the problems out, we are nearly a year on with not one incident.
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hi all
just a few things
in preston there is quite a few lottie sites and well there are good sites and well good ones in bad areasi feel that kids are only going to have a look round and well as i have found out they just want to cause trouble as in hideing your spade and stuff
my shed is well no picture but it works for me, all i store there is some old tools which are good for me to use but look not that good and some plastic and some bird seed
if you have a new nice looking one they will want to look in it
second thing a site down the road got toataly burnt out as there was gas left in more than one shed and the little buggers set the lot on fire and BANG
:o
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Thanks for all your input. As I had more than one choice of where to have a lottie but in very different locations I wanted to see where other lottie holders were located if they experienced mindless vandalism.
I have now made my choice.
thanks
MM
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and what's your choice MM? Btw, I stuck up a little sign asking folk to calll me if they want to save our allotment and/or want a plot....see how long it lasts before its torn down -that will be a great indicator!!
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On our plots at Gatwick the vandelism is mindless ???
No veggies taken but frames destroyed and any glass smashed!
Oh the sound of breaking glass...........
I just got some more stuff destined for the landfill,some perspex.
Made a cold frame(tall and big) for plot/pumpkin and got a comment about buying ones so tall! I said it was home-made from old placcy green house frame,perspex & rivets and wa sworried about vandals? the reply I got was that it was plastic not glass so not such a target!
When we first got plot we padlocked the metal shed inherited with a MASSIVE padlock and the doors got kicked in(in school hols)
Roof ripped off.
When left unlocked and open,nothing happened.
Rivetted roof back on so their little hands get cut before they pull roof off again ;D
Would rather they asked for veg and I gave them some and they appreciated it......
Stopped some "kids" the other day and asked what they were doing and they said it our mums plot, so chatted with them and joked a bit about helping mum(which they didnt) and they said bye as they left ;)
Various situations in diffrent places,some is stolen veg and some is just young pratts bored.
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Note:when it first happened I wanted to tear the buggers apart and camp out there. But was indicated to enjoy plot and ignore vandalism, dont worry too much about it, we only got touched compared to some but stay with it,contact police to report ANY incident and ask for incident number and continue...
Happy plotting, it is worth having one.
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Thanks Andy H. Yes it's certainly the mindless vandalism that really gets to you. We get it where I work so am familiar with reporting to police etc. On a Monday morning you wonder what you are going to find. Then you get told it's because they have nothing to do. I think that's complete rubbish, there are things to do but some kids just want to cause trouble. Thing is they spoil it for everyone.
Yeah made a great choice I reckon fl. Didn't see your sign when we were there this morning, please don't say you put it up Saturday! ???
MM
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good stuff. it shows how good the town council is though doesn't it? (sarcasm).
No, I only stuck the notice up at 1pm. no calls yet though.
I might make a board this week rather than just sticking a piece of paper in a plastic folder, which could last a bit longer, I reckon;-)
Letter to the church and estate agent will go out this week, pleading for our plots amid increasing interest in the town, facts and figures etc.
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When we first got plot we padlocked the metal shed inherited with a MASSIVE padlock and the doors got kicked in(in school hols)
Roof ripped off.
When left unlocked and open,nothing happened.
Hi Andy, I'm thinking of having a shed, when you had padlocks was there anything pinched, ??? and when you left it unlocked was there anything worth pinching ??? I hear a few peeps say they leave the door off or unlocked and was wondering what things are left in there ???
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Over Christmas, every shed on our lotties which had a window had that window smashed.
Those which had no windows but which were locked were forced open. The one shed that was all aluminium (after the owner's previous one was burned out in the previous spate of damage) was punctured by hitting it repeatedly with the signpost showing the plot numbers and locations. Mine isn't locked and nothing valuable left inside (which is also deliberately a mess). They took out the chair and threw it in my leeks. They stomped on all my net-covered brassica frames.
I felt most sorry for the newbie folk who had built a recycled material shed and put a stained glass rose in. That went.
Fortunately it hasn't put them off. But I sincerely hope that those... alleged members of the human race one day get their comeuppance.
moonbells
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hesitant to post and tempt fate! we don't have too much vandalism, my next door neighbour who is also a plot holder has had his shed broken into a couple of times over the years but i don;'t keep anything i can't afford to lose down there. however when it does happen it is very bad, we had a terrible incident in 2003 where a plotholder suffered the horror of having about 100 chickens and ducks murdered horribly, i won't go into details but i'm shocked that i share this planet with the people who could do that.
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Nothing of value to be taken and nothing taken,just vadalsim :(
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Oh Legless how awful, :'(
I wouldn't give much for their chances if I could get my hands on those responsible, it just sickens me. I'd bring back a lot more than the birch! but if caught they get not much more than a slap on the wrist.
I must say I would never ever risk having anything like chickens or ducks (as much as I would love them) on my lottie for fear that someone would hurt them.
MM
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Had my lottie now for just over a month and a half and so far had 3 instances of vandalism. Only minor stuff at the moment but just waiting to see what happens next. My friend has got a greenhouse but we're going to give it a bit more time before it goes in. On a final note, those who are doing the vandalism aren't aware but they are being watched....
Mark
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That's really sad - I don't think we'll ever understand how anyone could do anything like that. We also would love to keep chickens but cant have them at home (2 german shepherds - one who thinks he is a cat!!) and wouldn't dare risk it on the lottie.
When we got our plot we were told that vandalism is a bit of a problem and that we should leave our shed (when we get one) unlocked, and not leave anything valuable there. A couple of weeks ago though some kids got in (although the site is locked, they can get in through neighbouring gardens) and did quite a bit of damage including wrecking someones new £300 rotavator. since then we are having second thoughts about even putting a shed up but its a bit of a pain having to take all our tools everytime and there's always something we forget to take!
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It really does seem to be a nationwide problem. My golden rule is that if I can't afford to loose it then I don't leave it down at the plot. It does mean loading the car up each time though. I do lock the shed but with such a pathetic lock that it springs open if you sneeze near it. We haven't had any major problems for a while but I do know of a couple of guys who had their poly tunnels slashed over the last year or so.
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We're in a village and our site had had no vandalism for many years. Until last year. Then quite a lot of sheds were pushed over, fences smashed and things broken. Nothing was taken, they just wanted to break things.
Which is a shame as the allotments are friemdly and there's lots of young kids about (including mine) during the day. Opinion seems to be divided about whether it's the village yoof or others exported from Chelmsford & Brentwood by ASBOs
Jeremy
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Its so annoying when it happens, especially the chick chicks and duck ducks :(
I think we should all put a sign up like:
If you break something of mine, I will break something of you...
So sue me! all I had of value, you just broke :'(
We should have the sign up next to the stocks and the hangman thing with man-trap at base incase they live through the hanging.
With giant compo bin in front of the stocks ;D
Seriously though, if you can get pics or even better video of vandalism then that would be good, get good zoomed in shots in local paper(name and shame)!
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If you break something of mine, I will break something of you...
So sue me! all I had of value, you just broke :'(
Here here Andy I'm with you on that.
Getting photos isn't easy, I know, we have a huge amount of vandalism where I work. You get three or 4 of these youngsters and they're really scary
MM
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Jump out car from distance in darkest time they are there so they cant see you and snap! big flash and piccy as good as day, take 2nd shot quick as they look up and they are blinded :o
(and looking at camera)...
I know what you mean though, I approached 2 the other day and it was their mums plot :D
It seems the best approach, although not mine by nature and feeling, would be pleasant and try reasoning and indicate the hard work by lots of people.
Trouble is, I have seen that htrown back too..........
Still hard to bear when put so much effort into plot at this time of year.
I am worried about the pumpkin this year as last years national thing was sunflowers, this year it is :o pumpkins :o
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Just for a laugh, I'm tempted to put up a sign with something like 'tresspassers will be shot!'
Seriously, I feel there is no point to reporting the problems I've had to the council, police etc because there is not a lot they can do.
Mark
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there was a prevous post last year about reporting it, if EVERYONE reports it at the plot then the police get so many calls they have to log it,ask for crime number etc.
shame it has to work in this way but it is the normal/usual world gone mad again.
Only way to do it though, it did stop it last time.........
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I like to comment about touch them and you end up in court.
So touch them ;) at least the police know who they are then when they try to sue ou.
So go one better, make a citizens arrest, you can use ANY force neccessary to carry out this act, the police wont comment much about this! but was something on the news last year...
I think you can hold them while you call the police and if they resist then any force required. Not sure about the age thing but you can always say the snotty nosed 3 years old weilding a machette and shotgun looked a lot older, like 18! due to the language he used and the weapons he weilded!!!
Make sure they are out numbered though...... :-X
I cannot emphasize anough about complain complain complain
again and again and again. keep reporting every incident to the police. Sad but true but you must get others to do it too.
We had 2 plots and all three of us all complained about both plots and other people on separate phone calls.
Dont be worried about what the police say if they make you feel guilty and wrong!
If so, then take it higher,to the top :o
I once dialed 999 to report a BIG DEAD dear on bend in middle of road, cars swerving and all that, didnt know local police number etc. Got call back saying I had committed offence by wrongly using three nines!!!! She never made that mistake again.
Sorry if I have offended and police owning plot holders but hey, you know the red tape that stops you effectively doing your job.
enough rammbling on&on&on&on&on :-X
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I can't help but feel that you and I are like minded people on this subject Andy H.
MM
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i'm a newie to this allotment but i would like to say that vandalism is everywhere i live in a flat the only storage i had was my garage but that was broken into twice i'm hoping put a new shed up on my plot. we have metal fencing all the way round. we are lucky to have a kitchen, a toilet, pic-nic area . to a newie it looks like a prison exercise yard but hey if its safe its ok with me.
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Try a big sign saying something like "Be Aware - wasps nests - awaiting removal by authorities" and a quasi-legal "we cannot be held responsible etc. etc"
If it's written as if to the allotment holders themselves it would be less obviously a ruse.
Or you could get some rumours going about plague lime pits under the site still holding all sorts of bacteria - it's amazing how the hardest vandal gets very squeamish when it comes to flesh-eating bacteria!!
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e ou.
So go one better, make a citizens arrest, you can use ANY force neccessary to carry out this act, the police wont comment much about this! but was something on the news last year...
Any force necessary? Are you sure? I would sure love to do that- the vandals wouldn't though ;D
Mark
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I am worried about people using "any force" to detain alleged offenders. Only "reasonable" force can be used - beware, there is no definitive definition of "reasonable". As for detaining alleged offenders, private members of the public can detainsomeone as a "citizen's arrest" but they MUST BE CERTAIN an offence has occurred and is is an "arrestable offence" e.g. theft and they are CERTAIN that the person detained has committed that offence.
I would encourage people, individually, to report any damage or problems to the Police. In Merseyside, these reports generate"hotspot" locations of criminal damage and youth disorder. I have personal experience of people ringing the police to complain about a "regular" problem but when researched there are very few or no previous incidents. How can we then say that it is a regular problem. Also, if you wish to complain about any lack of police action to "problem solve" the incidents you will have no evidence to substantiate your claim that it is a regular occurrence. I am encouraging members of my allotment to report any and every incident of crime and disorder to ensure that a history of the problem is built up. In calling the police, if you feel that someone is imminently going to get hurt or property imminently going to be damaged or an offence has just occurred and the offenders are still at scene so that there is a good prospect of an early arrest, call "999". This is my professional opinion.
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I've had fence posts, tin sheets and a spade stolen, a friend has had his chickens thrown over the boundary fence twice so dogs could kill them. >:( Another guy before i arrived had a shed that he erected one day dismantled and gone the same night.
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It's sickening, isn't it and very sad particularly about the chickens. :'(
MM
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It is an ify one, I agree, reasonable force in my mind would be to the point of whatever was neccesary, the more they struggle the more they get hurt.
Shame about the definition but I feel recent events will maybe straighten this out.
Can kill burglars now cant we? ;D
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Apparently someone stole an in flower greengage tree from our neighbours allotment. They even filled the hole in afterwards - thoughtful.
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Hi all,
I heard that a coil of razor wire makes really good crocks to put in the bottom of pots. Of course anyone ripping a plant out too rapidly could get badly injured.
I think plants like the iron, this is a gardening tip.
:)
Col
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this thread is really depressing reading and it makes me feel really lucky. As far as I know there haven't been any instances of vandalism on our site (certainly not for last 2 years I have had my plot). We are in a small village which may help (although lots of bored kids roaming the place). I really admire you all to keep going when these things happen - I don't know if I would be so keen.
Hope I haven't tempted fate now.......
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Hi Justy, sorry if it's been a depressing read but I just wanted to know what other people had experienced. I'm sure if a thread was started asking to hear from all the people who had never experienced vandalism there would be a lot more than on this thread.
MM
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It happens sometime, some let it go,some get angry(very) then let it go. Still plod on and enjoy the plots......... ;)