Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: caroline7758 on October 16, 2016, 15:56:45
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I have used plastic "dalek" bins at home and at my allotment for arounf 10 years now. the one at home gets mostly kiutchen waste plus some garden waste, shredded paper and the odd handful of chicken manure and produces not perfect, but acceptable compost which I empty out two or three times a year. the one at the allotment gets the remains of the veg plants, rhubarb leaves, some paper and cardboard, weed leaves, nettles and comfrey, and I've had next to nothing out of it over the 10 years- nothing seems to rot down and it's very dry. Admittedly I've probably put less in it than the other one, but even so! Any ideas? Should I start taking some of the kitchen waste down to the allotment?
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sound as if your compost could do with a pint or two of urine should get it of to a good start maybe put some egg boxes into the layers before hand to get air into it hope this helps :sunny:
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Now I am not taking the 'P'out of Johnny :drunken_smilie: but I think I would go for Nitro Chalk or Sulphate of Ammonia as an activator as these will also double up as a Nitrogen feed as would urine of course, but not as smelly!
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If the compost bin is hot enough - 30C - the urine shouldn't smell. It is probably more 'convenient' for it to be supplied by gentlemen than ladies.
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All of the above recommendations and it sounds like it needs watering. Dry bins will not heat up or rot. What happens is that all the green material dries up and turns into brown and that then upsets the ratio between green and dry materials in your lottie dalek.
If you can still find nettles or cut grass, it might be worth your while to pull off the dalek and remake it with layers of the old dalek material and your greens interspaced. Then invite the gents or diy and water it. Is there a lid to keep moisture in? :wave:
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Yep ...you gotta let the rain in......and also give it a bit of a stir to get some air into it too . Everything you,ve put in sounds good . Debbie :coffee2:
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Hi Ya Caroline7758, From what you said I think you need to give it a good turning and soaking it at the same time. By putting in cardboard etc this will, if given a good soaking hold moisture. It sounds like a good mix but the contents right can be trying. If it's that dry it would be a haven for ants which is a sign of dryness. A good mix of all different compostable goods is the answer and time is the thing. The temp will rise if given chance. Do you have an open bin or is it enclosed. Some say turning the compost from one bin to another is needed but I have found this to be hard work and not really necessary. I will take a couple of piccies on my way home to show what i do and some of the stuff i have made. I do tend to save up my veggie peelings etc in buckets my grass mowings which provide heat and heat up very quickly when mixed in along with a couple of bags of horse manure. I have lined my pallet sized bins with black plastic to help absorb the heat. Leaving the pallets open allow to much air in and then requires turning as the edges dry out. Don't allow to much rain to get in as it to can be detrimental to the finished product. I keep mine covered. I find making compost almost as good as growing good veg. This is purely my thoughts on the subject and many will do it other ways. You do what ever you feel is best for what you are trying to achieve. I have found daleks to be to small so went to pallet sized a while ago. Still as I said if it works for you then it's good. I will give more info on how I do it if you wish. Happy gardening
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hi ya, hopefully this will be ok to see. One is the bin set up and is usually 2ft over the top when I close it and it has been 8 months so has shrunk a good way it will 12 months when I apply to my soil. If I do it before winter and on sandy soil it leaches out. so it will be put on ground in the spring/
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Thats great looking compost Lez! :wave:
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Thanks for all your help. The bin does have a lid. I poured a bucket of comfrey liquid in at the weekend so that might help. I've recently got a mower with a collecting box (I don't have much grass so had a hover before) so should get more grass clippings (I know too many is bad!).
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I have never had good compost from "dalek" bin. Good for storing finished compost though. A couple like the ones on Lez's post would be better and occasional rotation of contents from one to the other. The best compost I have made was when I had access to shredded tree branches as the brown component to mix with the green. I take my hat off to the guys who can pee into a dalek bin from ground level!!
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We have three dalek bins at home and it took the first one about three years or so to rot down. The compost was lovely though and very dark in colour. The second bin is now doing well and is full of worms. I took the lid off a few days ago to have a look at it and it was almost as if someone had put a wormery in there. I reckon it will be ready next Spring.
None of them have had urine in them as hubbie and I are not contortionists and I can't recall ever putting water in them either. They do have a lot of vegetable matter in them namely peelings, rotten fruit and left over food and get weeds and grass put in now and again.
We also have very large compost heaps in the paddock where the majority of grass cuttings are put. We also add shredded branches and paper. These compost heaps take even longer to rot down but don't get turned that often. They are open to the elements so get wet when it rains. Once one is full, we start on the next one and so on. We emptied the oldest one this year to make up the raised beds. That one was probably started over ten years ago. All I can add Caroline, is to be patient and maybe start another one at the allotment and leave the old one to rot down.
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I get decent compost in daleks if I water. If one does not work it is usually because it is too dry. If I just keep filling and do nothing else, it takes about a year. But I often use what is there after a few months and move the dalek and the not yet composted material.
As my daleks are located on the actual growing area, I often shift to an area that could do with a bit extra. Having the daleks on the growing area makes it easier to have the compost where it is needed and just rake it in or dig it in. And the run-off also goes directly into the growing area.
Since I have started adding cardboard and shredded paper to mine, it does compost quicker. As master composter Lezelle said, cardboard holds water better and that speeds up or maintains the composting process better. The trick with daleks is that it needs more greens than browns (slightly). I have never had a sludgy dalek, but had several that were too dry.
Shredded prunings work well like Plotstoeat said, interspersed with grass. Currently I am harvesting the compost from a dalek started in spring to top up the greenhouse soil. About a third of the bin is quality compost, the rest gets reused in the next dalek location. Which means that it did not rot as well as Lezelle's compost has, but for me daleks are far more convenient than large compost heaps. :wave:
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Thanks for all your help. The bin does have a lid. I poured a bucket of comfrey liquid in at the weekend so that might help. I've recently got a mower with a collecting box (I don't have much grass so had a hover before) so should get more grass clippings (I know too many is bad!).
Caroline7758, too many put in one layer may be bad, but interspersed with dry compost you can use a lot of grass. And by watering I meant several buckets and more than one watering. Imagine the amount of water needed if your dalek was dried out soil. It is easier to water soil than to remoisten a dalek, because of what runs off.
A good resource for composting material is coming up soon: mowing under trees. Autumn leaves get picked up, chopped and pre-mixed with cut grass. Rots a treat and easier than raking leaves! :wave:
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I have never had good compost from "dalek" bin. Good for storing finished compost though. A couple like the ones on Lez's post would be better and occasional rotation of contents from one to the other. The best compost I have made was when I had access to shredded tree branches as the brown component to mix with the green. I take my hat off to the guys who can pee into a dalek bin from ground level!!
why thank you
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I've used daleks and similar bins for 25 years and never had (excessive) dryness of the material as a problem. For what it's worth, my process works like this: into the first bin (a smaller, solid bin with no front hatch) goes kitchen waste (not cooked food or bread), grass cuttings, weeds, dead headings, finished plants, etc etc. In the past, guineau pig, rabbit etc bedding too. I'm now putting in shredded paper. I don't put in woody material as a rule. Over a few months the bin fills up and settles down, and I keep on adding to it. Anything I can't put in (grass clippings and weeds when it's already full, I keep in old compost bags.)
When this first bin is properly full (it doesn't settle down very far anymore), I turn it into a larger conventional dalek, adding the stuff in the compost bags as I go. This therefore is a mixture of newish material and rotting, sludgy stuff. These days, it's full of leopard slugs!
After a few months, when the first bin is again ready to be moved on, I empty the second bin into a third, smaller dalek. The material will be nearly properly rotted, but there will be some sludgy stuff still, particularly if there was a lot of grass cuttings. There will be brambling worms in this, working away.
After another few months, what's in the third bin is ready to use. The worms have gone, their job done. The quality varies, but it's recognisably compost and fine for use in the garden and allotment.
I'm achieving anaerobic composting only, so it is a wet and slightly smelly (but not unpleasant) process. Weed seeds are not efficiently killed. A positive is that I get nicotiana, lobelia, bronze fennel, and other ornamentals coming up on my allotment which don't seed well in my garden! The proper composters would say that I've failed as it's not sweet smelling, aerobic-processed compost that you could eat for dinner!
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Hi Ya, Interesting Paul on how you do your composting, while reading I thought of weeds as I to compost weeds but not the seeds or perennials. Though bind weed is easy to spot in the compost if it's still growing which it has a tendency to do. You could always drown the weeds then add to your bins but that is smelly. I have never got on with daleks myself. You seem to have a lot of turning which is ok as it gives you regular sight of what is happening in your bins. You it's not sweet smelling but fine for garden and lottie so hey so long as you are happy with it then job done. Keep it up.
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I agree with Lez, you have a good rotation regime which aerates the compost. I would be interested to hear how you get the compost out; do you dismantle the whole thing. I am 71 now and, although tall, find it difficult to reach th lower half of a Dalek bin.
Interesting that some people eat their compost. I have never done this but my wife may suspect that I have when I do the cooking! :drunken_smilie:
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Hi Ya, In answer to your question plotstoeat I keep the front of the bin separate. I put the 3 sides up and nailed in position then line those with plastic. Then I offer up the front with it's own plastic so it overlaps the two either side and tie it in place top and bottom. When time to empty I undo the front and take it away. As I front onto the path I do lay a sheet down then pile it into my barrow. The sheet is there as I always manage to spill some. I will take another picture and see if I can't show you better than the one I posted earlier.
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Though bind weed is easy to spot in the compost if it's still growing which it has a tendency to do. You could always drown the weeds then add to your bins but that is smelly.
Yes, I've never understood why people are prepared to recommend this unreliable and smelly wet method when simple drying is actually much more effective - especially for bindweed and couch grass.
If you have a little of either then just keep them separate off the ground in the open air and they will dry out quite quickly (especially bindweed as the roots have a very thin skin) - even rain helps to dry them as it washes away the bits of soil that are keeping them moist.
If you have a lot you need a bit of mesh held above the ground - if you have a plague to clear then you need a chicken wire hammock - which will dry a whole allotments worth faster than you can fill it.
Once it's gone brown and crunchy it's 100% dead and can be composted - I have years of experience of this and none of it has ever re-appeared in the heap.
NB. This also means there's really no need to burn anything that isn't actually diseased - and since blight won't survive on anything dead there's very little left in that category.
Cheers.
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Though bind weed is easy to spot in the compost if it's still growing which it has a tendency to do. You could always drown the weeds then add to your bins but that is smelly.
Yes, I've never understood why people are prepared to recommend this unreliable and smelly wet method when simple drying is actually much more effective - especially for bindweed and couch grass.
If you have a little of either then just keep them separate off the ground in the open air and they will dry out quite quickly (especially bindweed as the roots have a very thin skin) - even rain helps to dry them as it washes away the bits of soil that are keeping them moist.
If you have a lot you need a bit of mesh held above the ground - if you have a plague to clear then you need a chicken wire hammock - which will dry a whole allotments worth faster than you can fill it.
Once it's gone brown and crunchy it's 100% dead and can be composted - I have years of experience of this and none of it has ever re-appeared in the heap.
NB. This also means there's really no need to burn anything that isn't actually diseased - and since blight won't survive on anything dead there's very little left in that category.
Cheers.
i agree with you vinlander i burn very little and what i do burn is bits of old pallet etc which as every year seems to appear around my plots in nocks and crannies i think they must sprout from a small piece of pallet left in the ground lol however not much organci matter is burnt the odd summer raspberry cane that i cant be bothered with otherwise it all composted
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I agree that drying out weeds is more effective than burning. I had an old water butt which I filled with weeds and put water in but every time I took the lid off there were very healthy-looking weeds poking out of the water and then it sprung a leak! Recently I've been laying cardboard down and covering it with the weeds I'm digging up- this holds the cardboard down and the weeds dry out. Re how I get the compost out, plotstoeat, my daleks have a door at the bottom on the front.
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"Re how I get the compost out, plotstoeat, my daleks have a door at the bottom on the front."
Thanks Caroline. Mine has the same but I have great difficulty getting stuff out. Being tall has it's disadvantages. I also have two cubic bins a bit like Lez's. I transfer from one to the other and plant directly into it, usually courgettes but this year I have also had a good crop of climbing beans that I grew up canes in the corners.