Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => Allotment Movement => Topic started by: digmore on August 04, 2011, 23:10:56
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Why oh why, do plot holders whinge when asked to tidy their plot up. Do they not understand that their mismanagement affects their neighbours. Surely, if someone says something to you in an official capacity, there is a reason.
Having been a plot holder for several years, I am still smiling at some of the excuses, both from old hands and newbies.
If you left me alone I could get on with it. But you had a warning 6 months ago.
I grow organic. What weeds.
I have a no dig policy. So your not lifting the spuds then.
Fortunately, most ploters have a sense of humour. My son once said to me, dad if your living on the edge your taking up to much space. Perhaps the lazy ploters are taking up to much space, do the decent thing and leave, let someone else have a go.
Digmore
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Looks like you are having the same problem as I am at the moment :)
I had to tell a plotholder that he needed to tidy up his plot
[attachment=1]
and when I'd gone he asked his neighbour what was wrong with it.
He sprays the weeds with Roundup and leaves them standing there like skeletons. He has massive bags of good quality compost delivered then leaves it to grow more weeds in and apart from weeds, doesn't seem to have grown anything this year.
Welcome to A4A!
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I don't think that we are ever going to get the allotment sites looking as we would like them to look because the rules are too lax.
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Why oh why, do plot holders whinge when asked to tidy their plot up. Do they not understand that their mismanagement affects their neighbours. Surely, if someone says something to you in an official capacity, there is a reason.
Depends what you mean digmore. If you are referring to cultivation and keeping weeds (and therefore seeds) under control then I absolutely agree.
However I am a chaotic gardener and my plot is far from tidy - some may say that it is a bit of a mess and I love it like that - it is however cultivated and generally productive. I personally don't see that it is anyone else's business how tidy my plot is - as long as I am not breaking any rules of course.
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I understand what you mean Nick, I am not a 'tidy' gardener either.
I shouldn't have told the plotholder to "tidy up" but should have told him that digging and planting might be a good idea!
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I don't think that we are ever going to get the allotment sites looking as we would like them to look because the rules are too lax.
This is true. I suppose the rules are in place to protect the plot holder from over-zealous little hitlers ;D but it is very frustrating.
I really don't expect plots to be immaculate and weed-free, but having a plot and then not planting anything at all is such a waste when we have a waiting-list.
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However I am a chaotic gardener and my plot is far from tidy - some may say that it is a bit of a mess and I love it like that - it is however cultivated and generally productive. I personally don't see that it is anyone else's business how tidy my plot is - as long as I am not breaking any rules of course.
Yes I tend to agree with this. Mine plot does get a bit overgrown at times, but I do have productive things growing in every part of it, and as time goes on I have learnt how to fill it up over the year. I would not leave rubbish as in betty's photo.
But the idea of allotments looking as they should, I am not sure I see the point. They are surely a functional place? So just like on a working farm, not everything is pretty. If I let something go to seed, it's not to be messy, it's to save the seed! (I currently have a parsnip "bush" doing just that). If instead of having bare ground everywhere like the "traditional" gardeners do, I have the weeds rotting on the ground as mulch, that's messy but there is a reason for it. While I agree that not actually growing anything is a waste and surely the plot should be given to someone who needs to grow stuff, I do think some caution needs to be exercised on the aesthetic question and accept that not everyone uses the same methods...
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Call me an old cynic but I can't help wondering if our newbie Digmore is a regular poster who has registered a new ID to make the opening post.
And posting pictures on the internet of your neighbours allotments to say "look how terrible this plot is" is rude and also a privacy violation.
Sorry, but I think this is unacceptable.
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Call me an old cynic but I can't help wondering if our newbie Digmore is a regular poster who has registered a new ID to make the opening post.
And posting pictures on the internet of your neighbours allotments to say "look how terrible this plot is" is rude and also a privacy violation.
Sorry, but I think this is unacceptable.
I hope you don't think it's me? I believe the Admin people are able to find out if people join under different IDs and I certainly have no objection to them looking into Digmore's registration.
As for the photos I put up - the allotments are a public place and I don't think privacy is being violated. I have not named the plotholders concerned.
I suggest that you put me on 'Ignore'. This isn't the first time you have found what I post to be objectionable.
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Betty is secretary as well, so it is not a case of the plot just belonging to a neighbour.
As such she has responsibility to help the site work for everyone's best interest.
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Depends what you mean digmore. If you are referring to cultivation and keeping weeds (and therefore seeds) under control then I absolutely agree.
However I am a chaotic gardener and my plot is far from tidy - some may say that it is a bit of a mess and I love it like that - it is however cultivated and generally productive. I personally don't see that it is anyone else's business how tidy my plot is - as long as I am not breaking any rules of course.
I agree with you barriedalenick, I think that much as it may annoy other plot holders, it is our plot, we pay for it, and we are cultivating it in our own way, we are not stopping someone else from having the opportunity of having a plot, so we should be allow to conduct our own management..if we don't keep within the guidelines I hope that this is brought to our attention in a nice way.
There will always be a mix of tidy and untidy, but surely we can all live together. :)
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^^ PL, please explain why posting pictures of peoples plots on the internet works in the interest of the allotment site.
If I saw a picture of my plot up on the internet without my permission I would insist that the Forum Mods remove it.
Allotments aren't public places, they are rented by individuals for their own private use.
And members of a committee need to behave in a professional manner in all matters related to allotment business, unpaid volunteers or not.
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Denby - google has pic of your house - have you asked them to remove it?
I'm sorry but I totally disagree (it seems to tbe the seaon for disagreement) - there is no law to prevent me taking pictures of other people's plots - I do it all the time and many of them have been posted and reposted here and elsewhere on the web. The idea that you can prevent people taking pics and posting them online has no merit.
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Interesting 'discussion'.
Are Allotments Public Places?
I say No! Absolutely not.
I also say (but the police seem to differ) that carrying my gardening 'penknife', in fact a small lock-knife with a 2" (50mm) blade, is not an illegal act. Nor is using it to cut string, etc.
At our Allotments we have to pass through 4 sets of gates before entering the Allotments themselves and pay for, not only our rents and water bill, but also for the key that lets us gain access!
Still, the charge-sheet reads, 'possession of a knife with a lockable-blade in a public place.....' (Not 'With Intent', I might add.)
We'll see, I suppose. At public expense too. :-X
What a load of c**p!
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Denby - google has pic of your house - have you asked them to remove it?
^^ Not so. My house isn't on Google StreetView as it is at the bottom of a private drive and the camera vehicles only travelled on public highways when they did the photography. And you can't see much of it on Google Earth either.
I'm sorry but I totally disagree (it seems to tbe the seaon for disagreement) - there is no law to prevent me taking pictures of other people's plots - I do it all the time and many of them have been posted and reposted here and elsewhere on the web. The idea that you can prevent people taking pics and posting them online has no merit.
Yes, you are correct, there is no law saying that you can't photograph your neighbour's home, car or allotment and then post a picture of it on the internet with a comment about how poor it is. That doesn't mean that it is fine to do it. But it is a easy thing to test: next time, ask your neighbour and see what he/she says - that would be basic courtesy, would it not?
Edited to add "" now resigns from the thread **
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I believe the Admin people are able to find out if people join under different IDs and I certainly have no objection to them looking into Digmore's registration.
As for the photos I put up - the allotments are a public place and I don't think privacy is being violated. I have not named the plotholders concerned.
I suggest that you put me on 'Ignore'. This isn't the first time you have found what I post to be objectionable.
I can see the registration details (including IP address) of each member. I can't see a list of all members' registration details. I have spotted a couple of sockpuppets recently but only because the posting styles seemed familiar so I had a 'suspect' to check against. There's no evidence at the moment that the OP is a sock. Hopefully, they'll come back and introduce themselves properly.
BTW - sockpuppets get banned.
As far as posting pics of plots with critical comment is concerned, I'd advise caution for your own protection. It's worth remembering that we have a lot of lurkers and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone who knows the site/the plot/the plotholder spots it and reports back/complains.
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Well its good to know that you can see if someone is posting under a different name from the same IP address..It would certainly be a warning to anyone that thought that they could come on here just to cause trouble.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion ! Not everyone agrees ! Officials (paid or not ) are there to do a job! Often thanklessly !
As for pictures ! if you are that ashamed of your plot/house/car or anything else then i can understand you not wanting to have it photographed! I would love everyone to photograph my plot as i am proud of it !!! :)
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Well, that raised a few hackles, didn't it? Digmore, are you coming back to contribute further to this interesting thread? And Betty, quite a few of actually know what a bloody impossible job Secretary is - especially when they're hands-on like you.
When unpaid volunteers stop doing jobs like this, allotment sites will collapse and become a sea of weeds. (And for the record, I couldn't possibly identify which plot was in Betty's photograph, as it was a close-up.)
Allotments are not "public" places, but they are communal, and all members have responsibilities to other members. (Strange how the word "responsibilities" has been replaced by the word "rights"....)
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The way this thread developed has made me seriously think twice before posting anything to do with the allotment movement/committees etc. in future.
Trevor, you are right about what an impossible job being the secretary is. It's bad enough having to inspect overgrown neglected plots but then if I dare to mention it on here I get someone who criticises everything I write.
Well, I've learned my lesson. I'll stick to writing about pumpkins and chillies from now on. That can't cause any problems, can it?
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..............................SNIP..........Allotments are not "public" places, but they are communal, and all members have responsibilities to other members. (Strange how the word "responsibilities" has been replaced by the word "rights"....)
Where'd you get that Trevor? Is there somewhere (A particular Allotments Act Clause for example) I can verify this?
I'd be obliged, ect, ect, ect... :)
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The full title of our allotments is "The Ruislip-Northwood Co-operative Smallholding & Allotment Society Limited." We are all shareholders and registered as a Mutual with the FSA.
Hence my comment. We all have responsibilities!!!!
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;D The answer I seek, it seems, is as far away now as it was then...... :P
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Interesting 'discussion'.
Are Allotments Public Places?
I say No! Absolutely not.
I also say (but the police seem to differ) that carrying my gardening 'penknife', in fact a small lock-knife with a 2" (50mm) blade, is not an illegal act. Nor is using it to cut string, etc.
At our Allotments we have to pass through 4 sets of gates before entering the Allotments themselves and pay for, not only our rents and water bill, but also for the key that lets us gain access!
Still, the charge-sheet reads, 'possession of a knife with a lockable-blade in a public place.....' (Not 'With Intent', I might add.)
We'll see, I suppose. At public expense too. :-
What a load of c**p!
It might be an idea to start a separate thread for this Nigel as it's a serious issue for very many allotmenteers, but to offer a brief suggestion: I'm guessing from what you've said that you've been charged under S.139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1998 with having a blade with you in a public place?
Whether your allotment is a "public place" within the meaning of the act depends on whether the public are permitted access to it and that's something the jury would decide on the facts, but if the site wasn't open to uninvited visitors when you had the knife on you and it's fenced and gated then no, that's not a "public place".
Of course if you've carried the knife through a public place to get to the allotment then there's the problem.
However, you have a defence if you can prove on the balance of probability that you had the knife for a good reason, such as if you had some string on you and you were obviously on your way to the allotment to tie up your dahlias.
You've got legal representation, right? They haven't started court action, right?
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Good morning everyone,
I seem to have scratched an old wound. Tangential comments of photos and privacy have little to do with poor husbandry, I have found over the years that these sort of arguements are designed to deflect away from the original statement - lack of responsibility for poor plot management.
KIS or keep it simple is surely the motto to be held by all plotters, why handle anything twice. Making hard work for yourself by not clearing weeds, seeded weeds produce next years chores, diligent weeding gradually reduces the yearly work. It called plot management.
We all have little areas on our plots that need a little work and thats the next project.
Oh, Harry A, love the the comment; rights and responsibilities, I agree. How these words get misused
Bye for now
Digmore
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Well, I've learned my lesson. I'll stick to writing about pumpkins and chillies from now on. That can't cause any problems, can it?
Please continue to post on allotment matters Betty - personally I enjoy your posts but then again I am a sec as well!!
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It is not you that is causing problems Betty so don't you dare stop posting about allotment matters. Apart from that I don't go onto the chillies section. ;D
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It's good when people have different opinions and discuss them freely - it's just bolshiness that causes problems.
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My plot is terribly untidy. It is full to overflowing with plants and I am getting an exellent harvest. The paths have now disappeared as well. Compared with the neat rows with bare soil between of many plots mine is very different.
I do try an make sure there are no blowing weeds. I am rather frustrated by neighbouring plots full of milk thistle, ordinary thistle and dandelion. I have less of an issue with fat hen for example because the seeds tend to fall in situ.
But I am mulching more and more to minimise weeds. So I am trying not to get too worked up about weeds. The field next door is a meadow and is full of dandelions.
I think what you have to say is fine Squash 64 please do not stop.
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I have a no dig policy. So your not lifting the spuds then.
Not yet no, I leave them in the ground until I am ready. What's it got to do with you?
If you were on my site I think I'd have lamped you one. Esp when you had a go at me for the radishes that are being left for their seeds. Or the beans that are left to dry in their pods for dried beans.
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Poorly kept allotments are very annoying. I am also secretary and most people don't take bad news kindly. Saying this, I still would be very careful about what I say online about other people or their plots. Even if you don't identify people by name they are identifiable to those who know them and it wouldn't help get people on your side, which is what is really wanted. You don't have to identify people by name to identify them. I am pretty sure that if you post enough information that it can be worked out it is basically the same thing! I have been involved in running other (pretty large) forums and have seen the legal threats made and attempted! Whether it is legal is not isn't really the issue in this case. It isn't really very polite to air other people's dirty laundry in public. I am sure you do a great job on your site Betty. Being secretary is a thankless job and probably whatever you do will rattle some cages. We all want to vent sometimes and also like the reassurance that we are doing the right thing; people will argue black and blue that their plot is fine when it is clearly a mess. The internet is quite a scary medium really. Things sticking around, searchable etc. A bit like people posting personal information on sites like facebook. In this day it does serve to be careful about what is said online as don't want things coming back to bite you.
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I take your point Sparkly, and thank you for putting it across in such a nice, friendly manner! :)
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From the return postings, it seems most of us, manage our plots well. Mulching and crop seed cultivation all seem to be at the fore of the keen plotter. No one minds an untidy plot [it shows a sign of an organised mind relaxing].
Its when as I initially stated, when weeds compete with crops or their seeds or root systems affect another plot, it becomes a husbandry issue. Or when items of rubbish are just dumped on the plot by the plot holder leaving the opportunity for housing vermin or for future tenants to clear. This becomes a management issue, hence comments from neighbours / committee.
Allotments should be an enjoyable relaxing space, as a community we work together both on our own sites and through forums such as this. If we can not discuss things openly in a civilised manner no one will learn anything.
Individuality is not an issue, we all do thing slightly differently. It is only when our actions affect our neighbours in a negative way that we need to address the situation.
Digmore