Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: picman on February 10, 2019, 10:07:13
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When you buy cornflakes , there's tiny print on the shelf says how much per 100gm ... so why not compost ... Offer in a 'garden centre ' ( department store , restaurant . book shop ) 2 x 60 Lt multipurpose £12.. 10p per Lt .. Just down the road ...Plant nursery ( and green grocers ) Offer 3x70 Lt (Erin) £11... 5p per Lt ... Think some retailers see 'gardeners' as walking wallets ..
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Because it is getting nearly impossible too just buy one bag at a time. You have to buy multiples to get it at what you think is a reasonable price. Three of us get together once a year at £12 a ton from the tip. They cannot sell it as compost, which is strange as it is the same rubbish they put into compost bags. Soil improver they call it, but with varying degrees of sharp sand and your own garden compost you can make, seed, cutting, potting or just normal compost.
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I try and wait till they have the BOGOF types of offer or half price or something and then we go and get 10 or 12 bags at a time. Some for sowing and the multi-purpose for soil improving. Haven't got enough of our own yet tho we do now have some 2 year old leaf mold and I haven't found sharp sand or perlite yet.
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My Compost order worked out at 6p per litre this year!
I had 6 x 75litre bags of Clover MP delivered for £27-30.
Which I seem to recall is around the same cost as last year!
But talking of increased prices I have noticed over the last few years how prices have escalated in the garden world.
I noticed in Kings catalogue that Tomatoes varied from around 1p per seed to 14p per seed.
My favourite Br Sprout (Maximus) worked out at around 7p per seed whereas non-hybrid seeds cost around ¼p per seed meaning my seeds are 30 times more expensive than run of the mill open-pollinated varieties.
Caulies were similarly priced with my favourite costing 2.75p per seed when open-pollinated varieties are costing ¼p per seed!
What started to gall me since the arrival of Aldi & Lidl where my wife can often come home with a beautiful caulie for under 60p. The beauty of these was we can get them all the year round whereas my F1's all tend to mature within a 1-2 week period.
OK there is the satisfaction of growing them but having said that; I am finding that the quality and taste of these Caulies & Sprouts are equally as good as those that I grow so why do I bother?
What frightens me most is this "Brexit" thing and how all the scaremongers are saying there are going to be shortages and increases in prices...Why?... the producers of such things from all over the world will still want to sell their goods to wholesalers, but as always they will be ground into submission by the large food chains, and it these 'middlemen' who in my opinion, will try to rip us off under the camouflage of 'Brexit.
I can remember way back when I was a lad that potatoes doubled in price because of a shortage and the prices were deemed to be a 'temporary measure' but let me tell you the price never come down again.
Then we went to decimal currency (another rip off) how long did it take for an item that let's say was costing a shilling (twelve pennies') which overnight become 5 pence, then shortly after items that cost a tanner (six pennies) soon cost 5 pence!
Going metric was rather similar but took quite a long time to fully implement!
OK I'll end my rant there and for once I hope to be proved wrong.....but I won't hold my breath!
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I am a notorious "shopper around" for compost. By good quality at the best price I can get for "important" crop seeds, and "3 for a tenner" from ASDA to start lettuce etc in trays. The cheap one works reasonably well
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I try and wait till they have the BOGOF types of offer or half price or something and then we go and get 10 or 12 bags at a time. Some for sowing and the multi-purpose for soil improving. Haven't got enough of our own yet tho we do now have some 2 year old leaf mold and I haven't found sharp sand or perlite yet.
Castorama do "sable-a-enduire", which I think is sharp sand (its for rendering)
See:
https://www.castorama.fr/sable-a-enduire-35kg/8437011742919_CAFR.prd?rrec=true#icamp=recs
and
See:
http://www.francehydroponique.com/substrats/perlite/?setlang=en
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Washed beach sand works well for me and a bucket load costs nothing. Sometimes it is left by the road side in handy size sacks after a flood.
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Only 20kms from the Atlantic coast so maybe we can follow Ace's suggestion. Have only seen builders' sand at the local builders' merchants but I can always ask. Thanks AFarmer. Our neaerst Castoramas are all at least an hour's drive away.
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As far as I am aware taking sand from a beach is illegal.
Sea weed is better. I rung up a local authority who were clearing a beach of the winters sea weed and they were only too delighted for some to disappear as it costs them a lot to remove each year. The smell in the car was terrible!! but my asparagus loved it.
I use half and half compost and recycled stuff. I have found 100 % recycled is not good it is dries out. It also adds nutrients to the otherwise poor boughten compost. Beans and courgettes particularly like the mix.
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I thought it was pebbles and gravel that was illegal. In any case, no seaweed here that I've seen. It all seems to get scrubbed away by the tides and currents. Would be lovely to have some tho.
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Taking the odd bucket of sand is acceptable down here, taking a trailer load would get you into trouble. Loose seaweed free for the taking, but not if it is attached to the rocks etc. We have areas where it is troublesome and when they take it out for disposal you can fill a lorry with blessings from the council who have the cost of removing it. There are some places that have samphire where it is taken alive, but nobody seems to worry and it grows back very quickly. My inherited bed of asparagus was really in need of digging out and starting again because of the couch grass, but I gave it a last chance with a good mulching of fresh seaweed. As asparagus is salt tolerant and couch is not, I am hoping that the salt in the fresh seaweed has thinned the grass. I have also ran an old mower over a heap of seaweed to chop it up fine and added it to the compost heap.
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What frightens me most is this "Brexit" thing and how all the scaremongers are saying there are going to be shortages and increases in prices.
That is not the scenario that frightens me most. On the contrary, I think there will still be lots of countries more than happy to sell us their products. Shortages? I don't see it.
What frightens me is the other side of the coin, that our manufacturers and farmers will face high tarrifs when trying to sell abroad, especially to the EU. If our products are too expensive and do not sell, order books will shrink rapidly and businesses will shrink too, sacking employees, or collapsing altogether. Some businesses have already moved their HQ abroad (Dyson and Rees Mogg to name but two) so will no longer pay UK corporation tax.
Of course we can sell to other countries, and do so successfully I am sure, but it will be a big adjustment and may take a long time. While that is going on, we might end up with a deep recession, job losses, unemployment and all the other miseries that hit the ordinary man in the street. I desperately hope it doesn't happen, and I will be delighted if I am proved wrong, but I fear that short term we may be in for a very unhappy time.
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Some businesses have already moved their HQ abroad (Dyson and Rees Mogg to name but two)
That's Fake News!
What RM's company have done is set up a new business investment fund for Ireland. They haven’t moved their HQ or any other existing business there.
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Some businesses have already moved their HQ abroad (Dyson and Rees Mogg to name but two)
That's Fake News!
What RM's company have done is set up a new business investment fund for Ireland. They haven’t moved their HQ or any other existing business there.
I stand corrected.
However, I would ask why the need for the new business? The FT reports this as a move to ensure asset managers do not find themselves cut off from European investors after Brexit. So clearly they are concerned about that issue and have taken steps to protect their business interests, which they are fully entitled to do. Hardly inspires confidence for the rest of us though!
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That's a fair comment that I couldn't object to :wave:
I'll just ask, if you were a partner in an investment fund wouldn't you think it a sensible move to prepare for all Brexit outcomes?
Now I'll get back to sorting the seeds in my seed box :toothy10:
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That's a fair comment that I couldn't object to :wave:
I'll just ask, if you were a partner in an investment fund wouldn't you think it a sensible move to prepare for all Brexit outcomes?
Now I'll get back to sorting the seeds in my seed box :toothy10:
Indeed. Your comments were entirely reasonable. I suppose I was in a glass half empty mood.
Like many businesses, I'm hoping for the best, but rather fearful about how it will all pan out.
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I know of one small bulb company in Lincolnshire that fears it will go out of business because 50% of its sales are exports to the EU. A friend in Belgium buys 2000 snowdrops in the green from them every year to build up a huge display in their 2.5 acre garden and is afraid they won't be able to continue ordering if Brexit leads to closed borders for plants or excessive tariffs.
It doesn't matter who wants to sell to the UK and vice versa. If WTO rules come in and there are delays on checking goods thru Customs then perishables will become a non viable import/export. If WTO tariffs put prices up going either way then sales of everything will suffer, inflation will outrun wages and jobs will be lost.
Bloody Dyson can take his bloody vacuum cleaner manufacturing where he likes. Never buying one of his again. Horrible, stupid bloody machines.
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It doesn't matter who wants to sell to the UK and vice versa. If WTO rules come in and there are delays on checking goods thru Customs then perishables will become a non viable import/export.
If WTO tariffs put prices up going either way then sales of everything will suffer, inflation will outrun wages and jobs will be lost.
You make two interesting comments.
I disagree with the first. I can wander around any supermarket and see loads of perishables, such as fruit and veg from places like Peru, Chile, Egypt, Israel, Kenya, New Zealand, etc all traded into the EU area without any undue customs delay.
I totally agree with the second.
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Will any of this affect the price of compost, though? :argue: :argue: :toothy9:
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Beersmith - those perishables from the rest of the world enter unchecked on EU rules negotiated on behalf of and agreed across the whole EU.
Once Britain is out of the EU, WTO rules will apply to everything that comes into the UK by air or sea. That means checks and delays and tariffs and price hikes.
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Will any of this affect the price of compost, though? :argue: :argue: :toothy9:
Why does the term; "Jumping on the Band wagon" come into my mind? :angel11:
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Well Tee Gee - you're the one that mentioned Brexit in a discussion about compost prices.............
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will try to rip us off under the camouflage of 'Brexit.
I am not sure what Tee Gee sees as being ripped off. Market traders will always try to maximise their profits, it is competition that keeps them down, not some sort of kind intent. Remember a rip off price is only a rip off price if you pay it. Prices of food will rise after brexit at least 20% across the board and even then a lot of producers will go out of business because of EU tariffs on imports. WTO rules is not a place you want to be and that is why countries set up their own trade deals - Fox has two at the moment - 1 with Switzerland and 1 with the Faroe Islands.
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Getting a bit warm this thread isn't it?...but I like it and it is nice to hear from you guys rather than Laura Kuensberg and the BBC all the time!
Obelixx let me explain;
Well Tee Gee - you're the one that mentioned Brexit in a discussion about compost prices.............
Agreed! Perhaps I should have used a different emoji! I looked for a "Tongue in Cheek " one ( as that is how I felt at the time) but there wasn't one, so I used one of innocence! :toothy10: ( What you say ?....Tee Gee innocent?....never!)
Then again; perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Brexit at all....Sorry!
Having said that: I was only keeping in step with the original post, and as such, I'll take you back to the original post in this thread;
"Think some retailers see 'gardeners' as walking wallets .."
Where I replied that I had noticed over the last few years how prices have escalated in the garden world.
then you mentioned; this means checks and delays and tariffs and price hikes, and I agree with you as that was my very point!
But over the years( and I have many under my belt) Commerce often to tries and hide price hikes' under Political bad press so that we blame the politicians!
Sadly I honestly think the door is wide open for such practices to manifest themselves once we come out of the EU.
As I said previously; I hope I am wrong!
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Thing is I recall all the Non! Non! Non's we got pre the 1970s when we wanted to join the Common MARKET not the European Union! but that is what we ended up with thanks to Ted Heath & Co.
Then came the referendum; we were asked one question and that was; do we want to come out and I said Yes!
But if the question had been; Do you want to come out of the European Union and stay in the Common Market? I would have given an even more emphatic YES!
Finally, I want to see the end of this whole fiasco as I am bl**dy sick of it to be quite honest!
When it does transpire I would like another referendum where we the people are asked; Do you have faith in the British Political System because as I see it the present system is not fit for purpose!
Ther you are now: something to chat about until the gardening season really gets underway....over to you guys I'm off for a :coffee2:
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Watch all the other EU member countries not holding a referendum on leaving the EU after they watch the collapse of this country after 29th March. I hope the people who voted leave think it was worth it.
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Beersmith - those perishables from the rest of the world enter unchecked on EU rules negotiated on behalf of and agreed across the whole EU.
Once Britain is out of the EU, WTO rules will apply to everything that comes into the UK by air or sea. That means checks and delays and tariffs and price hikes.
The EU has negotiated trade deals with a lot of countries. But there are at least 24 where the EU trades under WTO rules. One of these is New Zealand, but their apples get in without delay, and it is only this narrow point where I disagree.
There will be checks - yes.
There will be tariffs - yes
There will be price hikes - yes
It is simply the idea that perishables cannot be traded under WTO because delay will cause them to rot that doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
PS We are not getting heated are we? Very cordial exchange, I thought.
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Watch all the other EU member countries not holding a referendum on leaving the EU after they watch the collapse of this country after 29th March. I hope the people who voted leave think it was worth it.
I think the more significant thing that will be seen in the Euro elections 2019, is a further expansion of support of 'populist' parties, as almost none of the e27 have ever asked their populations whether they wish to be moulded into a 'European State',relinquishing their national Sovereignty and allowing their youth to be conscripted to oppose expressions of patriotism in neighbouring areas(former states)
Trade does not need government, willing buyers and sellers can manage this.
Government needs trade, to syphon off funds to enable 'investment' in their notions of necessity.
Back to topic .The greatest cost in production of compost is the freight, rather than materials and margins. The best prices occur when volume is possible, hence the multiples can reduce the price by taking full loads.
My preference of late is the Multipurpose from Wickes, and for planters,tubs etc, have found Morrisons 'Richmoor' good enough, despite some hint of debris from green waste!
My 'target price', achieved last season, was £4 for 70 litre bagof the former and 3x70litre for £9 ,the latter. Willingness to take 'split bags' help average down. Addition of sharp sand, vermiculite , 4yr FYM, and ,maybe Vitax Q4 ,as required.
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At the moment there is a tariff of about £1.00 per kg for apples from New Zealand, we keep 20p and 80p goes off to the EU. Now when we leave the EU New Zealand apples should become 80p Kg cheaper and in an ideal world this saving should be seen in the shops. What's the betting apple prices will stay the same or even rise after brexit?
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Watch all the other EU member countries not holding a referendum on leaving the EU after they watch the collapse of this country after 29th March. I hope the people who voted leave think it was worth it.
I think there is a lot of truth in that!
I have always maintained that the reason the EU committees are being so stubborn is;if they made it easy for the UK to get out, a few other countries that I think are sitting in the wings, are watching to see how easy it is for us to get out.
Then if they saw that it was easy, then I am fairly certain they would follow, so Junke & co ensured that this was not going to happen my making it difficult for us.
Pity our politicians didn't gang up in the same way! If we had had a cross party 'get out' committee from the outset I think things might have been different!
Hence my previous comment; do we have faith in our political system?
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Watch all the other EU member countries not holding a referendum on leaving the EU after they watch the collapse of this country after 29th March. I hope the people who voted leave think it was worth it.
I think there is a lot of truth in that!
I have always maintained that the reason the EU committees are being so stubborn is;if they made it easy for the UK to get out, a few other countries that I think are sitting in the wings, are watching to see how easy it is for us to get out.
Then if they saw that it was easy, then I am fairly certain they would follow, so Junke & co ensured that this was not going to happen my making it difficult for us.
Pity our politicians didn't gang up in the same way! If we had had a cross party 'get out' committee from the outset I think things might have been different!
Hence my previous comment; do we have faith in our political system?
Not sure if I agree with the EU being deliberately 'stubborn' thus making brexit such a mess. Article 50 is a precise mechanism out of the EU, and we automatically leave on 29th march. Of course the EU want the best trade deal they can get for their EU members, that's their duty, nothing personal. The mess is that the UK had no idea what they wanted, no plan, no strategy, just idiots chanting take back control - that is the reason why we will collapse after 29th March - blaming the EU won't put food on the table. either.
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[/quote] The mess is that the UK had no idea what they wanted, no plan, no strategy, just idiots chanting take back control - that is the reason why we will collapse after 29th March - blaming the EU won't put food on the table. either.
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Those who voted to leave knew (know) exactly what they wanted. The problem is that the PM disagrees, has over ruled TWO cabinet ministers who each resigned rather than have the plan compromised and still, even after the greater defeat ever delivered, will not respect the parliament or the people.
Our electoral system will take a while to deliver the corrective action that will come, but it will.
The price of compost, while important, is the very least of our worries.
It may be time to 're-discover' the John Innes Institute handbook.
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The UK and many others joined a Common Market and then sat back and didn't engage in the process and thus allowed the Franco-German alliance to move everyone towards political unity that no-one else wants but none could stop on their own. There are plenty of French and Belgian people I know who don't like the direction of travel but do recognise that a united common market with a single border and free movement of goods and people does ensure better job and social security and better quality of goods. It also makes a sizable market union that can stand up to the USA and resist hormone fed beef, chlorine washed chicken, GM cereals and fruits and veg, lack of social security and so on as well as environmental horrors from China. The EU has rules about the working week, working conditions, manufacturing standards, animal welfare, chemical use and so on that will all be lost to the UK which becomes a teeny little part of global trade with very little levering power.
Nobody anywhere should be surprised that the 27 have been united in their negotiations and are doing the best for their members and not for the UK. Pity the UK politicians had no idea and no vision and thought it would all be simples.
WTO rules include tariffs. EU trade is tariff free. Prices will rise. Availability of some good will be affected.
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Cannot agree , the EU is a money pit, 'They' give subsidies to southern European tobacco farmers, at the same time spend millions on anti smoking campaigns. The books have not been audited for a decade, they are un-elected bureaucrats...
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Cannot agree , the EU is a money pit, 'They' give subsidies to southern European tobacco farmers, at the same time spend millions on anti smoking campaigns. The books have not been audited for a decade, they are un-elected bureaucrats...
EU tobacco production is less than 3% of the global total and The EU is a large net importer of tobacco. Measures have been in place for several years to reduce EU production of tobacco. Direct subsidies for tobacco production ended in 2010. Financial support to former tobacco growers is decoupled from tobacco production in order to encourage switching to other crops, providing a safety net during transition.
Everyone is entitles to their own opinion. However, facts are facts.
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The EU regional development fund has invested billions in projects to improve life in areas of Britain the London-centric government of all persuasions hasn't considered worthy of tax payers' investment. projects include conservation of environments and investment in new processes and technologies in former industrial wastelands. All of that will now cease.
Being able to export goods and services and import materials and people and skills from elsewhere in the EU has brought a great deal of inward investment from EU as well as global businesses. All that, and the jobs they create, is now in jeopardy so there will be fewer taxes going into London's coffers to support the regions where local conditions and lack of transport facilities mean less investment and fewer jobs. Vicious circle anyone?
Getting back to compost tho, I do't know why but here I can buy compost with peat in it or even pure peat if I wanted. I don't.
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The great thing about leaving the EU waste management regulations is that we can all go back to the good old days when we just dumped all our rubbish in huge municipal tips with large amounts of leach off into the water course - what has the EU ever done for us anyway?
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" Financial support to former tobacco growers is decoupled from tobacco production" smoke and mirrors ...
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This is an old story and a red herring.
Way back in 2004 the EU decided, after pressure from northern members including the UK, to phase out subsidies for tobacco growing starting in 2006 and ending them all by 2010 altho the cut off for small producers, usually in very poor areas of Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain, was extended to 2011 to 2013. They have been helped to change to growing Stevia instead.
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Not sure how price of compost turned into Tobacco... The 'Decoupling ' of subsidies was just a fudge , Italian , and Geek tobacco farmers still get a subsidy , but it is not linked to production , so the grow 1 field of cabbage ... 100 tobacco ! The amount of land growing tobacco has been static since 2007 , in fact has increased slightly . EU were and still are funding tobacco production and anti smoking campaigns ... And they are still un-elected , un-audited bureaucrats ...
Tobacco sector reform
In April 2004, the Council of EU Agricultural Ministers decided to reform the raw-tobacco sector along the same principles as the CAP reform of June 2003. The system of production quotas was abolished and financial support decoupled from production. EU Member States covered by the tobacco regime were given a transition period to adjust, between 2006 and 2009.
During this period, these Member States could either completely break the link between production and the financial aid provided to the tobacco sector (known as "decoupling") or continue to link part of the provided aid to production. Decoupling aid from production allows producers to grow other crops – if they wish – while maintaining stable incomes.
Since 2010, EU aid has been completely decoupled from production. 50% of the previous tobacco aid was incorporated into the direct payment system. The other 50% went into the EU's rural development programmes, particularly in tobacco-growing regions.
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Not sure how price of compost turned into Tobacco...
Harvest plenty of green tobacco leaf, add sufficient shredded non audited accounts and turn sufficiently......
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And don't forget to pee on it - better for fellas than ladies from a practical point of view and also chemical content apparently.
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You forgot to add plenty of bullsh!t to the mix :toothy10: