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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: thomasb on December 30, 2003, 19:30:16
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In another posting 'root-trainers' were mentioned as good for sowing sweetcorn seeds in.
Have people found them useful for sowing other plants?
This will be my first spring using a cold frame and I am considering what type and sizes of seed trays etc I will need for starting different seeds in. I would welcome advise on what depth of trays people use for such veg as peas, cauliflower etc.
Furthermore, have you all a preference for flat trays or ones with individual 'plugs' or divisions?
Thomas
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Root trainers? - p'raps I shouldn't be replying to this one? But they certainly work for all our veg, the 5" ones for corn and the like.
One disadvantage - you can't use them on a capillary bench - the segments are held off the mat. And if you use them for brassica, trim the tap root before planting out, as would happen naturally if you were lifting from a seed bed.
On trays etc - yes, plug trays, rather not, but I've learnt that more with fewer plugs rather than few with many suits us best.
But professionals use Jiffy 7s for a lot of plants, why not you? Certainly the best thing for a capillary bench. And no sterilisation each year!= Tim
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We use something like root trainers. Ours are in fact designed for fast growing Australian trees, but what the heck. We use them for Broad beans, French beans, Sweet Corn. The brassicas are planted into normal 3 inch pots. Otherwise we use soil blocks about 2 inch across.
If anyone wants any long 1.5 inch pots and can collect, they are welcome. We have about 2000 more than we need.
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Tim, dumb blonde time coming up, why would you trim the tap roots from your brassicas before planting out ???
Shame you aren't an Essex by Eric, I would love some long pots to start my sweetcorn off in as I am determined to grow them and brag about the bumper crop! :-/
I know people start sweetpeas off in root trainer pots, but have never thought of using them for anything else. I can sense Ava's wallet taking a bashing down at the garden centre! :o
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I start mine off in toilet rolls :-)
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Yes, BB, but a slight logistical problem?
EJ - I'll leave it to the bright ones to give you the explanation. And, of course, I meant trim any pot grown brassica. Then there's the other story about trimming leek roots, which was on the board a while ago! = Tim
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I've found Roottrainers to be good for any crops with either a deep root system or those that dislike root disturbance.
In particular I use them for leguminous crops (beans and peas).
I think the idea of the gap is to encourage 'air pruning' of the roots. The design of the trainers is to guide roots down wards, then when they reach the bottom they are 'pruned by contact with the air, which is supposed to encourage sideroots to form. Thus producing (in theory) a stronger healthier root system than in trays or pots.
Thats the theory anyway
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Agree - that's why it doesn't sit on the matting, so a disadvantage with us . = Tim
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Logistical problem Tim ? - Do you mean not having enough ?
You just have to save tham all year (my garage is full of 'em)
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I would be reluctant to trim roots on cauliflower by hand. While root trimming will produce a more fibrous root system any shock to cauliflower could cause 'buttoning' (premature curd formation) of the head. I'm not even sure air pruning would be gentle enough for cauliflower. The poor roots inherent in so many brassicas are really only an issue where the top growth gets tall, such as with Brussels sprouts or sprouting broccoli.
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- some folk don't have a garage, BB?
And John - that's a new one == Tim
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New one?
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- yes - caulis' preferences? It works for all else?? = Tim
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I like BB use loo rolls cheep and efective if you dont have the matting use a catlitter tray I use compost at the bottom and keep it moist spray the top. No root damage sow and plant in one also no pots or containers to sterlise.
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Not new to me Tim, I did a 1000 word paper on buttoning in cauliflower when I was in college (doesn't sound very exciting does it?). I came to the conclusion that cauliflower has to be cossetted from the beginning until the head is induced. Any check in growth in that stage of development can cause buttoning. The head is induced when five true leaves are clearly visible, so it isn't that long a period. Years ago one of my competitors, in an attempt to keep their plants at a 'saleable' size, sprayed their cauliflower with a hormonal dwarfing agent (illegally, as it wasn't approved for food crops!). The feedback I got was that it worked- too well. Apparently gardeners were coming back to our shared retail outlets complaining that their cauliflower plants hadn't grown all summer and had 'buttoned' when the plant was just a few inches high. I sold a lot of cauliflower plants the following year.
Certainly root trimming will work for everything else but why bother if it isn't neccessary? With sprouting broccoli or older, OP Brussels sprouts, it can be beneficial to reduce wind rock, but lower growing brassicas may not need such treatment. Mechanical root trimming does cause a check to any plant so my inclination is to leave well alone. That is my inclination but others may have specific reasons to root prune. One of the goals with F1 Brussels sprouts, such as Peer Gynt, was to make the plants shorter naturally, so reducing wind rock that way.
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Only 1000 words, John? Your regular updates for us are almost in that category!!
But thanks for that brief. Trust you . Old teachings die hard?
It must test you a little sometimes - sitting over there, watching this lot dig ourselves into a hole?? = Tim
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Thomas,
Personally I have never used root trainers... I use cheap 3" pots which fit nicely into milk crates supplied unwittingly by my local dairy.
In this way I can move around 20 pots at a time. They fit nicely in the back of the car when transporting to the lottie... and during the winter the crates are handy to stand on when hanging the wallpaper.
I have never been disappointed with the results from the 3" pots... I always site the plants using a long handled bulb planter from B&Q. The hole is exactly the right size, no root disturbance and therefore no stress.
This year I have tried tall 3" pots for the sweet peas, that I have already started in the unheated greenhouse.
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Not testing at all Tim, absorbing mostly, amusing occassionally. While I am long divorced from growing in the UK hopefully my relaying the received information I remember about how plants grow (given that most of my posts seem to be botanical in content) will help people avoid any holes I have already visited!
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- greatly valued = Tim
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Thanks to all for giving the pros and cons on using root trainers. It certainly has been food for thought. I think I might try a comination of root trainers and the cheap 3" pots that have been suggested and see how each works out.
Thanks again,
Thomas
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...so that's 'thank you' from him....and 'thank you' from me.......sprouting broccoli I've always started off directly into the soil & transplanted when of a suitable size. And then staked and staked and staked to prevent wind-rock. Never used root trainers for anything. :-[
So memo to myself will be to hunt out this thread again in the spring. Cheers, Lishka.
And a Special Happy New Year to You, John - keep 'em coming :-*
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I'm just thinking aloud here - but could you use topless and bottomless clear plastic bottles as root trainers for tall thin things. Half fill them with compost and then seed/s in. When you plant them out plant the whole thing - the plastic above the ground gives wind/cold/slug etc. protection throughout the plant's growth - I was thinking about sweetcorn and runner beans which don't need the width. Infinitely re-usable as well. My neighbour gets through loads and loads of these so I can get them for nowt. If light would affect the roots before you put them out, you could wrap them with something. Comments please
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root trainers are too expensive for me, if it won't grow in a little pot (inherited a thousand or so) or seed tray or some elaborate recycled contraption using toilet rolls or bottles or something, i'm afraid it won't grow!
i'll live and learn for next year... :)
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I could never afford root trainers - I use Jiffy 7's for everything - you can buy them in three different sizes from Kays Horticultural (fab catalogue) in lots of 500 (about £20) up to 2000. The largest ones are good for just about everything(45mm) but I generally use mostly the 30mm size.
Definately the best way to sow seeds I have evr found, Often, if they are drying out too much, then I out 5 jiffys with seedlings in a larger pot, say 5inch - when it comes to planting out, the jiffy's separate well and root disturbance is minimal.
good luck, cheers, suzy