Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: 1066 on February 26, 2011, 08:03:38
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Hi
I have some great varieties of peas to grow this year that I got from swaps on here 8), many are climbers, but my conundrum is that I only have a handful of each variety, and I've been wondering about how best to grow them on for seed saving.
Basically I was going to grow them in a single bed up canes etc (never grown climbing peas before so not sure what will be best), but in order to be able to save seeds I'll need to separate them somehow so I can work out which is which type. And as I don't just want to leave large gaps was trying to think of what I could grow up the canes alongside them? Maybe a squash? or something like Morning Glory?
Maybe someone on here has a better / brighter idea as to how to grow them all for seed saving so that come mid / late summer I'm not puzzling over which one was which. And how do you grow your climbing peas?
FYI - they are Robinson's Purple, WinterKeef, Carruther's Purple Podded, Simpson's Special, Serpette Guilloteau. I do have others but I have more of those and was thinking of growing them up wigwam thingies :)
Thanks, and hope this makes sense!
1066 :)
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I use a Munty frame and put a climbing bean in between each.
Or I sow them in squares and put 4 canes around the outside, the peas grow up the middle and I tie twine at 1 foot intervals around the canes keeps them all inside. You can get about 16 plants in a square with 4 canes doing it that way.
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thanks aj, the square sounds very practical, and won't take up heaps of room or canes.
Will have to look at Munty Frame images to remind myself what they are !
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Haven't done it myself, but for helping to make really sure your peas breed true I'd guess that they could be fleeced, I believe they are self pollinating so this shouldn't cause a problem.
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The peas are pollinated before the flower opens - so there isn't an issue with them breeding true - however it is heartbreaking to pop open all your lovely heritage peas open and find pea moth grubs; if you grow in the cage style, you can easily bung large fleeces over your more rare peas....
I''m growing a load of rare peas again this year if I can get them to germinate - and will be fleecing them as I get sick of the flippin pea moth getting in there.....
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I've just googled Munty frame. It makes sense & I get the gist of it but the comments I saw said it needs to be facing due south. We can't do it at the plot as we would block light from next door. Is it absolutely essential to go that way? I think they did something similar on Beech Grove a couple of years ago.
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1066..if you have lots of climbers but not in quantity you could try something silmilar that I'm doing..
I make wigwams with canes and grow one climbing variety per wigwam..but I mix it climbing beans..one half of the circle for each ;)
[attachment=1]
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thanks for the extra info, I'd forgotten about Pea Moths, which is a bit ridiculous as I was reading about them the other day!! I'm presuming the fleece you use is the standard stuff - I have some but tend to only use it for protection from frosts.
Goodlife, thanks for the photos, makes it nice and clear to me, a thousand words and all that. Now why didn't I think of growing french beans! Something like the Brolottis would be good, nice and obvious!!
GrannyJanny, every year I say I'm going to build / try a Munty frame, and every year (so far) I haven't done it. One of the things is, as you mentioned, shading other areas. I don't have a problem shading out my neighbours (I'm in a corner) but would have a problem of shading other growing areas..... I also look at the space underneath them, and I know some people grow lettuce and the like (using all available space) but I didn't have much success with this. Maybe it would make a nice seating area, shaded from the sun, in summer ;D
As a novice to tall peas :D I'm presuming they produce tendrils that will cling on to anything available? was planning on using string and canes :-\
1 other question while I'm on the subject, when do you start your heritage / special peas off? Don't want to loose them to frosts!
Thanks again, really appreciate the ideas and experiences
1066 :)
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They need to face south because when the peas or beans grow above the vertical side, they need to grow towards the light to utilise the slanted space.
I grow dwarf beans usually under mine, and this year I'll be growing spuds. The reason for this frame is to utilise the space, if you don't use it it isn't worth it. If the frame is on the north side, then the top area doesn't shade the underneath crops at all.
I have one on a middle bed, and the bed next door doesn't get shaded at all; so as long as it isn't too tall there should be no worries about blocking light....due to the angle of the slanted space - sun still gets to the next bed
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I've been pondering about this & I think it might be possible. At the top of our plot we have an 8' wide bed & the other side of it is our neighbours compost bins. So all is not lost ;D.
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I grow one variety per wigwam, unless they're varieties I only have a few seeds of. In that case, I grow two, but make sure I can tell them apart. You could grow Robinson's and Simpson up one, and Carruther's and Serpette up the other, as it's so easy to tell the green and purple pods apart.
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Ah beans and spuds, good idea aj :)
and thank you Robert! All making a lot more sense now!
Between us (you) I now have some schemes and stratgeies to grow these lovely varieties.
So a communal crossed fingers for no late frosts, no pea moths, and some light rain in the evenings and sun in the day ;D ;D ;D .......
1066 :)
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I use the 4 canes method for tall varieties where I have small amounts of seeds, such as the 10 seeds from an HSL packet. Then wind garden twine around the outside of the canes and occasionally diagonally across to hold the growing peas in place inside the 4 canes. It is a corrall. Yes, peas have tendrils but they don't hang on to canes like twining beans do. They need the support from twine around the canes to stay put.
I used to sow outside late March and found that over half the peas rotted, then our mouse problem got worse and all outside sown peas disappeared. The peas that made it got maggotty. So I learned that early sowings escape the attentions of the pea moth by and large. Now I sow indoors in February (ie 4 days ago this year) and transplant a few pea plants together underneath a bottle cloche 4-6 weeks later. Sometimes I throw a fleece over the bottles if we get really cold weather. As a result I have good germination, timely planting out and save most plants from the dratted mice. Plus no pea moth damage at all on the early and mid harvest pods. Really rare peas I plant one plant per bottle cloche, and let them grow through the top of the bottle, so the mice don't nip them off at ground level. But that only works for tall peas or tall beans.
I suggest you start now and start indoors in cases where you have only a few peas. Peas can survive a bit of frost, only a heavy snow covering would snap and kill the young plants or very waterlogged ground. Best of luck.
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Ah beans and spuds, good idea aj :)
and thank you Robert! All making a lot more sense now!
Between us (you) I now have some schemes and stratgeies to grow these lovely varieties.
So a communal crossed fingers for no late frosts, no pea moths, and some light rain in the evenings and sun in the day ;D ;D ;D .......
1066 :)
Don't worry about frosts, peas are not like beans, they can happily tolerate a few degrees of frost and if it gets to minus 10 again, like we had in December, then they will still survive cloched and fleeced.
PS: Carruther's PP were the first to germinate today, thanks Robert
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I soak peas first and when a root starts to show, they go into a gutter of compost, stopped both ends with duck tape. When they are big and strong they go onto allotment into a groove scraped to match the gutter.
I admit I am hopeless at sliding them out of the gutter in the approved manner - I gouge them out in big trowelfuls and put them into the groove in pieces. I can either plant them in a square as described, or in a row, and I too have found that two rows of sticks tied together at the top, with string wound along both sides to corrall them, works well.
I tend to protect the peas against birds etc with tunnels of netting for a week or two, then add the sticks and string.
It seems to me a labour-saving way to get early peas into the ground without mouse or bird attack.
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I have never grown peas before, but have heard it is possible to grow them
from pack of supermarket dried ones & just happen to have a packet of dried
marrowfat ones in larder - so have a couple of questions:-
a) is it possible?
b) are they climbers?
c) indoor or outdoor sowings (when)
d) Are they harvested when in pods or when dried (or both?)
All help, as ever, gratefully received
Debs :-*
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I'm sure I read on this forum that someone has done it. Someone who is clever & can do links will be along soon. You can also grow pea shoots from them.
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a) yes
b) depends but I would provide support to 5-6'
c)outdoor, end of March
d) either... but they probably don't taste great fresh... :)
Yes I'm sure these questions have been up before... but I'm not savvy enough to look for the link.. :-[
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Relief. Thanks David, I'm not the only one ;D.
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a) is it possible?
b) are they climbers?
c) indoor or outdoor sowings (when)
d) Are they harvested when in pods or when dried (or both?)
All help, as ever, gratefully received
Debs :-*
Debs,
as they are commercially harvested peas, they are unlikely to be climbers, because combine harvesters can't cope with tall peas. I do not know whether they will be self supporting or whether they will benefit from short twiggy hedge prunings or short sticks to help support them. You can add supports later if necessary.
Sow indoors or outdoors - for pea shoots (young pea foliage) something like a window box would be great. If you type pea shoots into the search box, you should be able to find the old posts. One thread is here:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,58490.0.html
All marrowfat are fairly sweet peas, but bigger than the tiny peas (petit pois) from the frozen food department. More like what they sell as 'garden peas'.
When the pods are very young, they can be harvested as mangetouts. Later woody bits develop in the pods and you have to wait for the peas to develop inside. After shelling out the peas, woody pods can still be used for peapod wine or for vegetable stock.
Unless they have been in the larder for umpteen years, they should germinate, even though damp warm kitchens are not the best places for seed storage. Good luck :)
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One mistake I make every year with peas is not sowing enough - I've set aside my largest bed this just for peas - can't get enough of them and half never make it past the allotment gates ::)
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i grow shop bought dried peas and have done so for many years
but dont expect big pods...av around 3 inches long and contains around 6 peas
i grow up netting and sow in april in a 8 inch wide x 20 foot drill
jim
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As I thought - such informed persons can always help on A4A ;)
So, a good plan might be to grow on damp kitchen roll, plant in guttering in g'house and transplant contents when frosts are past.
Grow up netting fixed to south facing garden fence (gave up my allotment) and wait. . .
Saddad, Why won't they taste very sweet?
Debs
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If they've been developed for dried peas, they may be a variety with less sugar. I grow a lot of the old varieties which were used as dried peas, and they're not sweet at all. It didn't matter to the people who grew them as they used them in things like soups and pease pudding. They're ideal for cooking with, rather than a little pile of peas on the side of your plate, as they're more substantial, with a lot more protein. Apparently Carlin Pea, the oldest known variety (first recorded in 1662) is about 25% protein, while modern processed peas are around 7%, and green peas 4.5%.
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We grow a petit pois variety Waverex. The small pods contain loads of sweet tasting peas.
We watched a telly programme last year in which dried peas (ie mushy peas) were germinated and used for pea shoots, ie for salads and garnish. They are very tasty, and shall be growing them again this year.
valmarg
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tip to stop mice digging up newly plantd pea seed
after sowing i place a strip of fine mesh wire netting [ 1/4 inch mesh ] over the top of the pea drill and peg it down along the row
stops mice digging up peas
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thanks Galina, will get sowing ;D ;D ;D . Plus the other tips like using plastic bottles as cloches.
Every year I try to grow peas, and every year I seem to have a miserable crop! I do things like forget to net them so the birds get to them 1st, or don't give the early ones protection from our spring gales / wind! So this year, sow indoors, harden off, plant with the 4 canes and string, label them clearly (cos I won't remember whats where!), plastic bottle cloches at the ready, fleece to stop flea moth.................oh and memo to self to remember to water / mulch ::)
This year I WILL SUCCEED :-X .................................................pretty please!
I also realise that I have an inordinate amount of different beans to grow as well, fortunately I'm a bit more clued up about those ::)
1066 :)
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My problems..well almost all..stopped when I started sowing mine in pots..5 or 6 peas per 3 in pot and I keep those in greenhouse away from mice.
And then I plant those pots without separating the plants..each potfull side by side around wigwam.
Now I've only got sparrows to dealwith..but one the plants have grown halfway up on canes the mesh that I use against the birds can come off and normally they are safe by then...
I done the guttering way too and it's fine when you do straight rows.
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my first sowing of broadbeans back in late Jan was left in the greenhouse. I came back after a week to find a neat little dip in the soil in the middle of each pot where the mouse had carefully extracted the swollen bean. I guess he was hungry so thats fine but I cover my pots in the greenhouse now.
The little fella must be a trapize artist
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These early sowings are tricky aren't they! I tend to do most of mine in pots anyway, although as my ground on the plot is vastly improved I think I will be doing more and more direct sowings, just to save on the general chaos in the house (no greenhouse :'( )
As these peas are special (swaps etc) I've given most of them the luxury of root trainers - I hope they appreciate it ::)
I like the idea of a 3" pot and 5 or 6 peas - no root disturbance etc :) The standard peas I tend to put in 5" pots with approx 10 or 12 and then split them up at planting time :-\
Fingers crossed, the sowing has been done :)
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my first sowing of broadbeans back in late Jan was left in the greenhouse. I came back after a week to find a neat little dip in the soil in the middle of each pot where the mouse had carefully extracted the swollen bean. I guess he was hungry so thats fine but I cover my pots in the greenhouse now.
The little fella must be a trapize artist
Wood mouse? Those things can really climb.
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I have sown Leo box peas, they grow to about two feet tall, I use the same method of support as for broad beans IE sticks at each corner and string to keep peas upright. They do not taste the same as garden peas the reason for that is they are bred to be used as a dried pea. If you can get them the best dried pea to grow is Bachelor's Number 1
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Hi all,
Very interesting reading your pea stories ;D I have just brought a packet called Twinkle, (from T &M) It say`s on the pack, a very early variety, self supporting when sowed in a block. any body had experience of these? how did they do?
Regards, Adrian.
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twinkle twinkle little star :D
I haven't heard about those, but I guess as they are earlies you could start some of now :)
Maybe someone will be along in a while who has tried them ;)
1066 :)
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1066, I am using root trainers again this year for some hsl seed from Jayb.
I am not sure if the soil should be compacted a little but I did it anyway. This is because when I used them last year for the first time and when it came to planting, I found that all the soil fell away when opended the trainers up
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Ok peeps, more advice required please :)
I have put shop- bought dried marrowfat peas on to damp kitchen roll and they
have germinated after only 3-4 days :o
I'm now ready to plant - but should I use 3" pots or toilet roll tubes??
If toilet roll tubes, do I fill to top with compost & then sow pea or half fill & sow pea, thus leaving half roll for emerging growth to prevent snapping??
Over to you all :-\
Debs
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debs....plant em in a large seed tray [ a round 50 to a tray ] and plant them out in a double row in april
keep in a cold frame or greenhouse till planting time
regards JIM
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Debs..what are you growing those marrowfat peas for? For peas or to eat as shoots..
If for peas....you can plant them in ether way it doesn't matter...but in pots you will fit more in..or trays..
If for shoots..any larger container will do as they are treated like salad crop..cut and come again.. ;)
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Ok peeps, more advice required please :)
I have put shop- bought dried marrowfat peas on to damp kitchen roll and they
have germinated after only 3-4 days :o
I'm now ready to plant - but should I use 3" pots or toilet roll tubes??
If toilet roll tubes, do I fill to top with compost & then sow pea or half fill & sow pea, thus leaving half roll for emerging growth to prevent snapping??
Over to you all :-\
Debs
Toilet roll inners are fine for peas, because they allow for a deep root run. The far more expensive solution would be commercial roottrainers. RTs are the rolls royce equipment for starting peas indoors. Toilet tubes achieve the same long roots without the expense, but are not as easy to use. You fill toilet tubes to the top and when you are ready to plant the peas out, the planting hole is a little deeper than the tube and you bury the top of the roll too. If you don't, the tubes (which are not yet degraded at this stage), form a barrier and the peas can dry out inside the tubes. Also they become prone to windrock.
The standard 3 inch pots also work fine for your sprouted seeds. If you have a deep seed tray that would work. I often use the plastic trays that supermarket fruit comes in, they are deep enough too.
If you want them for pea shoots, they could got straight into window boxes at this stage. If you want straight rows, the guttering method is popular. Hope it goes well.
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Debs the only advice I have about using loo rolls is don't :) I have real problems with them in that I find they get too dry, and stuff doesn't really grow well for me. But maybe that's just me ::)
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Goodlife - I'm growing them for peas, as I have lots of salad on the go
I have an empty piece of guttering in my cold greenhouse - would they survive if planted there &
we have a frost? ( I am in NE by the coast).
If they would be ok there, I shall sow some in guttering & some in 3" pots.
Debs
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I start a dozen peas in a three-inch pot.
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Guttering should be fine..if you can still keep them cold GH or something like that untill they are couple of inches tall... ;)
1066...watering loo rolls has not been problem for me...I only do parnips on them though.
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well they've started to germinate, a few tiny shoots have started to show 8)
About the fleece and pea moths. Do you guys fleece the peas from the start (at planting) or do you only fleece say in May onwards?
Thanks again peeps :)
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If you are fleecing against pea moth you don't need to do it yet... if it's to get them growing then yes.. :)
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thanks :) I'll give them some protection from pigeons and the like but will hold off with the fleece for now :)
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I only fleece against birds..as for against the moths..well, I think is bit difficult to do properly, there is always gaps left for moths to get in...actually I've never found moths to do that much damage..if there is plenty of of growth and peas about you might get odd pod with maggots.
Only time I've had moth problem was when I had some pea plants that were struggling to make decent growth for first place..so those odd pods were all having some 'visitors' inside >:( ::)
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It's not practical to fleece wigwams of tall peas. I might use rhubarb spray on one variety this year, to try and get moth-free peas for the show. I use lots of dangling CD's to deter the pigeons, which are reasonably successful as long as mature pods aren't left on the plants, and they don't get tangled up with the wigwams when the wind blows.
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Hi Robert, it was Goodlife's photo on page 1 that was used for inspiration! Do agree with trying to keep things fixed on and tied down, we do get some blustery winds round here.
I keep meaning to take a look at what Joy Larkolm recommends.....
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I have my peas outside under bottle cloches. I chit them on kithcne roll on north facing windowsill until root shows then it is straight outside. Some on lottie are over an inch high. Some varieities are very tough. Snow peas (Swiss giant) mangetout, latvian and purple podded in my experience all very tough. Last two have very pretty flowers I grow them through shrubs in the flower border at home as well.
I need to protect them against deer, voles, mice,rabbits, squirrels and deer. I have them in early as a deer and wind protection Our site is very windy from NorthWest so a screen of peas is great. The courgettes in particular benefit from the wall of peas so the sooner they are up the better. Luckily the deer do not seem to like the pods until they are dry.
Latvian very early but very small peas but nice for a bit of a nibble I do not think any have reached the pot.
I use cotton to deter the pigeons, they seem to have sussed out cds here. They do not seem to like threads they cannot see I think they hum in the wind as well. Lottie should hopefully be ok this year there is rape in the next field and a bird scaring system.
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As a rule of thumb, pea pods that set during June are entirely maggot free here, anything that sets during July can be maggotty. The trick is to sow early enough to get most of the harvest before July. Which fits in with food production in general, because from late June/early July onwards the first beans are ready and peas become less important. Having said that, last year we had practically no maggots on the later pods either. As we had another hard winter - maybe - the numbers are down again this year.
If I had late-sown peas I would fleece from the last week in June onwards.
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I had problems with moth in a couple of varieties but neither of them were late, so they must have set the seeds in June. Never had a problem before. I have frozen all my peas before sowing this year to try and kill them off.
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The moth was back last year after a couple of years without due to the dreadful summers we had. They're easy to kill, but they survive in the soil. I haven't found the sort of detail I want on their life cycle, but there's something here:
http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/techniques/pests/pea-moth.htm
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Have sown in guttering & in seed tray in unheated greenhouse - approx 50 in total.
Having never sown peas before, don't know if i've overdone amounts :-\
Debs
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we've done 2x 4' lengths of guttering today, hanging in the poly :)
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Have sown in guttering & in seed tray in unheated greenhouse - approx 50 in total.
Having never sown peas before, don't know if i've overdone amounts :-\
Debs
You can't overdo amounts with peas. 50 would be right for one person in our household. The overall yield is lower than beans, especially if you shell peas out of pods. There is more yield from mangetouts where you eat the pods as well and even more from pea shoots/mangetouts combined.
Then there is the percentage of peas that get consumed in the garden right away and never see the pot at all. ;D
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Then there is the percentage of peas that get consumed in the garden right away and never see the pot at all. ;D
That's the bit I'm really looking forward to most :D
We'll have to swap notes on our successes and failures Debs :)
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You can't overdo amounts with peas. 50 would be right for one person in our household.
Spot on. I started off about 150 yesterday and will probably stagger the rest over the next few weeks.
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elhuerto, when you say "sow the rest" how many more do you mean? I really want to suss this pea growing thing, in previous years my attempts have been pitiful! I've got approx 150 peas in various pots which will be planted out over the coming week or so, then I also have the specialty ones, which are mostly for seed saving. Oh, and there are only 2 of us :)
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One cannot have too many peas ;D..and I'm definitely not counting my peas :o ;D
I've just sown some spare peas for shoots into mushroom tray..I just 'chucked' several handfulls there...so that must be 100 easily..and some seed guardian stock for HSL..well that was 30+..and I haven't started for other seed saving peas nor those for cropping to eat later on.
I don't think I have enough fingers and toes for counting that far ;D
Look what you done now..do I really have to start counting my peas so I can satisfy my own curiosity now.. ::) oh dear..it's going to be long spring, I'm counting the days to summer already..and peas... :-X
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My plan is to have about 200 split into 5 rows. 2 rows of climbing peas (Alderman that do quite well here) and 3 rows of standalone plants, Kelvedon Wonder, another I can't remember off the top of my head and finally Onward to fill in the gaps for a later crop. Family of 5 but only 3 pea eaters (2 pea haters).
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Robert, after you plant a dozen peas in 3 inch plots, what happens when they go in the garden, do you plant them as a pot with aa 10 or seperate the seedlings.. thank you XX Jeannine
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I don't think I have enough fingers and toes for counting that far ;D
Look what you done now..do I really have to start counting my peas so I can satisfy my own curiosity now.. ::) oh dear..it's going to be long spring, I'm counting the days to summer already..and peas... :-X
It was easy for me to have a rough count as they are mostly sown in pots with about 10 peas to a pot. Anyway Goodie, you can stop counting now ;D
(2 pea haters).
Nooooooooo! I didn't think this was possible!!
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Robert - you mentioned rhubarb spray - what is this good for?
Is it made by submerging rhubarb leaves in water??
Debs
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Jeannine..I'm not sure what Robert does with his pots but I plant mine without separating the plants..just dunk them in as they are..well, minus the pot ::)
I plant mine so that each clump is almost touching the other or with small gaps,,depending how much space and how many clumps I have to play with.
I haven't noticed thet either way makes much difference. ;)
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That's how I plant them out as well. You boil rhubarb leaves to extract the oxalic acid, though steeping them would probably do it. It's quite a powerful insecticide, and not as lethal to us as nicotine, which used to kill people every year.
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peas in guttering in g'house poking through already, as are the others in seed tray . . .& have more on
damp kitchen roll!! 8) :-\
Debs
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I'll be starting some later in the month. There's no hurry.
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I planted out the 1st batch today - approx 120 of them ::) will get round to the dwarf varieties and the remaining climbers over the next week or so.
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I planted my first the other day. 12 pots with 12 Serpette Guilotteau in each. That'll do a nice wigwam, and there are plenty left. I'll probably grow some of them out for seed next year; if I separate cropping and seed production it's easier to keep the balance right.