Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: WokingGus on January 02, 2016, 14:30:55
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Hi, A question for you all if I may? Casseille Vs Jostaberry?
I’m new to the growing my own food thing. Having only had a garden now for two years, I’ve got limited space in the garden so need to make everything count. The various books and web pages seem to concentrate on the Jostaberry. Though if the write up’s of the plants are anything to go by, the Casseille seems to be more productive with a sweeter taste. However, I notice that the suppliers sell the Jostaberry rather than the Casseille. D.T.Brown has even stopped selling it [Casseille]. Even RHS wisely only has the Jostaberry on their cultivated plots and the guys looking after the soft fruits section at RHS when asked did not seem to know a lot about the Casseille but as you’d expect knew loads about the Jostaberry.
So, my research is grinding to a halt. Casseille seems the best on write ups, but Jostaberry has the RHS/suppliers preference. Why is this when the Casseille seems a better, more productive plant?
Please may I have your thoughts as experienced growers who have experience of both?
Thanks. Gus
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Firstly, Casseille is both expensive and much, much newer (to the UK) than Josta.
Just about anyone who wants a Josta can get a cutting free unless they live on their own island without a boat.
Journals and the RHS are sensitive to a larger audience - and flavour seems to be of minor importance to them (how much are food growers outnumbered by flower freaks? 10 to 1? 100 to 1?).
Niche stuff only becomes news if it has some health angle - especially if married to a convenience angle (no matter how bonkers it turns out to be in the fullness of time).
I would love to try Casseille but I'm too mean to pay a premium price for it - I have lots of pals who can't resist something new (despite being good or even great & sensible people in most other ways) and one of them is bound to waver soon... :angel11: - that means I won't push it...
Anyway, Josta is well worth the space on an allotment - but it wouldn't qualify for my garden space for several reasons:
1) It tends to fruit over a short period - my garden is for things that need constant attention and/or picking - like L.caerulia - the honeyberry (sic - lousy name).
2) It is markedly blander than the Blackcurrant - it can be more pleasant to eat raw in quantity (unfortunately the pigeons agree) but much less flavour per sqm of land. Makes a reasonable juice but I tend to drink it almost neat whereas BC juice lasts me ages.
3) I think it produces less Kg of fruit per sqm too.
4) If you don't prune it regularly as a BC then it carries on producing to 2m tall like a dwarf apple - which tempts you into sloth and takes up even more land.
On the other hand it has some major good points - mainly that it's untroubled by big bud (how is Casseille??) or anything else much. And you can prune it anyhow - as a hedge if you want. It can also be significantly earlier than BCs - a welcome early taste in the Spring.
I'm sure others will fill in any gaps...
Cheers.
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http://www.meadowplant.co.uk/ourshop/prod_3815652-Casseille-Berry.html
A bit cheaper than T&M and gives some info about the difference
I have a jostaberry and find it very disappointing.
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i have 2 jostas and they get very big so if you only have a small place to cultivate watch out dont know where you live but im in clacton and have some cuttings on the go at the moment so by sept this year they will be on there way to be planted out and next year you will have fruit i think they taste ok the skin can be a bit tough in jam so i pass then thru a jelly bag first hopethis helps
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Thank you all. Vinlander, that all makes sense. Has anybody got a Casseille? If the Josta’ is “disappointing”, Is it worth splashing out on the extra for a Casseille?
Thanks Gus
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Have to disagree about the taste of Josta, I prefer it to Blackcurrant which to my mind smells of cat wee.
Agree though that you need a big bush to get enough fruit to be of any use. Actually makes a good hedge though.
Never lost any fruit to birds though and we have a lot of problems in the garden with predatory feathereds.
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im a fan of if you fancy it have it what ever you buy youll get at least 7 years of fruit and yes black currants do smell of wee but they taste good as do jostas i have both and use them in many ways so cost dont really come into it if you go for blackcurrant do your homrwork on what you need from the bush jam fresh or juice and youll get the variety best suited to your needs
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Welcome to A4A. :wave:
It could be casseile and jostaberry are the same thing. Here is an old A4A post from 2010.
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=58474.msg598042;topicseen (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=58474.msg598042;topicseen)
One poster says: French for blackcurrant is CASSis
French for gooseberry is grosEILLE.
Hence CASSEILLE
The French language purification quango does not like foreign terms and makes it's own words up.
So casseille may be nothing more than a T&M marketing ploy.
I found a jostaberry bush on a negelected plot at our site so got the fruit rather than let it go to waste. I like it as it the fruit was really ripe after most of the other soft fruit were picked so they extended the harvest.
I used the same bush to get some cuttings of my own. :happy7:
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My problem with jostaberry might be due to its position. Someone over the other side of the site has a lovely one completely different. Lovely fruit. Hangs over the path, so the bird did get a few!!! (I did water their tomatoes and squashes while they were on holiday and the blackbird had the rest.)
I have now started a new one on my other plot so hope it will do better.
Casseille has different parents varieties to Jostaberry.
Some of the newer blackcurrants have a fab flavour. Ebony is lovely and so is Big Ben. Certainly outperforms the jostaberry.
The great thing about them all is they root so easily so may be the price is a good investment. Mother of a million....
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i have 2 jostas and they get very big so if you only have a small place to cultivate watch out
If you prune Jostas as hard as a Blackcurrant then they can occupy the same space as a BC and maybe 50-80% taller.
I don't think the cropping is that much worse if you do - the Kg per sqm is broadly the same for me - obviously a 1.5x1.5x1.5m bush will produce around 13.5x more fruit than a 0.5x0.5x1m stool - that sounds like a big difference but it's just geometry - on the other hand the pruning work per plant is about the same...
Cheers.
PS. Any news on Casseille re: big bud?
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Thanks Again.
Do you know if the Casseille is actually as good as the write ups? Or, is it still so new that nobody has yet actually seen one growing?
Thanks Gus.
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It is rather interesting because my jostaberry is quite different from the bush of one of my neighbours. Their fruit is larger and must better tasting than mine. I am beginning to wonder if the other one is in fact a casseille all along.
I have a couple rooting so hope they do ok. I will put some more in next year.
According to Wikipedia there are several varieties of jostaberry I think I may have got the wrong one.
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It is rather interesting because my jostaberry is quite different from the bush of one of my neighbours. Their fruit is larger and must better tasting than mine. I am beginning to wonder if the other one is in fact a casseille all along.
I have a couple rooting so hope they do ok. I will put some more in next year.
According to Wikipedia there are several varieties of jostaberry I think I may have got the wrong one.
intresting you should say that another plot holder said to me last year jostaberrys taste nasty so i gave him a handful of mine to taste and he said they were very different to his and tasted quite nice there maybe something in thisaint got a clue what ones ive got theyare cuttings from a friends
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Like you I was given mine from someone who was very keen on it.
The other one came from the local garden centre but it has long since lost its label it was quite expensive. I remember seeing the label and gasping a bit. But is has proved better than my free on.
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mine taste great trying to find the right pic of them hope this is the right one
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found another one
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Found this old thread.
I now have Jostaberry 1 which came from a Milton Keynes allotment.
Jostaberry 2 a cutting from a bush which came at great expense from local garden centre
Some in full sun and some in shade. All my cuttings have taken so I will have a forest. If anyone is passing this way in a few weeks time they are welcome to one.
Casseille which I bought and which has grown very slowly. First year it hardly grew at all.
They seem to take longer to first fruit than a blackcurrant, so I am unfortunately still waiting to compare the tastes.
I think Big Ben blackcurrant is a better deal. Bigger berries than the Jostaberries
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Did you say Big Ben berries are larger than jostaberries? WoW! must look into this. Jostas here are about half inch from top to bottom and blackberries are far smaller. Big Ben sounds a monster.
I usually 'top and tail' Jostas. Do you do that with Big Ben? And how much are on a bunch? This sounds too good to be true :icon_cheers:
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When I bought my Casseille bush, DT Brown said it 'is a cross between 'blackcurrant Giant Boskoop and a gooseberry'
So perhaps it is the variety of the parents that make the difference - now they just sell Jostaberries without any varietal information.
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I do not top and tail Big Ben, I just eat them. They are quite sweet. And yes they are much larger than jostaberries here. But the jostaberries here are quite small. But big ben are described as twice the size of a normal blackberry or the size of a 1p piece.
Good size bunches. I like them a lot. They are not the strongest of growers.
The cheapest available are from Ashridge but they were miniscule only about an inch of original wood, and have failed to take off. The blackcurrants I put to root in June ie six months later, are considerably bigger now. At the rate they are growing I will be lucky to some fruit from them in 2019.
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You've just talked me into buying a Big Ben - got mine, a 1 year old plant, for £6.50 + £3.80p&p from Blackmoor :D
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I do hope you like it as much as I do.
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I have waited a very long time, but finally my Casseille has a few flowers. No many but just enough to for the first taste. It has been very slow getting going.
My jostaberrys which I rooted from the nice tasting plant on another plot is doing very well the ones I put to root 2016 had a good amount of flower. I have been comparing the leaves with my original poor tasting plant and actually the leaves are different. Each leaf has a fluted piece on it, one plant it is on the right and the other one the left.
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Ohhh exciting :D
I new I was moving plots in March, so over winter I took some cuttings from the enormous Casseille on the old plot and just popped them into soil on the new plot. They are all growing away, so fingers crossed they have rooted.
I'm just wondering how long I'll have to wait for fruit on the Big Ben, it was a 2 year old plant.
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I would expect very little fruit the year after it is moved, and then getting going year three. Was it a bareroots plants. The cuttings I put to root in 2016 are now beginning to have a few flower.
I bought several different blackcurrant bushes last year. And only two sets have done well. One set they sent the wrong variety - refund. One set did not grow well and are now still smaller than some I rooted six months later - refund. One set half of the plants have not survived the winter and no basal growth - just contacting supplier. So the winner is Otter farm. Their plants are magnificent, came in pots, and are now covered in flowers and a good amount of new basal growth. Unfortunately they have put the cost of their p&p up quite a lot. A close second is Bunkers hill farm shop. Theirs were barerooted but I got them soon after delivery at the shop, they do not seem to have noticed the move and are also flowering. They also have good basal growth for next year. They only stock a very limited number of varieties.
I have waited a long time for my Casseilles. I hope they are worth the wait, the plant was very expensive. I have now put a small piece pf it to root. So hopefully it will flower in 2020 but it was rather small, so it might be 2021.
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The 2nd year Big Ben was bought bare root at the beginning of October and was planted in a big tub. It had a good rootball when I planted it out at the end of March, so fingers crossed for at least a couple to taste this year :) Sounds like you've had a bad time with the blackcurrants, no problem with mine from Blackmoor.
I don't expect the Caseille cuttings to fruit for at least a couple of years, but they do grow quickly. I hope you like them when they do fruit for you.
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my two josta's are full of blossom should be a bumper crop
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josta's are starting to swell now
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jostas putting on some weight now
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They're looking good :)