Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Tee Gee on June 21, 2020, 17:56:56
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Just a few pics to show you my miniature allotment!
The herbaceous border currently has Spring Onions, Carrots, 1 Plum tree, 2 Apple trees 1 Pear tree, with Gladioli, Alstroemeria, Spray Chrysanthemums and Freesia mixed among.
Still, quite a bit of space to go at which I will fill when ongoing plants are ready for planting out.
I was too embarrassed to show you my Tomatoes & Peppers!
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I wouldn’t be embarrassed showing chillies and peppers, I think it’s always interesting to see how others grow and the variations in growth across the country. What are the plants in pots sunken into the ground in the herbacious boarder?
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Everything is looking good my beetroot has been nibbled by the pigeons from the next door allotment will the beets still form without leaves or do they need the leaves for feed
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A few shots from the plot
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Ah! I remember the days!
Looking Good Ancell
What are the plants in pots sunken into the ground in the herbacious boarder?
Hi Deb
This bed is very much 'Work in Progress" and I am experiment with my plant placement so my basic plan is to practice with potted plants sunk into the soil to create the effect of what they would look like if being grown in the soil normally.
Added to that; I am also thinking in terms of what this border will look like during the winter months, last winter it was quite bare and I don't want that.
So what is in my mind to create what I call an "Edible Herbaceous Border" with interest all the year round.
To answer your question I have added another photo to clarify the situation at the top left-hand corner is my Spray Chrysanthemums in front of the Plum Tree.
I have a double row of Gladioli in a Chevron pattern in front of my Apple & Pear trees, and between the trees I have Aconitum & Phlox paniculata against the fence both of these plant types give height to the back of the border.
In front of these I have alternate buckets of Alstroemeria and Carrots. I am hoping the ferny leaves of the Carrots will complement the Alstroemeria.
I was given a few bunching Onion seedlings from a friend and as I had no particular place to put them I stuck them here!
The row of sunken pots at the front are Freesias which once they have flowered will be replaced with potted Spring bulbs.
I haven't decided if I will make the bulbs permanent as yet, I will decide next Spring!
In the bare area I am planning on planting various salad crops alternating with some young perennials that I have on the go which can't go in the coldframe as my both cold frames are full of Lettuce, Radish & Carrots.
In terms of my Tomatoes & Peppers I have relented to display them as seen in the attached photos.
There you are now I have overcome my embarrassment and shown them! :icon_cheers: :BangHead:
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Ah! I remember the days!
Looking Good Ancell
What are the plants in pots sunken into the ground in the herbacious boarder?
Hi Deb
This bed is very much 'Work in Progress" and I am experiment with my plant placement so my basic plan is to practice with potted plants sunk into the soil to create the effect of what they would look like if being grown in the soil normally.
Added to that; I am also thinking in terms of what this border will look like during the winter months, last winter it was quite bare and I don't want that.
So what is in my mind to create what I call an "Edible Herbaceous Border" with interest all the year round.
To answer your question I have added another photo to clarify the situation at the top left-hand corner is my Spray Chrysanthemums in front of the Plum Tree.
I have a double row of Gladioli in a Chevron pattern in front of my Apple & Pear trees, and between the trees I have Aconitum & Phlox paniculata against the fence both of these plant types give height to the back of the border.
In front of these I have alternate buckets of Alstroemeria and Carrots. I am hoping the ferny leaves of the Carrots will complement the Alstroemeria.
I was given a few bunching Onion seedlings from a friend and as I had no particular place to put them I stuck them here!
The row of sunken pots at the front are Freesias which once they have flowered will be replaced with potted Spring bulbs.
I haven't decided if I will make the bulbs permanent as yet, I will decide next Spring!
In the bare area I am planning on planting various salad crops alternating with some young perennials that I have on the go which can't go in the coldframe as my both cold frames are full of Lettuce, Radish & Carrots.
In terms of my Tomatoes & Peppers I have relented to display them as seen in the attached photos.
There you are now I have overcome my embarrassment and shown them! :icon_cheers: :BangHead:
Those toms do not look happy! Is it a case of bought in compost with aminopyralid content?, or have you been mean to them?
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Is it a case of bought in compost with aminopyralid content?, or have you been mean to them?
Wish. I knew!
One factor is down to me and that is I used multi-purpose compost rather than potting compost ( not used to this container gardening yet) but on finding out I started adding fertiliser ( FB&B)
The compostI used has peat in it but I have no idea what else might be in it.
I am not one for reading directions for use that are printed on the bag, but if I had read the instructions on these bags I don’t think I would have bought it. Among the instructions in a box in large text/ print was the message” NOT FOR COMMERCIAL USE “
Plus it mentioned it had a WETTING AGENT in it.
Now I know how useful a wetting agent can be if using a peat based compost but I don’t think it is really necessary for some of the rubbish compost on the market today!
So I contacted the company and talked to them about my problem and got mixed results!
Firstly they said I should have used a ‘Potting Compost’ to which I agreed.
Next I mentioned that my compost becomes water-logged particularly in large pots and they said that I must have put it there and I agreed BUT! I thought that their wetting agent was aggravating the situation and was holding onto the water rather than letting it drain off.
No reply from my contact!
Next I asked about the Not for Commercial use comment and was advised that what I had was a Retail Recipe and that the commercial industry got a different recipe eg more fertiliser among other things. So. I commented that it seems that there is one product for commercial gardeners and another for the amateur gardener!
No reply
Then when I mentioned that he will have lost the sale of a pallet of compost next season( we share a pallet on the allotments) he said that he would have a word with our supplier when we are about to place our order.
To what extent I asked then conveniently he moved to an area nearby where there was no reception and lost the connection.
So I sent him an email with the photos I showed you guys and I am still awaiting a reply, luckily I am not holding my breathe while I wait!
As I said at the top of his reply I wish I new what the problem is?
My opinion is that it is drainage plus the wetting agent are at fault, OK I accept the lack of fertiliser in multi-purpose as opposed to potting compost.
So now I add FB&B + Perlite and the compost seems somewhat better but I am unsure if I will save my tomatoes.
I have repotted half my tomatoes in my new recipe and left the ones that might survive in the purchased recipe!
One thing I have learned is: my cherry type tomatoes are fairing better than the larger varieties.
Sadly I am not too fond of Cherry types so fingers crossed I hope the new recipe works so I can get a few decent tomatoes!
So now you all know as much as me!
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I'd be the first to agree that bought compost is very variable.. and not half of what it used to be. Not only has the quality declined, so has the volume... strangely though the price hasn't....
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TEE Gee ,
I think what you are suffering is a trace of aminopyralid/clomoprid contamination. This may be because your compost is blended with green waste compost (to reduce /substitute the peat content) .Somebody has put their treated lawn mowings into the green waste skip at a tip somewhere, or it may be that the blend contains straw from cereal or bean production in agriculture. If you care to examine the Charles Dowding website,
https://charlesdowding.co.uk/
he has a growing list of problems reported. Suggest that you get the supplier to give you their test results of a sample. also, do you have the bag, which should have the batch reference. Which brand is it? A free supply would be equitable
It may be worth taking cuttings as side shoots appear, grow them on in your best soil and feed them Tomorite or similar.For comparison /crop.
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Cherry tomatoes are good for cooking Tee Gee. Use them for pasta sauces and other curry and meat or fish dishes that want cooked tomatoes.
Have you read, or watched, Geoff Hamilton's ornamental Kitchen Garden - all about growing fruit and veggies in amongst ornamentals or in an ornamental way - organic, productive and fools most pests. It won't help with your current compost problem but help with having a productive garden that looks good all year.
PS - I've copied your garlic drying technique with a pallet and it's looking good so far. Thanks.
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Thanks for all your replies which I will try to answer;
I'd be the first to agree that bought compost is very variable and not half of what it used to be. Not only has the quality declined, so has the volume... strangely though the price hasn't....saddad
Couldn't agree more!
TEE Gee ,
I think what you are suffering is a trace of aminopyralid/clomoprid contamination. This may be because your compost is blended with green waste compost (to reduce /substitute the peat content) .
If you care to examine the Charles Dowding website,
https://charlesdowding.co.uk/ he has a growing list of problems reported.Ancellsfarmer
Have read the first paragraph re-aminopyralid and was surprised that the problem was still around!
Will read the whole article later!
Suggest that you get the supplier to give you their test results of a sample. also, do you have the bag, which should have the batch reference. Which brand is it? A free supply would be equitable
Based on my previous conversation I think it would be a waste of time
It may be worth taking cuttings as side shoots appear, grow them on in your best soil and feed them Tomorite or similar.For comparison /crop.
Ancellsfarmer
I have decided to bin the affected plants I might get 4 or5 out of the 17 I planted!
Peppers are alive but that is all I can say for them!
But thanks for the suggestion!
Cherry tomatoes are good for cooking Tee Gee. Use them for pasta sauces and other curry and meat or fish dishes that want cooked tomatoes.
Thanks Obelixx, but I was referring to a compost recipe not a tomato recipe :happy7:
Have you read, or watched, Geoff Hamilton's ornamental Kitchen Garden - all about growing fruit and veggies in amongst ornamentals or in an ornamental way
PS - I've copied your garlic drying technique with a pallet and it's looking good so far. Obelixx
No I have not read the article but what I am fairly certain of is; Geoff did not use the rubbish composts that are around today!
I am currently thinking my next line of attack is going back to making my own compost again!
OK I think from the little research I have done it is going to be more expensive but if it guarantees results, then I think it will be better off!
Thanks again to you all its much appreciated! Tg
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Not an article @Tee Gee. It's a book - often found n charity shops - and there's a DVD that comes in a set of 3 with Cottage Garden and Paradise Gardens for very little money. Inspirational stuff for people wanting healthy fruit and veg but flowers too. Well before aminopyralid.
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A great book.. I found it inspiring.
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I like your idea of keeping things in pots to decide where to place them, and the mixture of flowers and veg is very potager like! I think I was hugely influenced by Joy Larkcom and her decorative vegetable gardening when I first started my allotment and I still love trying to make veg both decorative and edible!
You poor toms do look a bit unhappy, it does make you wonder what the real constituents in that Commercial compost are. Ridiculous really, you can buy a sandwich with 30 ingredients listed on the wrapper, but soil you want to grow your edibles in can be made up with pretty much anything....except peat now of course...!
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Another good book, I blame it for Alison taking over the top lotties with all the lavender, hollyhocks and sundry other flowers.
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I think I have found my problem ...as I suspected the soil was too acid! Something I suspected when I saw the damage to the roots (pic 1)
I took delivery of a soil tester yesterday (having googled dozens) It lets me know if my plants are too wet or too dry, I can test the compost pH, and as if I need it this weather it also tells me if my plants are getting sufficient light.
When I tested my compost I was getting regular recordings of 6 I even got one or two readings of around 5 plus it regularly showed my compost was too wet!
I have now decided to start making my own compost again, I think it will be more expensive to do but if I get the product I want it will be worth it!
Bulk Peat is rather difficult to come by at garden centres but I can get it online if I really need to!
I have had a chat with the sales lad at my local garden centre, and he has put me onto a product that might work, so I have ordered a couple of bags!
This Coved thing is affecting him as much as anyone at the moment, yes they can open but some products are in short supply, and he is waiting on deliveries.
What I plan on doing is make my own John Innes (1,2 or3) hence me needing peat!
I have purchased 5 kg of Ji Potting base fertiliser and I already have lime.
As all the mixes start with 7 parts loam to 3 parts peat my plan is to use my old compost as loam I have around 300 litres of it.
This morning I prepared around half of it by adding perlite to open it up to give better drainage, it is rather gritty, so I didn't add any coarse sand as per the Ji recipe.
Then I checked the pH and added lime to fetch it all up to a Ph of 6.5 to 7. (see pic 2)
Once I add the peat to make mainly Ji N° 2 or 3 I will check the Ph again and adjust it if required!
OK it is a bit late for this season but as I have a few perennial on the go which I will pot up into Ji
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I've had a few aubergine plants collapse this week as the compost got water-logged... managed to rescue them but it wasn't a good experience... I may have to move to the Dordogne when I retire after all.....
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Cold winters there and far too many Brits!
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Maybe... but I've seen aubergines growing happily there in the Summer!
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They'd grow here too but I don't like them. Used to eat a lot but I've gone off the texture.
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I've had a few aubergine plants collapse this week as the compost got water-logged... managed to rescue them but it wasn't a good experience... I may have to move to the Dordogne when I retire after all.....
You might find a few bags of sharp sand would be generally more tolerable!
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TEE Gee ,
I think what you are suffering is a trace of aminopyralid/clomoprid contamination. This may be because your compost is blended with green waste compost (to reduce /substitute the peat content) .Somebody has put their treated lawn mowings into the green waste skip at a tip somewhere, or it may be that the blend contains straw from cereal or bean production in agriculture. If you care to examine the Charles Dowding website,
https://charlesdowding.co.uk/
he has a growing list of problems reported. Suggest that you get the supplier to give you their test results of a sample. also, do you have the bag, which should have the batch reference. Which brand is it? A free supply would be equitable
It may be worth taking cuttings as side shoots appear, grow them on in your best soil and feed them Tomorite or similar.For comparison /crop.
Further to this matter, Charles Dowding has put a further advice in his July topic. I hope he will not mind if I quote it here directly.
"Pyralid weedkillers
This horrible problem does not go away – in fact it’s getting far worse and thousands are suffering, many without knowing. See my videos to check symptoms, the inward curling and stunted new leaves.
It looks like there is a little (all you need for problems) in composts as diverse as J Arthur Bower, Earthcycle peat free, and Pro Grow. I receive many photos from worried gardeners and none of them in my experience are “nutrient imbalances” or “caused by no dig”, which is what the sellers like to claim. Or that the compost is “too rich”. Sigh!
Don’t be fobbed off by such excuses and report your problems to the CRD at email address below.
Sources of this powerful poison include Grazon weedkiller, and many products for LAWNS! Hence the problem with green waste composts, which somebody needs to address soon, before we are unable to trust them.
Poisoned potato plant
Sent to me by a gardener, this potato is growing in J Arthur Bower compost
Bed of J Arthur Bower compost
Bed filled with JAB compost in spring, planted to potatoes and beans
Tomato in different bought composts
The gardener was not sure which compost caused this, she used two different ones, tomato plant has classic symptoms of pyralid poison
Press Release Text June 2020
Worrying damage to plants from herbicide contamination in compost: organic organisations take action.
In 2019 gardeners noticed significant damage to some of their plants – particularly annual vegetables which showed weak and stunted growth. It is thought the problem came from weedkiller residues remaining in compost and manure. There were multiple reports circulating on social media, and professional gardener and well-known proponent of ‘No Dig’, Charles Dowding, raised awareness in the Daily Telegraph in July 2019, which resulted in a six-fold increase in gardeners reporting similar damage.
One probable culprit was identified as the chemical ‘aminopyralid’, which is used by farmers and local councils as a weed killer for grasslands. When grass cuttings and weeds which have been treated with this particular chemical are incorporated into manure or compost, or fed to animals whose manure is then used, the residue remains, and can contaminate the mix with devastating effect.
James Campbell, Chief Executive of Garden Organic says:
“This poisoning has been of huge concern to growers and gardeners. Particularly as many may not have connected the distressing plant damage to the organic compost or manure in which they grow.”
Garden Organic, the Soil Association, and the Organic Growers Alliance, have worked collaboratively to investigate the aminopyralid contamination. They met with Corteva, the agricultural chemical manufacturer and distributor, who make the deadly herbicide.
Corteva themselves are investigating the issue. But their knowledge of actual incidents is likely to be incomplete as not many growers know of Corteva’s existence, nor how to contact them. So now organic growers want an independent assessor involved.
“We encourage growers who think they may have been affected to contact the government’s Chemical Regulations Division,” says Peter Richardson, Chair of the Organic Growers Alliance. “As part of the Health and Safety Executive, CRD monitor contamination incidents – which still occur despite their clear warnings to users on how to use aminopyralids,” (see below in Notes for Editors.) We think it is simpler and more effective if growers send an email to both CRD and Corteva.”
“We are asking CRD to work with Corteva to find a lasting solution to this issue and address any future impact on growers using manure, or green waste/municipal compost,” says Gareth Morgan, Head of Farming and Land Use Policy at the Soil Association. “We encourage all growers who think they may have been affected to make use of the impartial process to sort out this issue once and for all.”
If you think your plants have been poisoned, emails should be sent to CRDEnforcement@hse.gov.uk and UKHotline@corteva.com, headed “Aminopyralid contamination”.
Notes for Editors
In order to prevent contamination from aminopyralids, the CRD has the following guidelines for all users (farmers and amenity grassland managers) of weedkillers which contain them:
Do not use any plant material treated with
Sale!
2020 Calendar X 5 all signed
£66.00 £20.47
for composting or mulching.
Do not use manure for composting from animals fed on crops treated with
Sale!
2020 Calendar X 5 all signed
£66.00 £20.47
.
20 thoughts on “July 2020 summer unfolds with more sowings, interplanting, weeds to hoe or pull, seeds to save, potato harvests and beware pyralids”
"Taken from https://charlesdowding.co.uk/july-2020-summer-unfolds-with-more-sowings-interplanting-weeds-to-hoe-or-pull-seeds-to-save-potato-harvests-and-beware-pyralids/"
Please take the time to complain as above if you think you may have been affected. We can only complain until some action is forced by Defra