Topic: Potatoes

[Garden Manager]

Some of you may recall my telling you about my experiences with late/autumn potatoes, planted following on from the maincrop. Unfortunately variety unknown.

Here is an update

The autumn potato crop has not been a sucess.  Not through lack of quantity, more down to eatablity.  I was hoping they would be as good as our early and maincrop potatoes (Foremost and Sante respectively), and we would be lucky to have some left by Christmas (this was the aim to have our own pots for Christmas lunch).  

Unfortunately they have proved to be very firm and only any good for boiled, not any good as mash or roasted.  

As a result supplies have lasted longer than expected.  as we have had to buy in extea potatoes for mash and roast.

As of yesterday I have only lifted barely half the crop, and then only because I thought it ought to come in to be stored before it is frosted or rots.   The other half remains in the ground.

At this rate there will still be some left by the time I come to plant next years crop!!! (Whether any of them will be any good to eat by then is another matter).

As i said before I dont think I will be growing them again!!

[philcooper]

The varieties offered for autumn crops are usually second earlies such as Charlotte.

They are meant to provide "new" (waxy) potatoes around Christmas time for boiling - so you have succeeded.

Mash and roast should be from more mealy potatoes grown as second earlies or, from now on maincrop

Phil

[Garden Manager]

Thanks phil, Thats interesting (and encouraging.)

As I said, cant remember the variety used for autumn crop, but it could well be Charlotte by your description.
Got the seed pots from Marshalls, if that sheds any light on the subject.

Trouble is with 'autumn' croppers, the fact that the seed is specially treated to crop at that time of year, means that the range of varieties is more restricted than for 'normal' cropping.  This particular variety (be it Charlotte or not) as i remember it was the only variety offered in this form.

I must remember to look around at the right time to see if any other varieties are available for autumn cropping,  because at least it means home grown potatoes for a longerperiod than normal.  If I could get a 'better' variety it would be worth trying again.

PS it has just occured to me. Charlotte can be sold as a salad potato can it not? We grew a few so called salad potatoes in a pot last year, i have a feeling they might have been 'Charlotte'.

Any further advice would be appreciated

[tim]

- sorry to repeat myself, but there are plenty of second croppers to choose from.

We last used Franceline (red), Carlingford and Maris Peer.
Or you could have Nicola, Monet or - as you say - Charlotte. = Tim

[The gardener]

I have found that by selecting a few of my second earlies (any variety) in mid August and chitting them in a light cool place, but not full sun for a month to six weeks seems to do the trick.

It seems to remove the situation of potatoes being bred for a particular cropping time.

I have tried direct plantings, i.e. no chitting and didn't get as good results.

Perhaps its in the chitting that does the trick ???

[Steve__C]

I tried second croppers in a previous year but without great success. Unfortunately the conditions were too wet and the slugs had an early Christmas dinner.
Has anybody tried growing second croppers in tubs/pots?
If so, were they successful?

[john_miller]

 Hopefully to clear up the confusion here about earlies, maincrop and timimg. Most potatoes will naturally initiate tubers in response to decreasing daylength- tubers are perennating organs so these herbaceous perennials are simply storing food for next years growth. However some potatoes were discovered (by the indigenous peoples of South America, long before Europeans arrived) that produced tubers independent of daylength (botanically, they are daylength neutral). These genetic oddballs were the parents of the modern selections generally referred to as first or second earlies. These plants tend to produce tubers when the plants are smaller so the yield is less than maincrop. With this in mind any 'early' potato is adaptable to autumn forcing. They are not especially bred for this but are now available as a result of state of the art storage techniques.
 For Richard:- Re, your potato question in the other post. Because earlies produce tubers when they get to a certain size, the earlier you plant the tuber the earlier you will get a crop. Of course don't plant them now in frozen ground expecting to get a crop! As soon as conditions are compliant with good husbandry, plant them. Maincrop potatoes will respond to early planting too but for another reason. Because they initiate tubers in response to decreasing daylight the yield will be increased with increased leaf area- in other words the bigger the plant when initiation is triggered the bigger will be the yield (all other things being equal).
 Sometime ago Hugh (where is he?) posted a reply saying that the critical time for this trigger is the summer solstice (roughly 16 hours of daylight). This is not accurate for everywhere. Naturally, in the high Andes where potatoes come from, the trigger is actually around the autumnal equinox(12 hours of daylight). The critical time varies with, among other things, latitude, elevation and pollution but for the UK is probably sometime in late July. If you can keep the plants growing well  for at least this long your yield wiil be increased. Once that is achieved you then have to keep the plants healthy to maximise tuber growth!
 Apologies about the essay.

[gavin]

Thanks again, John - you have a real gift for taking a big subject and condensing it, without losing key bits of information, so don't apologise!

There were just a couple of snippets in there new to me - but JUST the snippets I needed to feel I understand earlies and maincrop.

All best - Gavin

[The gardener]

Excellent article John..............looks like I will have to get a bigger chip pan, after taking all that in.. ;D

[Garden Manager]

Thanks to john. Very informative.

Just to clarify:

Earlies produce tubers when they reach a certain size, so the earlier the planting the earlier the crop. Yes?

Maincrop potatoes produce tubers once the day lengths shorten, so the earlier the planting the longer the growing period, so the LARGER the crop.

Perhaps then it still pays  to plant earlies first before the maincrop, thus to extend the season.

Just another thought; is there any way to produce 'do it yourself' seed potatoes for an autumn crop. I was thinking that if you chose a variety you liked you could then keep some seed back for a later planting. This being preferable to a restricted variety choice from the seed producers.  Perhaps by keeping the seed potatoes cold and dark, they might stay dormant longer?

[Steve__C]

Picking up on Richard's point "is there any way to produce 'do it yourself' seed potatoes for an autumn crop".

Would I be correct in assuming a seed potatoe is only a potatoe of a particular size, correctly stored from the previous season, checked for disease, and sent to the wholesaler at the correct time.

If the above is correct, rather than keeping the spring seed potatoes for an extra 5 months, surely if you select a second early potatoe from the current seasons crop in June/July, and then bring it out of dormancy in early August and chit-it. Could it be ready to plant late August ready for digging at Christmas.
If so, the only question then is how do you bring a current seasons seed out of dormancy early and thereby get it ready for chitting? Does the seed need to be cooled then exposed to warmth and light?

[The gardener]

Potato seed and seed potatoes are two entirely different things.

Perhaps I should leave the explanation to John, he seems to have a better way with words and explanations than I do ;)

I once grew a variety from 'seed' took me four or five years as I recall to get any that were sizable enough for the pot.


Even then they were no better than the parent so I reverted back to the parent.

[philcooper]

On "do it yourself" second croppers, the Which growing your own veg suggests:
"Keep some of your earlies from the Spring planting start chitting them then, watch out for aphids (covering with fleece to keep them off). In early June pot each (by now wizen but still viable) tuber in a 15cm pot and keep well watered in a sheltered spot outside. The tubers, though shrivelled, will burst into growth. From late June onwards, when you have space in containers or on the veg plot, dig a hole big enough to take the plant, burying the base of the shoots too. The tubers should be ready in Oct or Nov and can be left in situ for use at Christmas."
I presume the bit of garden needs to be well sheltered.

[gavin]

<edit>Thanks Phil - much better advice.  I was a bit too slow typing, and crossed with yours</edit>

Hi all - on DiY seed potatoes, the point of buying fresh seed potatoes is the level of quality and disease control.  Certified seed has to meet VERY high standards.

The problem with using your own crop of potatoes for seed is that most allotment sites are, I suspect, wonderful reservoirs for potato pathogens.  Virtual nature reserves, working specifically to preserve potato disease!  

Think of the individuals around you growing potatoes without anything like the care needed.  And then all those who did likewise in the last ten years.  Whatever care you yourself take, you are growing in an environment set by the lowest common standard.

Using your own crop as seed (from year to year) leads to less yield and more disease (for yourself and those around you).  

Using your crop as seed within one single year?  Don't know - but I'd be very hesitant.  I think I'd rather keep back some of my certified seed, somewhere very cool and dark (a fridge? - too cold, I suspect), and use that as seed.

All best - Gavin

[philcooper]

Gavin is spot on.
Certified seed is the only way to go for commercially available varieties (around 150 are relatively easy to find)) especially with the Ring Rot problem now around.

[Garden Manager]

Thanks to all.

Gavin, where did you get the idea I wanted to use my own crop as seed potatoes?  I was talking about getting more 'certified' seed pots in spring than i need  for the first crop (earlies) and save some of THOSE for a later planting. Could these be kept dormant for longer some way?

Thanks again

[gavin]

Ye daft p....k, Richard!   :)

I didn't get that idea from you, but from Steve_c who followed your posting!

All best - Gavin

[Steve__C]

Richard,
If you pick up Phil Coopers note of 5.50 pm 4th Jan he explains that it is possible with very little extra effort other than keeping the aphids at bay to keep back some of the spring seed potatoes.

And if it doesn't work... then we will be 'sending the boys round' to sleepy Hampshire next December.