Topic: Seed Saving Circle 2023

[galina]

I understood 'Dou Miao' to mean pea suitable for pea shoots, rather than a distinct variety name.  This applies whether it is the maple seeded variety in the first url I sent or not.  As I said, Mrs Lei aka Mrs Lee is also 'meant' to be for pea shoots, but we love the sweet long pods and its beautiful pale pink flowers, having found out only much later to try its shoots too.  :) 

From what I understand, in Singapore a Dou Miau pea is not a single variety, but whatever somebody considers to be a good variety for pea shoots.  There may be a great many different pea shoot varieties.  Dou Miau simply being the label on a box of pea shoots on the market.   

Why not include, if you wish, with appropriate labelling.  A short hypertendril marrowfat pea for pea shoots or similar. 

You will know your seed source and maybe ask further questions there of actual origin, OS.  Is it from Singapore?  Or might you get similar features from a health food store packet of dry peas bought in Britain, that your donor grew and liked for Dou Miau pea shoots, Singapore style.  Either way, if it is a good variety, it is good for the circle. 

It is a bit like the Lancashire Lad purple pea from HSL we were growing for many years, that turned out to be wrongly named, the real LL being green podded.  And nobody knows the name of the purple one.  Should we have dropped this purple variety as a consequence?  No, of course not.  I once added the purple 'not' LL with the annotation that it isn't the real deal, but nevertheless a great pea with really great productivity.    It isn't the fault of the pea that we don't know its actual variety name.   And so it is here.   

[JanG]

Thanks again for the further very helpful clarification. I don't think it's a marrowfat pea. As I said, it looks probably more like a sweet variety as it has white flowers and wrinkled seeds. But yes, I will keep it in the Circle but add notes in the way you suggest.

My donor is quite unreliable over naming and not very forthcoming with information but he does have a wide range of varieties and his seeds are always interesting if often perplexing. This is why I included the seed with reservations. I thought it was interesting enough to offer but I wasn't sure of the accuracy of its naming. I might try asking for further information about its provenance but I'm not very hopeful! However, on the grounds that Dou Miao indicates suitability for pea shoots, I'll keep the name for now but with lots of explanations.

[juliev]

Hello everyone,
here are the seeds I have available for the circle:

aubergine Czech early, seeds from https://www.incredibleseedlibrary.com/product-page/aubergine-czech-early
grown in polytunnel

beans (dwarf)
bobis d'albenga, I've been saving seeds for years. very tasty pods, stringless, can be a bit enthousiastic when growing in rich soil but I've never used supports for them
red swan, seeds from https://www.organiccatalogue.com/seeds/vegetable-seeds/bean-seeds/bean-red-swan_MH8009
such a pretty bean! mainly grown for seed this year so can't comment on taste.
flageolet flagrano, seeds from https://mr-fothergills.co.uk/products/dwarf-bean-flagrano-flageolet-seeds
trying a second variety of flageolet, performed really well compared to the usual chevrier.
mogettes, seeds from French supermarket "edible" dry beans
not sure what the commercial variety is, maybe mogex. It is similar to cannellini bean (don't tell my dad I said this...) As it is protected, it shouldn't be called mogette unless it is grown in Vendée, but nevermind. I got an earlier and better yield than cannellini.
annellino di trento, seeds from https://www.happygreenshop.com/veg-herb-seeds/vegetable-seeds/dwarf-italian-bean-40-seeds-anellino-di-trento
I was hoping for a similar bean to bobis d'albenga, unfortunately they are smaller and  fill up quicker, a bit like major cook. I'll be growing them with the drying beans and will use them like borlotti.

climbing beans
borlotti, I've been saving seeds for years.
madeira maroon seeds fromhttps://www.beansandherbs.co.uk/product/madeira-maroon/
tarbais seeds from https://www.beansandherbs.co.uk/product/tarbais/
like the mogette, it is protected so technically shouldn't be called tarbais... all that matters is that it produces well and tastes amazing in stews.
italian snap seeds from https://www.beansandherbs.co.uk/product/italian-snap/
a pretty mottled bean turning pink/purple as it ages. big beans inside. a bit of a mystery though, as apart from the beansandherbs listing, I can't find anything similar under that name...

winter squash
mantovana C Maxima, a few seeds given by a friend from a friend who grows them in Italy. handpollinated
After doing some research, it seems different squashes are called "mantovana". this one looks like delica mantovana. It is a small dark green heirloom, like a buttercup/black forest. sweet dry flesh. I had one fruit so not many seeds to share but I only have one original seed left so would feel better sharing them this year just in case...
 

summer squash ? I need to do a germination test on those as they seem flatter than usual, although they are bigger than usual...
tromboncino/ trombetta d'Albenga C Moschata, from saved seeds. handpollinated
ronde de Nice C pepo, from saved seeds. hand pollinated

garlic chives

lettuce mix
mix of https://www.premierseedsdirect.com/product/lettuce-gourmet-looseleaf-cutting-mix/ saved seeds and https://vitalseeds.co.uk/product/lettuce-wild-garden-mix/
I still have the original packet of seed for the wild garden mix so will grow them separately next year to save seeds (following the conversation about Frank and Karen Norton's retirement).

calendula descendants of snow princess. pretty pale lemon flowers, I save from the best plants every year. 

[juliev]

a little bit about me and my garden...
I grow in my back garden and more recently on an allotment plot, on the Essex/Suffolk border.
I like to grow a wide range of varieties to find out the ones which can cope without too much fuss.
I grow because I like to cook and I cook because I like to eat! (probably thanks to my French-Italian roots...)
Last year, after realising I needed yet another seed box (and discovering landrace gardening and breeding my own varieties), it was clear I needed to find a way to share my surplus seeds, and quick! I started small seed libraries that I distributed to local schools, businesses, outside my house etc. At the moment, they are packets of mixed varieties but I'd like to replace them with locally adapted mixes. I really enjoy working with the schools and sharing heirloom beans and multicoloured popcorn (the look on their faces!) and hope to help them develop some seed saving habits too.

I am so grateful for being part of this year's circle and can't wait to grow out all those wonderful varieties.

[galina]

Thank you for your great contribution Juliev.  So much to look forward to.

For the bean Italian Snap, I may be able to provide a bit of extra info.  It is preserved by Arche Noah, the Austrian Heritage Seed Library equivalent.  For some reason it also circulates under the name of Italian Snape and there are a few more seed sources under this name. 

The variety description catalogue of Arche Noah says this:  Wurde 1909 aus Italien in die USA gebracht. Seit 1995 von SSE.  Was taken to USA from Italy in 1909 and since 1995 safeguarded by Seed Savers Exchange, the USA version of the British Heritage Seed Library.  From there it went to Arche Noah.  https://sortenhandbuch.arche-noah.at/suche/nach?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=Italian+snap

[JanG]

Thanks from me too, juliev, for a great range of contributions and for the notes you include which are very helpful. I’m especially interested in some of your dwarf beans. The Flagrano sounds delicious. Do you grow it for fresh shelling or for drying? I’m beginning to really like bean varieties which give good fresh shelled beans. Good to have your researches too on Italian Snap, Galina. I grew the variety many years ago and like you, juliev, was rather frustrated by the lack of information I could find.
Interesting that you found that Vital Seeds also sell the Mortons’ Wild Garden lettuce mix. Nice that you’re able to offer another continuation of their selecting and breeding efforts. The calendula sounds very pretty.

Thank you also for filling in with some insights into you and your growing. Your work with seed libraries sounds great and clearly you produce a lot of seed! With schools, for example, are your seed libraries gifts which you go in and talk about, or is the idea that they ‘borrow’ the seeds and aim to return in kind? Either way, it sounds an amazing way of encouraging growing and seed saving.

Really good to have you join the Circle.

[ruud]

    Grandma`s viney`s-                                                  Family heirloom from Grayson County, Kentucky.

Large fruit weighing 200 to 400 grams, beefsteak type, flattened and ribbed at the top, the shoulders tend to curve for large sizes.

Magnificent multicolored dress, a shades of orange-red and yellow pink.

Beef flesh marbled with yellow and pink, containing very few seeds.

Taste completely devoid of acidity, sweet and fruity, excellent.

Plant with great development, moderately vigorous, large stem, regular foliage, indeterminate growth.

Good, regular and long production, better in the second half of the season.

Good natural disease resistance.

Bag of at least 12 seeds - Harvest 2021. limited quantity.

TOMATO, BLUE BEAUTY
Rating:
88% of100 73  Reviews Add Your Review
80 days. This recent Brad Gates introduction was selected from a cross between ‘Beauty King’ and a blue tomato. Fruit is modest beefsteak-type slicer, weighing up to 8 ounces, and the flavor is as good as its outstanding antioxidant content! Gorgeous, deep blue-black shoulders make this unique among slicing types. Excellent potential for market, as the fruit holds well on the vine. Sunburn and crack resistance are a welcome bonus.

Giant Oxheart Tomato
#00300Questions? Call 1-800-345-5977
90 Days
This well-named giant produces large, pink, 12 oz. to 2 lb., firm, meaty, heart shaped fruits with thick walls, few seeds and a mild flavor. The vigorous vine
s produce high yields of fruits that mature late but are well worth the wait!
Indeterminate.


balikesin kivircik
red curly village tomato seeds originating from Balıkesir

It is a very productive variety. More than 7 kg of yield can be obtained from one seedling. I recommend you to plant this variety, which is one of the delicious village tomato types, in your garden. It takes approximately 130 days from seed to harvest. It is more productive and fruit size is better in loamy soil. It likes loamy permeable soil. It is one of the tomato species. If you take good care of it, you will be very satisfied. Since it is a mature tomato, leave the seedling spacing wider when planting.

[ruud]

beans

runner bean golden sunshine
This is the showiest runner bean we've found! The chartreuse foliage appears to glow in the sunlight and provides a contrast to the loads of scarlet red flowers that beckon hummingbirds. The climbing plants produce a bumper crop of tender, flattened, 5-6 in. green pods that are excellent for eating fresh, canning and freezing. Golden Sunshine Runner Bean grows 5-6 ft. tall and requires some type of support, such as a fence or trellis. It's sure to add color and interest to the flowerbed, garden or edible landscape. 85 DAYS.

turkey craw
Turkey Craw Pole Snap Bean, 14 g

HeirloomEspecially well-suited to the Southeast
Product Image for Turkey Craw Pole Snap Bean
$3.75


67 days. [Heirloom from VA, NC, and TN. According to folklore, a hunter shot a turkey and removed a bean from its craw; the bean was later planted and saved, hence the name Turkey Craw.] Often used as a cornfield bean. Excellent fresh flavor. Good canned. Similar to other beans for freezing and drying quality (“leather britches on a shuck”). Pods grow 3½-4 in. long and cling to the vines. Seeds are buff, frosted with brown on one end. Pkt (~52 seeds)

vignerone/weinlanderin

'Weinländerin La Vigneronne' Beans are a classic of Swiss garden culture. This little known variety has been cultivated and preserved by the country women of Switzerland. Known as 'Wine country beans' this vigorous, old variety of pole bean has distinctive pods that are marbled and speckled with purple, as if stained by drops of wine.
The plants are hardy and can cope with both cooler weather and longer periods of drought while still producing excellent yields. This stringless pole bean can be used both as beans pods and as grain beans, the pod has a beautiful colour, and the kidney-shaped kernels are also beautifully mottled.

A vigorous mid to late season variety, the plants grow quickly giving rise to dark pink flowers, quickly followed by an abundance of stringless, fleshy purple-marbled pods that grow up to 25cm (10in) long and are round in cross-section.
Sow indoors from mid April for transplanting later on, or direct sow outdoors from late May to July. The plants also stand out due to their very high yield that can be harvested from mid-July through to the end of October. Harvest continually, at least once or twice a week, when they reach 12 to 15cm (5 to 6in) in length.
The pods are stringless and after cooking, they retain their bite very easily. Keep picking for harvests that last all summer. They are also suitable for freezing and drying.

'Weinländerin La Vigneronne' can be grown against a trellis, up netting or up tall canes set 100cm (3ft) apart. They can be interplanted with peas or runner beans. Because they use vertical space, they free up the horizontal rows in the vegetable garden for other varieties while bearing abundant harvests and they are easier than bush beans to harvest.
Many gardeners prefer pole beans for their distinctive 'beany' flavour. Eaten raw they make a tasty and crunchy addition to summer salads, but their versatility doesn't end there as they are perfect for freezing - and any left at the end of the season can be dried and the beans used as haricot beans.

ice bean crystal wax

Phaseolus Vulgaris ( Crystal White Wax Bean )
‘Crystal White Wax’, also known as the ‘Ice’ bean, is an heirloom variety which is best staked to keep the beans off the ground until they are mature, 45 to 60 days after sowing. The pods are 3 to 3 1/2 inches long, and must be checked daily for ripeness, for they do not keep well on the vine. As a shelly bean it has a delicious nutty flavor, but the dry bean is good as well, and can be cooked like barley. This is a bush bean that nonetheless has runners emerging, up to 3 feet long. Best grown forced, in a greenhouse. This group of beans is a favorite for the home garden and can be grown just about anywhere because they have a relatively short growing season. They can be planted from seed as soon as the soil is warm (day temperatures are around 60 degrees Farenheit), in full sun and loose, well drained soil. Bush type beans are very easy to grow and manage, reaching a height of only 2 feet tall. To control harvest, bush beans can be planted every two weeks. To decide how many crops you can plant, divide your growing season by the maturation period of the variety you are planting. When preparing soil, be sure not to mix in too much nitrogen (5-10-10 is best) or you will get all plant and no beans. 1 pound per 100 square feet is plenty. There is no need to soak beans prior to planting and no need to heavily water right after planting. If coat is cracked too early, germination may be poor. Beans should be planted about 1 inch deep and two inches apart, with rows at least 2 feet apart. Pole type beans should be planted at least 4 inches apart, 6 inches being better, and have rows 3 feet apart. Pole beans will require some type of trellising system, with the tee pee system working quite well. It is alright if beans are a little crowded, as they lend each other support, however, thinning to 4 inches is best.

large white runner
(Phaseolus coccineus) Large white runner bean. Vigorous climber. White seeds have fantastic flavour and texture both fresh and dried. Keeps on producing. 15 seeds. Heirloom from Denman Island, BC

controne

[JanG]

Thank you very much, Ruud, for making the effort to contribute detailed notes on your tomatoes and beans.

If you are able to also say where you yourself originally got your seeds from - a particular seed company, a market, a swap etc - that would be really helpful and interesting especially for varieties that are most unusual, eg Turkish, Ukrainian etc.
It’s likely that you have access to seeds that UK residents can’t access or don’t know about. So it’s great to have your input and some background. 🙏

[JanG]

Carrying on the Dou Miao saga, my donor has responded with the interesting information that he had the seeds from an Italian friend, Alessio Gennari,  who travels to Asia and writes on Facebook as Terre di San Secondo. His friend writes about the variety here:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3060671413984484&id=1059957067389272

[ruud]

beans: turkey craw source bohnen-atlas
           vignerone/weinlanderin source bohnen-atlas
           golden sunshine source bohnen-atlas
            large white runner swap
           controne  source bohnen-atlas
           ice bean crystal wax  source guy dirix webside Belle Epoque meisse.


tomatoes: balikesin kivircik brought from turkey
                seftali means peach in turkish brought from turkey
                grandma`s viney`s swap
                blue beauty   source swap
                uriasu de dolj from my romanian friend Gheorghe Papurica Gradina who has a webside called Bi-Schon
                mari de salaj from the same source
                appetytnyi source swap

[JanG]

Thanks again, Ruud. That’s really helpful. And one more question …..! Sorry to twist your arm.

Are your peppers brought from Turkey too? And which might be sweet and which chilli?

[garrett]

I've posted mine today. I'll check through my photographs and do some posts describing each variety, hopefully I'll get that done by the weekend.

[JanG]

That’s great, Garrett. I’m away till Saturday but hope to confirm safe arrival on return.

[ruud]

 
mozart
This pepper, popularly known as village pepper, is consumed fresh, pickled and dried. Fleshy fruits are dark green in color. The average fruit length is around 10-13 cm.

 

 

Seed Planting

 

-Sowing Time for Outdoor; Spring Summer.

-You can plant indoors in four seasons.

-Seeds should not be buried too deep in the soil, they should be planted about 1 cm below.

-Seed germination time is 12-18 days.

-You need to throw 2-3 seeds into the seed holes you opened.

-Maturation Period is 80-90 days.

-The soil temperature suitable for seed germination is 18-30 degrees.

-The soil in which you germinate should be slightly moist, not too watery.

-You need to germinate in places that receive light.

-Before planting the seeds, keep them in room temperature water or a damp cloth for 2-3 hours. In this way, the seeds that absorb water will germinate more easily.

tepecik yakan

https://zenitttohum.com.tr/tohum/10/tepecik-cin-biber

menderes

PEPPER - MENDERES (BITTER)
It is a hot pepper variety with dark green fruits, suitable for fresh and pickled consumption. The stem side of the fruits is 20-22 cm, slightly bellows. It is thin and pointed in length. It is an early pepper variety that is resistant to tobacco mosaic virus and can reach the first harvest in 45-50 days from planting to the first harvest, with a total harvest time of 140 days. The yield of the variety per decare is around 2.5 tons.
 
carliston
Carliston is originally from Turkey and is very popular there. The peppers are mildly hot and are delicious in salads. They change color from lime green to red during ripening and are usually harvested in the unripe phase. The peppers grow to about 20 cm long and about 4 cm wide.

demre

https://www.tohumevi.com.tr/urun/demre-tatli-biber-tohumu-geleneksel

[garrett]

Melbourne's Mini (also known as Melbourne's Miniature): "A reliable and versatile French bean with creamy white flowers and prolific crops of short tender green beans. If pods are left to mature, the small white seeds are excellent used fresh or dried in soups and casseroles. Allotment holder Syd Melbourne grew and saved this variety for over 30 years before donating it to the Welsh community group Dyfi Valley Seed Savers in 2010 – it has been popular with mid Wales gardeners ever since".

Seed from the Wales Seed Hub. I enjoyed this bean as the pods retained a pleasant crunch even after cooking.

[garrett]

Tresnjevac: "Round seed, most unusual colours grey striped with purple. Quite late maturing but lots of slightly striped pods. Pod stage but usually grown for shelling". Generally considered to originate from Croatia or Serbia.

Seed from a seed swap, originally from Beans & Herbs. This is a beautiful bean with grey speckles like a stone, dries very cleanly.

[garrett]

Selma Zebra: "JC Metze developed this bean from a family bean in the 40-50s and sold the patent to Parks seed which listed the bean in the 70s". The bean was since delisted and lost for decades until some seed was donated to the  Seed Savers Exchange.

Seed from Thompson & Morgan. This is a delicious bean pod. I've read mixed reviews where people say that they need to be picked very young otherwise they are tough, but that was not my experience. I've eaten them when bumpy with beans inside and they have still been tender, full of beany flavour and with a great texture to chomp into.

[garrett]

Jimmy Nardello sweet pepper: "This true Italian heirloom has been grown by the Nardello family since the 19th century.

The Nardellos took the pepper seeds with them to the USA in 1887, and when Jimmy Nardello passed away in 1983 some were donated to the Seed Savers Exchange.

Prolifically produces slender, twisted fruits, slightly fatter than chillies, that become very juicy and with a sweet, mild-peppery flavour when red."

Seed from Plant World Seeds. Great for growing outside and ripens much sooner than typical bell/bulls horn peppers.

[garrett]

Basque Pepper: "The “Espelette” chili pepper (Piment d'Espelette in French, Ezpeletako biperra in Basque) is a culinary icon of Basque Country with a production area limited to 10 villages nestled in the foothills of the Pyrenees Mountains. The pepper is the first, and currently the only spice in France to carry the European Union’s “PDO” (protected designation of origin) label which both protects its name and regulates its process of production". Peppers not grown in this area are given the common name of Basque Pepper.

Seeds from Real Seeds. This is a very fruity, sweet hot pepper, very low on the scoville scale at just 4,000. Prolific and early, I was picking ripe peppers by late July.