Topic: Seed Saving Circle 2022

[galina]

Or just being lucky with the weather.  These were all the first female-male matches on each of the plants.  Can't say I have been that lucky in the past.  Also had to remember to go back and wash hands between varieties as they are all cucurbita pepo!

I am really not doing anything different, but in Rushden it was much more difficult due to the late starts on clay soil and the much colder summer weather.  I even had to resort to growing c pepo in the greenhouse, if outdoor isolating and handpollinating did not work a couple of years in a row.  Also in Rushden I often had the problem that handpollinated cucurbita were practically seedless.  A big squash that stored well to boot, but on cutting it open, there were none or very few seeds. 

Having said that, I have not managed to handpollinate another variety I really wanted to here either, something always came up.  Then I noticed too late that the one fruit, I had managed to isolate and handpollinate was not true to type.  I guess the occasional mistake can happen.  So HSL courgette Aubergine Blanche may be a variety of the past for me, but, on the other hand, just how many white courgettes does one person need, before it starts becoming a bit obsessive :)

[JanG]

Thanks for that explanation. It helps me to feel a little less incompetent!

My other regretted area of little success is with peppers. Almost every time I bag a pepper flower it fails to set. I’ve tried Jayb’s glue method too but again the flowers have simply fallen off in almost all cases. More shaking or vibrating needed I imagine. A busy time of year though!

This season I’ve saved seed from a few pepper varieties which have grown alongside others with no attempt to isolate. I shall try a selection from my saved seed next season and see how much cross pollination has occurred. Quite a lot I suspect.

[galina]

The crossing rate is said to be 40% with peppers.  Which I am sure would be a lot less if one variety was grown at the far end of a greenhouse, the other elsewhere in the garden, also shielded by taller plants.  The biggest issue with peppers is heat crossing into mild peppers from chilis.  There are also different species, which helps, although some can still cross. 

One way of doing it, is to cloche the whole plant, as peppers self pollinate as well as get pollinated by insects.  The lady who advised this grows in large pots and had bent wire hoop supports over the plants with net curtain material over the hoops and tied around the rim of the pot, watered from underneath. 

Another way is to start early, so they flower before being planted out.  This first flower, with no other flowers around yet, will be self pollinating and pure.  There is usually one variety that flowers first and sets fruit before the others.  Just a matter of marking the fruit for seeds.  Or starting one much earlier than the others deliberately.  Isolation by timing, rather than by barriers. 

[galina]

Just too late for last year's seed circle were the Striped Custard Marrows.  These were grown in 2021, seeds harvested in 2022.  Just found the seeds from 2 hand pollinated plants which I can mix and add to our circle seeds.  The photos show  - best eating stage, a small one and a very mature specimen very pretty for decoration at this stage.  They are at their best for eating, when faint stripes develop.  My original source was Thomas Etty. 

[JanG]

Thanks Galina for the extra seeds proposed, a lovely addition. Personally I’ve become acquainted with the charms and usefulness of pattypans only in the last couple of years - and this one looks wonderful.

Thanks too for the statistics and tips on pepper pollination. Very useful and noted. Looking forward to having another go next year!

[galina]

Just been through the thread to see what I had promised earlier in the year to get to my offered list. 

Forgot to add a photo of cucumber Beit Alpha.  This is a return, the original seed came from Jayb in 2014.  This was the only cucumber grown this year, grown in the greenhouse, but not handpollinated.  Photo shows 2 fruits harvested overmature and yellow for seed saving and one at the right stage for eating.  Prolific, early, larger than a gherkin but shorter than the cucumbers in shops.  This is what Jayb wrote originally:  Beit Alpha – Produces stocky and quite long fruit, skin is tender and they have a lovely taste. Fruits hold well on the vines and they gave a good crop although not as productive as an F1. I found they grew well in my poly-tunnel, I’m not sure how they would do outdoors. Seeds originally sourced from Baker Creek.   

Incidentally this was the same year that we were also given Sparrow's Thelma Sanders squash and there is a photo of it.  Also a photo of the Rosalie's Early tomatoes, which I am again adding to this year's circle.   
 
http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/a4a-seed-saver-group-2014/

[JanG]

I drew up a provisional list back on 2nd October. I know yours has grown since then, Galina, and of course might have changed. Looking forward to seeing the final riches!
Good to have the photo and further information for the Beit Alpha cucumber. It looks to have a good smooth skin too. I grew Marketmore for several years and although it’s reliable, tastes and crops well, the little gritty bits on the skin- which can be rubbed off - are less appealing.

[ruud]

I have put another veggie in the seed cirkle,white wonder a white cucumber or gherkin depends on the picking time.

[JanG]

That's great, Ruud. I've been meaning to grow gherkins for some time but not yet got there. This sounds a very interesting one.

There's some information online which suggests that it can be grown outdoors in UK. Have you tried it outdoors in your climate?

[galina]

This very mild October weather produced more harvest on those courgette plants that weren't killed by our ground frost a month ago.  Here a misshapen Bianco Lungo, then Striato d'Italia and on the right Long White Trailing.  What is quite striking, how much greener those white courgettes are than they were during summer. 

[JanG]

I have the same phenomenon on Alberello Genovese. Now that I’ve picked the one huge marrow-sized courgette from it, it’s producing small greenish and lightly striped fruit.

[garrett]

One last addition from me, I've included some Tiger climbing french beans. These have long flattish pods and can be eaten as young pods or left as a dry shelled bean.

[galina]

They look very nice Garrett, thank you.  Where are they from originally?  Do you have any more info for us please?

[garrett]

They were sourced from the HSL and they have this description:
This variety was grown in Cooma, South Australia during the mid-1940s by our donor's father, who was known for his prize-winning skills as a vegetable grower. This early, vigorous and easy-to-grow bean produces small mauve-pink flowers followed by stringless green pods that develop “tiger stripes” when mature. Tender and with great flavour when eaten fresh; the striped dried beans are both eye-catching and tasty.

[JanG]

That’s great, Garrett. And thank you for the information too. I’ll be putting all the info given onto a database to share with circle members. So it’s really good to have as much information as possible about source, history, performance, growth habits, appearance etc. Photos are very good to have too, for here and for the database.
So, a very welcome addition along with your tomatoes.

[galina]

Following on from the Ukrainian theme, I am adding Orange Icicle aka Sosulka Oranzhevaya to complement Ruud's Icicle tomato.  These were from the amazing parcel from Jeannine and Jayb. 

Also have been growing Ukrainian Purple, which is a repeat from A4A seed swap when we got these seeds from Greenlily.  As they are not the most blight resistant tomatoes, they are better in the greenhouse, the Icicles have much better blight resistance and are good both in and out. 

I harvested the very last outdoor Fruity Yellows yesterday and the last greenhouse ones in the photo here, which were actually from the greenhouse.  Fruity yellow can be yellow, orange or red.   Red is the rarest, mainly because I have been selecting for yellow.  I understand Tim Peters, the breeder, later changed the name from  Fruity Yellow to Fruity Mix, which seems more appropriate.  But the variable colour is the only thing 'wrong' with this tomato.  It is very rampant and probably best grown as a multistem indeterminate.  2 or 3 stems each with a 6ft plus support stick is a good way.   They were very early and the last ones, did get slight blight on fruit not vines, but literally grew out of it.   

Photos are Ukrainian Purple and Fruity Yellow.  Great flavour all of them. 

[JanG]

Great addition, Galina. Orange Icicle is from Ukraine too?

Ukrainian Purple is on my list to contribute but mine looks more purplish than yours so an interesting comparison. In fact I received seed this year of both Purple Ukrainian and Ukrainian Purple. The Purple Ukrainian had come originally from Real Seeds but I’m not sure of the original source of Ukrainian Purple. I received them from London Freedom Seed Bank. I grew both and couldn’t see or taste any difference between the two. Unfortunately I didn’t take photos but both looked very like the photo on the Real Seeds site. https://www.realseeds.co.uk/tomatoes_vines_big.html
Another tomato I’m contributing, Lotos, is also from Ukraine and also originally from Real Seeds. It’s an excellent yellowish orange tomato.

[galina]

As I haven't packaged my seeds yet, no need to double up on the Ukrainian Purple.  Let's go with yours.  Yes they do look a bit more purple than in the photo.  Are your Ukrainian Purple and Purple Ukrainian the same?

The first in the series of Icicles or Sosulkas was a chance find of the black one in a field of tomatoes by the farmer,  Mr Kulik who gave them to Denis Terentiev, who is credited with breeding the series.  There are black, pink, orange and there may be other colours too in the series.   I just love the shape, their good flavour and the moderate blight resistance making them outdoor suited.  https://blog.gardeningknowhow.com/tbt/growing-black-icicle-tomatoes/

[JanG]

I couldn't tell any difference between Purple Ukrainian and Ukrainian Purple. I suspect they are the same. I have the impression that Ukrainian Purple is the form of the name more commonly used and I have only come across Purple Ukrainian through Real Seeds. But I haven't conducted any kind of thorough search for naming information.

I happened to grow Black Icicle this year. I could add a small amount of seed to the Seed Circle to further the Icicle theme. I agree they are lovely. I'll perhaps try them outside next year. This year my outdoor tomatoes did better than my polytunnel ones. For some reason they got off to a bad start in the polytunnel and then the extreme heat perhaps didn't suit them either.

[galina]

Great, then we have pink from Ruud, black (which is brown really) from you and orange.  Together with Ukrainian Purple a nice tribute and reminder of what is happening there.  I also have Ukrainian beetroot from HSL growing in the garden right now, but they will need to be pulled up and wintered in the cellar for seeds next year.