Topic: No dig and perennial plants (not perennial weeds!)

[cropping]

Hello,

I am starting an allotment and found the website of Charles Dowding who apparently gets excellent results with the no-dig method. So I want to give it a try.

However, he talks mostly about annual plants, but I didn't find any information on perennial plants. For example, I want to grow some herbs (thyme, mint, etc.) How would that work with a no-dig method, especially in terms of controlling the weeds?

Thanks a lot!

[Obelixx]

I tried the CD method with just layering cardboard and then loads of compost and then planting into it.  Despite copious wetting of the cardboard I found plants like beetroot, chard and onions couldn't get their roots down enough to contend with dry periods and the perennial weeds like bindweed were not deterred.

That being so, I would thoroughly weed your intended perennial bed and add plenty of well-rooted compost and/or manure then plant and water in the usual way.   After watering in you can then cover the bed with cardboard, cutting or placing it to go around the stems and then water the cardboard well and mulch it with garden compost or bark chippings to hold down the cardboard and keep in moisture whilst excluding light from any seeds lurking in your soil and wanting to germinate.

[Tee Gee]

example, I want to grow some herbs (thyme, mint, etc.

Personally I would grow these in pots particularly mint because it is a bit of a thug and will take over the bed given a chance.Add to that you will not need lots of plants so again pots could be the best option. Now back to your “ no “ dig regime” .Another factor in using pots is you can move them around quite easily so this would fit in with a rotation plan if you plan on having one.Finally I would grow them in 10” to12” pots sunk in to the bed/s of your choice and this will ensure they are not blown/ knocked over plus it will keep the root ball cool.
As always this is only an opinion and in the end the choice is yours.

ps plus you could alway fetch a pot or two of your herbs up to the house at the end of the season and if these mildish winters are going to remain with us,you would have a good  supply of fresh herbs by the kitchen door!

[Obelixx]

Yes.  All my mints are in their own pots except for teh wild apple mint that spreads in the further regions of our plot.   None of them stays green, even here where winters can be mild.

I grow orange and lemon thymes in a raised bed near the back door along with chives, tarragon, oregano and rosemary.

My permanent beds in the veg plot have globe artichokes, asparagus and soft fruits and I'm working on making a boggy one for rhubarb.  Just need to talk to OH about digging a deep enough hole to line with holey old compost bags.......

[Tee Gee]

None of them stays green, even here where winters can be mild.

Just proves I don't grow herbs, hence my ignorance of these things. As I recall, that info came from some gardening pundit in my past!

[cropping]

I tried the CD method with just layering cardboard and then loads of compost and then planting into it.  Despite copious wetting of the cardboard I found plants like beetroot, chard and onions couldn't get their roots down enough to contend with dry periods and the perennial weeds like bindweed were not deterred.

That being so, I would thoroughly weed your intended perennial bed and add plenty of well-rooted compost and/or manure then plant and water in the usual way.   After watering in you can then cover the bed with cardboard, cutting or placing it to go around the stems and then water the cardboard well and mulch it with garden compost or bark chippings to hold down the cardboard and keep in moisture whilst excluding light from any seeds lurking in your soil and wanting to germinate.

Hi Obelixx,

Yes, that's a good idea, I will try that. And what about ongoing maintenance? I guess I can top up the wood chips from time to time?...

[Paulh]

The cardboard will rot within a year or so, but with any luck by then you will have "clean" soil left. Apply fertiliser and mulch every spring as appropriate to what you are growing. That should help keep the annual weeds down. You may have to hoe or spot weed occasionally. I wouldn't use only wood chips - I'm not sure that they add much in nutrients and I believe they can remove nitrogen as they decompose.

[Obelixx]

The RHS did a study and concluded that the amount of nitrogen consumed as wood or bark chips rot down is negligible but I imagine the benefits of moisture retention and weed suppression would far outweigh it anyway.

Yes, you still have to hoe occasionally to cut down annual weeds and the cardboard does rot down eventually so needs re-applying if using a bed in rotation.  For permanent beds you just top up the wood chips as needed.

[InfraDig]

Charles Dowding put out a video four days ago titled "5 Ways to Break Down and Use Wood Chips". It may answer some of your questions.

[Beersmith]

Like any allotment field each year we get a number of new plot holders and some of them report that they intend to follow the no dig method.  And each year our field manager offers the same friendly advice.  "You do appreciate that no dig doesn't mean no work?"

And each year some do it correctly and get good results but some neglect to do enough weeding and pretty soon their beds are totally swamped by weeds, unproductive and causing a nuisance to other plot holders.  Sadly they sometimes get discouraged and give up and sometimes have to be evicted.

The truth is that you will need to be fairly diligent to keep on top of weeds especially in the first couple of seasons.  No dig prevents dormant seeds being repeatedly brought up to the surface and the experts on our field say it gets easier as time goes by. 

Good luck and hoping it all goes well.

[Vinlander]

If your wood chip isn't in direct contact with the soil eg. it's holding down newspaper or cardboard, then it can't really affect the soil beneath - the scare about woodchip started as a warning about digging it in as a soil improver, and it all depends on the surface area of the chips.

Sawdust can halve the nitrogen in the soil for a year then disappear, chip will be slower and last longer, and anything bigger than the end of your thumb is hardly worse than a stone - especially if it is the residue of last year's chip.

So hand-chopped prunings cause little theft - though they are worth saving for your paths - chip can turn into a wooden quicksand if heavily trodden in winter.

Cheers.