Author Topic: Bramley Apples and plums  (Read 2491 times)

Galette

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Bramley Apples and plums
« on: February 25, 2021, 10:33:02 »
Hello gardeners.  I have recently moved into a house with a smallish back garden. It currently has only lawn but I have started by making two raised beds with two more to follow. In the past I have always been blessed by having established top fruit trees in my gardens, so I have just bought a Bramley apple tree and a plum tree from Aldi. 'Aha!' you will probably say...yes, I need two pollinators for the Bramley. I don't think there are any neighbours' apple trees nearby so have read that I need two more apple pollinators. Hmm, not much room in my garden!  So I have found a 'Mini' Gala apple for sale by Van Meuwen, the trees must be very young as the ad says it will end up being...'1m (3' 3") tall - just perfect for the patio! Supplied pot grown, 30-40cm (12-16") in height'.  I am also thinking of getting a dwarf Crab apple tree although I don't know which to choose. I would just love some advice on a) my choice of pollinators and b) general advice on planting these (4) fruit trees.  Has anyone grown a mini fruit tree?  How close will the mini and the crabapple have to be to the Bramley? TIA Galette.

Tee Gee

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 13:53:10 »
This list shows compatible groups rather than varieties. I would expect good suppliers to mention the group in their descriptions

https://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Content/A/Apple%20tree%20selection/Apple%20Tree%20selection.htm

Galette

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 15:01:40 »
Thanks very much for that Tee Gee, useful information.

Vinlander

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2021, 10:56:20 »
It's generally touted that any crab apple will pollinate every eating apple and will flower right through every group... Though I can't prove it is 100% true - basically I've got a lot of heritage apple varieties, so I haven't have to worry about the problem since about 20 years ago.

What I do know is that I can't resist trying the crab apples in nurseries - and the only one I ever found that tasted as good as a good eating apple was "Gorgeous" - but try it yourself before you buy the tree - after all, labels in general nurseries cannot be trusted, and the one I read must be equally suspect.

In fact out of 25 bare-roots from 2 specialist nurseries, one of those nurseries delivered a bogus "Claygate Pearmain" and the first replacement was a different bogus - fortunately I'd tasted the real thing at Brogdale so I could tell.   

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Galette

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2021, 15:34:29 »
Thanks Vinlander.  I think I will only use the crab apples for jelly.  Am I right in thinking that the date when everything flowers is the key consideration, so if Bramleys are in blossom in May then I want my other apple varieties to be doing the same.

Obelixx

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2021, 18:00:31 »
The RHS lists pollination groups by variety - https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/pdfs/ApplePollinationGroups.pdf   Hope it helps.
Obxx - Vendée France

Vinlander

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2021, 16:50:02 »
Thanks Vinlander.  I think I will only use the crab apples for jelly.  Am I right in thinking that the date when everything flowers is the key consideration, so if Bramleys are in blossom in May then I want my other apple varieties to be doing the same.

Hi Galette,

Yes, the big issue is timing so do use the RHS groups, but on top of that a few of the most popular varieties accept pollen but don't make any (triploids) - beyond that there are so few genuinely incompatible pollen makers that you would be very unlucky to plant just two of those and nothing else.

Incidentally the right pollen groups guarantee the maximum overlap of flowers, but they are wider than that, so adjacent groups can still work - just less reliably. If you only want to grow 2 types for market, then choose from the same pollen group. If you want just one type of tree then adding one crab is the neatest solution as long as it is close enough to all of them.

If like me you want a range of ripening times then you may end up with enough different apples to remove the risks.

I think the main reason crab apples make good jelly is their pectin content. It's only a guess, but I suspect they all have lots, and I don't think pectin has a taste, so there's no reason a crab apple that tastes good raw would make an inferior jelly - though I know a lot of people enjoy extra tartness in a jelly.

For cider (and many cider varieties are closer to crabs than eaters) the best mix includes sharp, astringent/bitter and sweet types - mirroring the importance of the sweet/sharp/toasted/bitterness balance that makes beers and ales so interesting (and bog standard lagers so disappointing).

I have a vague recollection that some cider varieties also have a usefully longer flowering period than eaters and cookers - but I can't pin down the source.

Cheers.

PS. I grow hardly any earlies because the flavour changes so rapidly at that time of year that they are disappointing unless you can eat them all off the tree or very soon after. I like a sharp crisp apple with a well developed flavour so my trees range from lateish to very late. On the other hand I eat them ASAP while that flavour is there - I almost totally ignore the storage idea - I'd rather juice them at their peak than let them get softer and sweeter. Apples from NZ etc. in April are so much better than being disappointed by my own stored apples - with the possible exception of Sturmers.

BTW ex-pats in France grow Bramleys almost exclusively as a zingy eater. I try that here but they tend to fall off while they are still green.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Beersmith

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2021, 22:45:54 »
Excellent advice from other contributors but because apple trees are so many and varied in type and flavour, it is possible to get focused on those issues and forget about another key issue.  Namely the rootstock which controls the size and height of the mature tree. 

If you want a really miniature tree, it probably needs to be on an M27 rootstock. The most widely used small apple tree rootstock is M9. Unless you have a large garden these are your best choices for cookers and eaters. That said, Bramley's are fairly vigorous and generally produce larger trees on any rootstock. It is well worth checking the rootstock for your recent purchase. M9 is very widely used commercially as the size makes picking easy and if it is good enough for professional growers it will probably be good enough for us amateurs.

But the depth and quality of your soil is also a factor. If it is poor, consider M26 which is a bit more vigorous. Very small trees may need permanent staking. M9 will need staking for a few years, but if the garden is reasonably sheltered and the tree is growing well in good soil permanent staking may not be needed.

Unless your garden is very big I'd be cautious about anything larger. Lots of apples get sold on M106 rootstock but a final height of 12 to 15 feet may be fine for some people it is too tall for some and not that easy to harvest.

I love apples, and have seven in an orchard area on my allotment and two more in the garden. A fascinating subject. Have fun!



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Galette

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Re: Bramley Apples and plums
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2021, 09:47:15 »
Thanks for all your advice.  As soon as the garden centres are open I will enjoy investigating what's on offer.

 

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