Topic: Is this for real?

[ACE]

a copy of a letter going around.   

There is a rogue batch of courgettes out there is season, be warned

Hello everyone and I am the social media manager for Mr Fothergill’s. As posted by Mark Carroll above, we have recently become aware of this issue with a small number of people being in touch with our Customer Services team about bitter courgettes. The variety involved is Courgette Zucchini with batch code I printed on the back of the packet next to the barcode. We have withdrawn all stocks of this seed immediately, recalled all stocks in garden centres and are currently contacting customers we know to have bought this variety by mail order.

We are very sorry to hear of the discomfort suffered by anyone who has an affected plant, though there seem to be only some rogue seeds amongst the batch, with some packets causing no problem at all. As pointed out in this thread already, it has likely resulted from an inadvertent cross-pollination in the plants that produced the seeds. We would urge anyone who has a packet of these seeds to get in contact with us by email on debbie.porter@mr-fothergills.co.uk

If you have grown a plant from these seeds, you can taste-test the fruits before consuming them by cutting them a licking the flesh. Affected fruits are extremely bitter and an indication you should destroy the plant. Please do not consume the fruits of any plants that have produced bitter tasting fruits.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

[saddad]

Sounds very suspect to me. Cross pollinated squash can be bitter but this doesn't sound right.

[Deb P]

I had a bit of an internet trawl, and going that letter was originally posted on a Brighton and Hove allotments page in 2013! One person who said he was ‘poisoned’ had stomach cramps after eating a bitter courgette.
There is a recent comment from someone this year which says they have suffered a similar thing. The variety is sold out on Fothergills website with no comment or press release about this.
I wouldn’t eat a bitter cucumber..of indeed anything else that didn’t taste good, who eats a whole meal of something horrid?! Let your tongue be your guide say I.....!

[ACE]

Just another wind up then, thought so.

[BarriedaleNick]

I have read loads of posts online in which people are complaining about this so I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it completely.   
I do like how one of the posts on the Brighton and Hove allotments page is from Mr Di Rhea though..

The RHS even mentions it https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=676

"The bitter taste of some fruit is caused by an over-production of plant defence chemicals called ‘cucurbitacins’. This is mainly a problem in courgettes and summer squash and is caused primarily by a mutation within the plant. The problem is more likely when plants are grown from saved seeds, where inadvertent cross-pollination may have occurred.  Affected fruit should not be eaten as it causes stomach upsets and affected plants should be removed."

There are even reports of a death in Germany associated with tainted courgettes..

https://www.thelocal.de/20150821/courgette-stew-kills-pensioner-in-heidelberg.

It's a real thing..

[Obelixx]

It's real and is most likely to happen with open pollinated courgettes especially if one parent is an ornamental gourd - a good reason to stick to named varieties and not volunteers in your compost bin.

Eating a bitter courgette can cause discomfort and, in severe cases, diarrhoea and stomach cramps.

https://lancaster.unl.edu/hort/articles/2007/bittercuke.shtml

[early weeder]

Looks like quite a few people have been ill this year after eating even a bit of one of these bitter courgettes. They are "Courgette Zucchini" from Mr Fothergill's
https://www.bhaf.org.uk/content/advice/gardening-advice-a-z/poisonous-courgette-warning

[Obelixx]

Fothergill recall - https://www.mr-fothergills.co.uk/Home/Product-Recall-MRF/#.Xw9h-CgzaM9

[ACE]

It looks as if that seed company is not to be trusted. If it has happened in the past (2013) and they didn't put it right. How many other varieties of seed are rogue? There's us thinking it is the soil/compost, something we done wrong or weather conditions when all along it is just crappy seed. The prices are steadily rising on everything garden related and the quality has gone down. I have tools over 50 years old that have more life in them than the modern stuff. Compost is just tip waste, it goes on and on.

[Obelixx]

It etc are not acceptable in Europe. depends on whether they produce their own seeds and have failed on quality and pollination control or whether they buy their seeds in and their supplier has failed.

Either way, they've done the right thing in recalling the seeds and it' snot like it's a fault in a washing machine that sets homes and whole apartment blocks on fire.

As for tool quality, there's no profit margin in a spade that lasts 50 or 60 years unless you can charge outrageous prices to start with.  As long as people want cheap we'll get shoddy good or else goods made in China where labour rights, conditions, pay levels are so much poorer than those in Europe.   I'd rather go without or pay more to keep jobs in Europe than support a totalitarian regime.

[saddad]

It makes a mockery of the "National List" which has cost us so many good "old/heritage" varieties...

[ACE]

It makes a mockery of the "National List" which has cost us so many good "old/heritage" varieties...

  We lost a lot of those ourselves, the market is for 'exotics', years ago I would go to my local seedsman and buy an envelope of cabbage, sprouts carrots etc. a pint of beans or peas. Courgette! I  don't want that foreign rubbish, give me  some marrow seeds. Then the superfoods started along with cheap polys/green houses and the seed companies followed suite with seeds that some of us had never heard of. King Edwards used to fill the tater patch, who in their right mind would waste the space on small wonkey pink fir apple. Don't get me started on Garlic Bread

[BarriedaleNick]

I love Pink Fir Apple spuds - more flavour than just about any other spuds but I have been saving my own seed ones for about 8 years now.
I wouldn't write off "modern" seeds just because on seed supplier to one seed company had one batch of one type of one vegetable get pollinated by some sort of wild cucurbit.  Bitter courgettes, cucumbers and squash have been a thing for ever - breeding has largely breed it out but every now and then you get problems - very rare though.
   

[pumkinlover]

Courgette and lemon marmalade. Yummy.

[Obelixx]

Garden organic have a heritage seed library for those keen on conserving old varieties - https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl

I would get seriously bored eating "traditional" British veg every day.   Not that keen on potatoes anyway but do love pink fir apple for flavour and texture.  I'd rather grow more interesting veg that is either hard to find or very expensive or tastes better freshly picked.   

Potatoes take up a lot of space, a lot of water and mature all at the same time so then you have to have suitable space to store them well.   Curly kale is rarely offered here so I'm growing my own.  Never seen PSB so growing that too.   Limited range of pumpkins and squashes here so i'm growing spaghetti squash and Crown Prince but also yellow courgettes and Utchiki Kuri.   Strawberries and blackberries are expensive so we have those too and, because we can here, 2 baby nectarine trees and a peach which are now big enough to plant out this autumn and we have a meyer lemon and a Limquat in pots so we can move them to the polytunnel in winter.

[ACE]

I would get seriously bored eating "traditional" British veg every day.   

So would I, but that is how is used to be when we grew veg in the back garden, especially in the 50's. I've lost count of the different veggies and fruits I have tried over the years but still like to grow a few of the basics, I would give it up if I couldn't get my weekly fix of savoy cabbage in the winter. Curly kale was known as hungry gap, and served with rabbit pie and floury spuds when there was little else to crop, Nero is nice but that is more likely to go with a tuna steak and refried beans nowadays.

[InfraDig]

I believe Mr Fothergill subsidiaries include D T Brown and Johnsons, so does the problem go wider? As an aside, can someone remind me of the seed companies grouping, who owns what? Thanks.

[ACE]

Unwins are now having trouble. Unless it is the compensation brigade lining up for some easy money.

[BarriedaleNick]

Someone just posted T&M are having issues too.  I'll believe it when I see it - I fear that hysteria and bull may be spreading.

[Deb P]

Someone just posted T&M are having issues too.  I'll believe it when I see it - I fear that hysteria and bull may be spreading.

Jumping on the bandwagon springs to mind....🙄 There’s always someone to blame for everything these days and where there’s blame follows a claim.....goodness knows what ridiculous new restrictions will follow to prevent ‘hazardous’ cross pollination at this rate!