Author Topic: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller  (Read 3032 times)

Paulines7

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Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« on: July 15, 2019, 16:15:21 »
A friend of mine had her niece come to stay with her.  She opted to help with the watering and my friend told her not to use the red watering can as it had weedkiller (Sodium Chlorate) in it.  You can guess what happened.....   My friends tomato plants and cucumbers which she grew in the soil in her greenhouse, have all died. 

Does anyone know how long it would be before my friend can grow things in the soil that has been contaminated please?  If she sprayed the area with a hose for several weeks, would this make the ground safe for her plants next Spring? 

My friend is so upset as her tomato plants were over 6ft tall and had lots of large tomatoes on them.   I only have a few weedy ones left as I have planted up the best of them.  I can give her some fruit for her own use when mine ripen but she wanted to put her surplus on the table in our village where donations left go to Cancer Research.   




pumkinlover

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 17:33:14 »
I was only thinking about you today and then you go and post.
Just sorry it is with such a sad tale.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 19:34:00 »
When sold for ground clearance, before being 'banned', it was advised that 12 months should elapse before replanting. This was at the prescribed concentration, your friend should not still be using it at all! I hope she doen't store it next to the icing sugar.....
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Beersmith

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 21:09:02 »
I think the good news is that there will probably be no long term effects.

Sodium chlorate is a very powerful oxidising agent. Its main industrial use is as a bleach especially for paper pulp.  It kills plants by this oxidising process. The commonest oxidation process we all know about is burning. It produces similar sorts of damage though obviously without any high temperatures. It gives up its oxygen quite readily so as unlikely to be very persistent.

The residual breakdown product in the soil is sodium chloride or simple table salt. Not good for plants in high concentrations but very soluble so should wash out in time.  How long? I do not know. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't fine by early spring next season.

The short term weed killing effect is likely to subside quite quickly. How long to flush out the table salt residue would depend on drainage conditions in the greenhouse.

Perplexing though that people still have a product that was banned years and years ago. And made up into a solution too rather than in the usual form as a powder.  I won't ask.

That said I am unsure why a product like this should be banned. No long term effects. Mode of action completely understood. Simple residual product that while harmful to plants in high concentrations is entirely natural and harmless at low concentrations and can be simply washed away over time.

Now compare that with neonicotinoids of things like Aminopyralid. Not banned but long term effects unknown. Very persistent. May have unforeseen effects. And if it ever got into the food chain, would you sooner eat a complex organophosphate or a tiny bit of table salt?

I'll get off my soapbox now.
Not mad, just out to mulch!

Paulines7

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 17:11:44 »
Thank you for your replies which I will show to my friend.  I was surprised that she had any kind of weedkiller let alone a banned one!

We were chatting last year when I reprimanded my husband for using weedkiller on the weeds and grass that come up on our pebbled driveway.  I was furious because I am against using this stuff and the fact that our 2 cats eat grass occasionally had me worried.  I also think it is not good for insects and birds who could be poisoned by it.  My friend agreed with me and she sided with me against my husband.  She is coming up here this evening so we will have a good chat about it. 

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 19:10:56 »
 "That said I am unsure why a product like this should be banned. No long term effects. Mode of action completely understood. Simple residual product that while harmful to plants in high concentrations is entirely natural and harmless at low concentrations and can be simply washed away over time. "

I believe it was banned because it might be harmful in certain circumstances of misuse. No details will be given but sufficient to say having seen the method, felt the effects, heard the bang and escaped without injury or punishment, I have not seen the need to experiment further for more than 55 years........
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ACE

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 22:37:33 »
I have also heard the bang, but I have also heard and felt the slipper. It was also good for writing rude words on some miserable old codgers lawn.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2019, 08:37:59 »
I have also heard the bang, but I have also heard and felt the slipper. It was also good for writing rude words on some miserable old codgers lawn.
I recall an old codger of my acquaint who had a mole disrupting his plantings of peas. He also had a can of calcium carbide. Duly opened a mole hill and inserted carbide. Watered well.
Became impatient and inserted lit match- and lifted the row some inches. Did far more harm than Mr Mole!
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

Vinlander

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 09:59:58 »
"That said I am unsure why a product like this should be banned. No long term effects. Mode of action completely understood. Simple residual product that while harmful to plants in high concentrations is entirely natural and harmless at low concentrations and can be simply washed away over time. "

I believe it was banned because it might be harmful in certain circumstances of misuse. No details will be given but sufficient to say having seen the method, felt the effects, heard the bang and escaped without injury or punishment, I have not seen the need to experiment further for more than 55 years........

I'm with Beersmith on this one - if we banned everything that "might be harmful in certain circumstances of misuse" we would have to get rid of all our worldly goods - just about anything can be misused - Cluedo gives you a hint - anything made of any hard substance - plus anything that can be used as a tether.

It would make more sense to start with the biggest unintentional killers - cars would be an obvious place to start.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Tiny Clanger

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2019, 17:07:16 »
So sad to hear that. Heart breaking. plants gone. Sodium Chlorate is a very permanent killer.  Not sure how long it will stay in the soil.  I think it may depend on the concentration of the solution.  I think it could be up to two years - but PLEASE don't quote me on that.  :crybaby2:
I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now; let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

ACE

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Re: Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2019, 08:37:51 »
Some good can come from the misuse of chemicals that are made for one thing and used for something else. My partner in crime 60 years ago went on to mix other stuff when he was older. The last I heard of him he was involved in the space programme sending rockets to mars. Perhaps that is why nothing grows up there ;)

 

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