Author Topic: Mare's Tail  (Read 9909 times)

Borderers1951

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Mare's Tail
« on: May 11, 2019, 11:28:48 »
I recently took on a second plot on the local site.  I was warned it was badly infested by Mare's Tail and have been digging out shoots and roots for some weeks yet still it comes.  I have decided to give it a good dose of a suitable weedkiller - perhaps several doses.  It's no longer a case of should I use it or not, it's the death penalty now.  I have tested a small segment with a strong glyphosate which does work to some degree but is there anything else which is as  effective or possibly more so?

Plot 18

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 12:46:00 »
Ammonium sulphamate really does kill the stuff, but the EU banned it's use, because it refused to review the data supplied unless it contained details of animal testing on dogs, which the supplier thought would cause unnecessary suffering to animals  :BangHead:
 
You can only buy it to as a compost accelerant now.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_sulfamate and other sites about it and its use.

Tee Gee

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 13:14:34 »
Although it took a couple of years to get rid of it I found that constant hoe hoe hoeing :icon_santa: :icon_santa: was the answer, I never let it grow higher than 50mm(2") before hoeing it down.

I also found that improving the quality of the soil and making it slightly alkaline seemed to help.

I never tried chemical treatment so can't vouch for this method although it is often recommended!

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Content/M/Mare%27s%20Tail/Mare%27s%20Tail.htm

Beersmith

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 19:44:23 »
Ammonium sulphamate really does kill the stuff, but the EU banned it's use, because it refused to review the data supplied unless it contained details of animal testing on dogs, which the supplier thought would cause unnecessary suffering to animals  :BangHead:
 
You can only buy it to as a compost accelerant now.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_sulfamate and other sites about it and its use.

It was reported that the Irish rapporteur behaved in a very perverse way in the handling of this case.  Technically it is not banned. It is simply unlicensed. What pressure or incentives might have caused the rapporteur's behaviour? Who can guess?
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nodig

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2019, 20:30:20 »
I can remember Joe Swift of BBC gardeners world starting his own allotment plot a few years back.  When he found out that his new plot was infested with Mares Tail he enthusiastically asking an old boy for advice.  I had to laugh when the answer he was given was 'give up'.  Funnily enough I think he did after a few more episodes!

ACE

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 08:32:04 »
I took over a plot on a site once that nobody wanted because of the mares tail. A deep dig over removing all the bits of black root I could find, then as suggested by other posters hoe, hoe, hoe. I grew plenty of stuff on the plot. Can be a nuisance in amongst a row of seedlings but plan your thinning right and you will be ok. I don't think mares tail takes a lot from the soil all it does is look untidy. It would not worry me now, but whatever you do DON'T ROTAVATE.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 10:54:34 »
Fortunately never been stressed by the plant, just a matter of luck. Its got its uses,
See:
http://wssa.net/wp-content/themes/WSSA/WorldOfWeeds/horsetail.html
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

nodig

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2019, 18:29:08 »
I have to laugh at the comment that just do a deep dig all over the plot and that gets rid of the Mares Tail.  A deep dig over a standard plot would involve going through 150 cubic metres of soil, getting on for 300 tonnes!.  Of course the experienced allotmenteers on this forum would only take a couple of hours to dig 300 tonnes of soil but for newbies it would take perhaps a lifetime or a bit longer.

Obelixx

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2019, 19:11:24 »
You have to treat it like you would if you had an elephant to eat.  One bite at a time till it's done!

Digging over beds as you need them and covering the ones you can't get to or don't yet need will get you thru it in do-able chunks.   I had mare's tail in parts of my last garden where the soil was imported, neutral clay.   I just hoed, dug, pulled as appropriate.   

You can make a very good fungicide and rust treatment by soaking mares' tail in a bucket of water for a few weeks (needs a lid) and then strain and dilute 10 parts water to 1 part liquid.   If you use weedkiller, don't make tea, obviously, but do add a bit of washing up liquid to the mix to help it stick and break or crush the stems to help absorption as they contain a lot of silica and can be a bit impervious.   Used to be used as pan scrubs.

Doing the same now in this new garden where the 25 x 29m veg plot is riddled with bindweed.   Clear it one new bed at a time and then keep it hoed.   We leave the roots and shoots out in the sun to dry out completely before they go anywhere near a compost heap.
Obxx - Vendée France

ACE

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2019, 19:16:46 »
Being a gravedigger for a number of years when I was younger, deep digging was my speciality. :tongue3: It didn't take long to turn a plot over with the right tools, not a silly little garden spade, a nice big heavy builders shovel worked a treat for me. Getting on a bit now so piddly little tools are the norm. But it keeps me fit.

Tee Gee

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2019, 20:08:30 »
Quote
of course the experienced allotmenteers on this forum would only take a couple of hours to dig 300 tonnes of soil but for newbies it would take perhaps a lifetime or a bit longer.

Well a couple of hours for a whole plot is pushing it a bit, but I used to dig and muck one of these beds in under 3 hours and found it to be quite therapeutic and more than that most beneficial to my soil.



The best bit about digging say one spit deep is you can generally keep on top of all the most problematic of weeds e.g mares tail, dandelions, docks to name but a few.

I have always maintained that a plot's output is relative to the gardener's input!

So as they say up here in Yorkshire......nout in nout out!

Then there is the more common saying......you reap what you sow!

Now that I have retired from allotmenteering I think I could say that having tried many of the new fangled  methods such as " no dig" or "raised beds" one spit deep digging always gave me my best results!

So I guess if you make your own bed then it it is up to you to accept it!( ok lie in it!) :thumbsup:





Tiny Clanger

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 11:03:31 »
Unfortunately the ONLY ones I know of are not suitable for use on an allotment.  :BangHead:
I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now; let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

martinrowe

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 22:00:59 »
We have got some of this in our garden.  The main problem is that it is very difficult to get rid of it and it has been around for millions of years.  I have found WHO bedevilled knocks it back when mixed at a slightly higher close.  Greeting the main areas of growth seems to have made a difference.

This plant was on the earth prior to dinosaurs, so knows how to service and grow.

Digeroo

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2021, 13:06:46 »
Have you tried lime?  When I lived near the edge of the chalk North Downs, it was easy to see where the Green sandstone layer underneath it comes to the surface, it is where the marestail starts as well.
I only have it in one place in my garden, where the water butt leaks, so the ground is watered with rainwater. 
A few allotments on our site had bits of it, but once watered with well water which come through limestone, it soon dies out.
I do not know how much you need, but apart from things like blue berries everything else will still grow ok well, and your potatoes might look scabby.


saddad

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2021, 07:49:44 »
Improving the soil does help, with lime or muck, it is a very primitive plant, not having true leaves and finds it difficult to compete with strong growth, but thrives on poor soils. I found Ammonium Sulphamate (sorry English spelling!) very useful for bringing very neglected plots back into cultivation in the '90's.

Harry

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2023, 18:31:19 »
Ok. Re-raising this old chestnut, because my newly acquired plot has this b45t4rd all over it. Bindweed, too.

First off, where others are dealing with this, they don't say whether it's maturely grown, green marestail, or just short shoots. Does that make the plan of attack different?

To anyone who says, just keep excavating it out, I just don't see it. If I COULD get rid of all mine, I figure it would only take a year to get reinfected from another plot, or from a leftover shred of root.

Unknowingly. I dug over and weeded one of my beds, thinking i'd done a fair job of pulling out weed roots. That was before i knew this beast. I covered over half the bed to suppress weeds and proceeded to sow spuds and beans in the cleared area. So far so good.

A couple of weeks later, i lifted my tarp and saw lots of 2 inch marestail shoots. The covering seemed to encourage it!!
So i started to dig again to try to get them out. But there were also a similar number of these weed shoots among my sowed spuds and beans. I've loosened and pulled many, but I don't want to disturb my sown seeds. The ones I pull out, I generally get 6-9 inch of root, but no way i get it all. It snaps SO easily. If it matters, my soil is nice loam and I'm not doing no-dig.

Now. i see someone say this doesn't take much from the soil, and I've been told it's better to leave the shoots so as not to disturb my sowing.
But I'm torn. I don't want it to prosper, but I do want my veg to grow. Short of abandoning all hope, what should i do? Will hoeing have enough impact? Do i just have to live with it?

Next question?
I'm nurturing a pretty good compost heap and i'd LIKE to compost my weeds, but i fear the tiniest bit of marestail contamination could make the compost heap useless. Heck, it may well be contaminated already. Short of not deliberately composting marestail, how do i keep it out? Should i not compost weeds at all? Is it not inevitable that it will get infected anyway via spores?

I also have bindweed present, but that pales into insignificance by comparison.

I'm taking all pulled weeds offsite and currently brown binning them. I'm a BIT wary of infecting my garden beds from spores on my shoes and tools. Am i overthinking this?


Beersmith

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2023, 20:41:17 »
With hard work it is certainly possible to control and even eradicate bind weed and couch grass from loam. Not easy but doable and progress made one season will make it easier for the next.

Mare's tail is an order of magnitude more difficult.  As you have observed the roots break off easily and it will regenerate from even small pieces. If you want to avoid strong weedkiller some recommend boosting both the soil fertility and also the pH.  Strangely it seems to like impoverished poor quality soils better than rich ones.  It's tough.  Good luck.
Not mad, just out to mulch!

Obelixx

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2023, 21:31:30 »
Regular and frequent hoeing will weaken it but you'll have to be consistent and make sure yu get it before it can set spores and multiply.  The roots go down forever so digging it all out is not an option and it's got a lot of silica so needs to be crushed before it will absorb weedkiller.

It does have some benefits tho as you can use the stems you've hoed off to make a purin which is a great fungicide and will act both as a preventative treatment and a cure. 

1kilo fresh horsetail, bashed and bruised
9 litres of water

Combine the two in a plastic bucket - not metal - and leave for 2 weeks.  Stir occasionally.  It's ready when the water has gone black.  It will smell so you may want a lid.

Strain the resulting liquid, put the goo on the compost heap and dilute the rest 1 part to 9 parts water and spray.

Harmless to insects and can be used as a cure as well as to prevent mildew, peach leaf curl, black spot on roses, tomato blight....

Obxx - Vendée France

Plot22

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2023, 15:45:47 »
I have a 2 neighbours on my allotment site both of which have it and only hoe or do nothing. I have bits coming under the pad but I kill it with Kurtail and have done so for some years now. For the odd bit that I have I cut the bottom off a plastic bottle put it over the Mare's Tail and spray it result it goes black in days. The odd bit that comes back I repeat the process. We have had  one character on the allotment site who had half his plot a forest of Mare's Tail. What did he do he set a lawn on it for his kids to play on and then gave the allotment up. Result whoever takes it on has to kill both his lawn and the Mare's Tail. I think he was from the Ukraine but the icing on the cake he said he he was a gardener by profession and looked after people's gardens for a living. Not mine I wish to add. Kurtail is not cheap £35 plus postage but it works and 0.5litre will last sometime when diluted.

Harry

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Re: Mare's Tail
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2023, 20:56:30 »
Ammonium sulphamate really does kill the stuff, but the EU banned it's use, because it refused to review the data supplied unless it contained details of animal testing on dogs, which the supplier thought would cause unnecessary suffering to animals  :BangHead:
 
You can only buy it to as a compost accelerant now.
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_sulfamate and other sites about it and its use.

opinions, please, on this listing for ammonium sulphamate accelerator? If I accidentally spill it on weed foliage, will it damage the soil like Sodium Chlorate would would it quickly biodegrade like glyphosphate?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2023, 20:58:20 by Harry »

 

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