Topic: grapes

[ACE]

As there are quite a few vineyards around here I have got it in my mind to put up a wire strung fence at the bottom of the allotment and grow half a dozen grapevines  along it. I have an friend in the trade so I will go and see him soon and see if I can blag some old vines as they re-plant areas with new vines now and again. The allotment is on a gentle slope and faces south, so sunshine all day long. I doubt if I will make wine but use the fruit like other soft fruit and even dry them like raisins or sultanas depending on which type of grapes I can get.

[Tee Gee]

Go for it sounds like a good idea to me,sadly I have to grow my vine in my conservatory.

As we folks up here in the wild and woolly north say; 'down south' your weather is a coat warmer than ours!

So in other words my conservatory is my coat!

[BarriedaleNick]

We have some old Italian fellas on site and they grow grapes out doors.  Ron was beaming last year - all the heat and sun gave him a great crop.  I tried it once and ended up with more pip than grape..

[galina]

Absolutely.  Ace this will be successful.  A friend on Hayling Island which must be fairly close in climate to IOW, has very good and consistent success with outdoor grapes.  Even here the outdoor grapes last summer were wonderful. 

[Paulh]

I'd research varieties and how best they grow because there is a huge range out there. What you blag may not be worth the effort otherwise. Not all wine varieties are particularly good as dessert grapes, and there are now seedless dessert varieties developed for the UK climate, for instance.

There's an allotment holder locally who has several vines on his plot and had beautiful grapes at the local show last year.

[ACE]

I'd research

Yep, I was told the vines from the vineyard are a variety just for wine, so I head into the internet, the usual charlatans and misinformation but some good advice from the temperate regions over the pond and New Zealand. I would like seedless, but they are a price and not really suited for outdoors here. Plenty of (unrooted) sticks for sale, but in a few weeks time aldilidlyaldi will have some for sale usually on a good rootstock which I will start with, then get grafting when established from the friends vines who have good results. Failing all that I will dip into my pocket and pay a visit to Deacons fruit tree nursery which is just down the road and pick their brains for the best deal they have got.

[Vinlander]

Go for it sounds like a good idea to me,sadly I have to grow my vine in my conservatory.

As we folks up here in the wild and woolly north say; 'down south' your weather is a coat warmer than ours!

So in other words my conservatory is my coat!

I'm sure the right grape variety would produce outdoors in Yorkshire given a sunny spot. The S side of a house is even better... I'd recommend the hybrid called Himrod. It is is deliciously sweet, white, seedless and very early.

Such hybrids are crosses with American species from their NE coast right up to Nova Scotia eg. Vitis labrusca that grows in colder damper foggier conditions than ours; and these genes are in hybrid grapes making them fruit earlier outside - more reliable in the UK and with less problems than 'normal' V.vinifera grapes that evolved in hot dry climates like Greece/Georgia.

The earliest and best for higher latitudes is Himrod - it achieves this from its labrusca side while dodging the tough skin and the strawberry taste.  That taste could have ruined Himrod - but Interlaken has it and some love it some hate it. Lakemont is a close cousin but also dodged the bullet - it is sweeter but not as early.

NB. strawberry flavours in red, blue and black varieties are often a bonus - it adds flavour and sometimes spicy overtones like you get in the various supermarket grape varieties sold as Sable.

Have a look at Sunnybank Nurseries.

Cheers.

[ACE]

Well, what do you reckon, googled Himrod and got a link to J Parkers. 3 seedless including Himrod  about £16 including postage with a  discount code   'JPD741' if anybody is interested in using it and a free gift of lupins. Thankyou all for the info.

[Paulh]

With your name, I guess you know what you are talking about, Vinlander!

[Tee Gee]

Did a Google for Sunnybank Nurseries and got a site in Ireland + Parkers do you have a link to the site you meant Vin?

Look forward to your reply ....Tg

[Vinlander]

That's weird - a few days before I posted I'd used my bookmark for www.sunnybankvines.co.uk - which has the 2018 and 2019 lists

But I should have gone back to the bookmark - sorry - when I googled  'Sunnybank Nurseries' myself  the first time today I got this - http://vinenursery.netfirms.com/  - which is the same nursery but out of date (2010).

I tried some other combinations which threw up all sorts of nursery schools and when I went back to 'Sunnybank Nurseries' that did too!

They hold the National Collection for vines - how can Google almost ignore them (at different times of day?) - machine learning gone amok?

This is a big mess for Google - who normally know their business (though I'd already given up Chrome on Android for any important searches - that's really flaky)

Anyway the 'full collection 2019' is definitely the same list I used a few years ago to get some more spicy reds like Reliance (true to its name and very like a seedless version of the more common strawberry grape the Italians call Fragaria).

It used to say Himrod was the best for the UK - there are some contenders now - but nothing so well tested.

I still think Glenora is the best tasting seedless table blue/black - yields are low outdoors (better on a warm wall) but still well worth it south of - I dunno - Watford?  for the amazing flavour if you can spare the space.

These spicy hybrid reds/blacks still taste like grapes - but different - sort of like apricot juice vs peach juice.

Anyway the list is worth reading - NB. the seedless grapes are listed between the seeded whites and seeded reds.

Cheers.

[ACE]

Plants arrived today and not bad condition, potted and 15 inches high and a thumb nail scrape showed green near the top, 4 or five buds per stem.  I built the framework yesterday, but I will heel them in the poly for a while as a bit of cold weather is predicted soon.  Labeled Glenora, Himrod and Suffolk red, Only time will tell now. Wish me luck.

[Vinlander]

The grapes sold as "Sable" are the closest to the flavour of Glenora, so well worth a try, but they aren't all the same variety - the trademark covers a range of similar flavours.

One variety called Vittoria/Vitoria is very close to Glenora but stronger flavoured to the point where it is almost too intense - so not as well balanced, and the strong blackberry flavour may be too much for some (if so chop them into a fruit salad).

The Sable label was in Lidl and others in January and I haven't seen it since, but it may reappear and disappear as other spicy varieties ripen and become available from the S side of the planet...

Cheers.

[Obelixx]

Whatever you end up growing the key is to thin the grape bunches so as not to stress the plant and then thin the grapes on the bunches so the rest can get fatter and juicier.   OH did a good job last year on the ones we inherited and we had a better crop.  Ended up making grape and rosemary jelly as we had such a good crop.

[John85]

grape and rosemary jelly
How do you prepare that please?

[ACE]

Lots of swear words! vine weevil eggs in all the pots. Gave them a good clean out and squished the lot. Put back in pots with fresh potting compost  and into an empty cold frame until I get a reply from the suppliers. They were not damaged by the weevils as they had not turned into grubs and the roots were healthy but really annoying and not what you expect from a nursery that I thought had good reviews. Definitely eggs not slow release plant food as they squashed a treat.  A less wise gardener would have put them straight in the ground, but having raised plants for sale myself  I always check the roots on anything I buy in a pot.

[Obelixx]

John85.  Hi.  Recipe here along with all sorts of other goodies - https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2604636/grape-and-rosemary-jelly

[saddad]

I have a Regent here in Derby and sometimes get worthwhile fruit, considering replacing it with a Lakemont but might look again at Himrod having read this thread...

[Vinlander]

 

Lots of swear words! vine weevil eggs in all the pots.

Vine weevils can't survive under water - a 24hr lukewarm  soak will kill them all and leave the plant unharmed.

You could probably get away with less by using stagnant smelly over-fertilised water because it contains no oxygen (eutrophic) but this I haven't tested.

The absolute top use for this technique is to kill veevils in pots that have a complex structure eg. layered ingredients - especially strawberry towers or the terracotta equivalent - also ones made up with a vertical "corridor drain" of neat gravel or perlite to guarantee drainage.

Strawberries can survive many days of waterlogging, but with other species it's safer to stick with 24hrs (unless you can test a spare).

Cheers.

PS. With seedless grapes I can't see any point to thinning - the small ones taste identical to the large ones and are no more trouble to eat and fungi rarely trouble my hybrid grapes (mine don't make dangerously large cramped bunches - certainly not Himrod). I just remove any flowers that appear after the first flush starts to swell - those are the ones that might never ripen anyway (though you could use them for Vinho Verde - or use the sharp juice to make verjuice-grette dressing).

[ACE]

I like to be sure so I teased all the roots out as they were pot bound anyway then a really good swish in a bucket of  clean water until all the eggs were gone, then replanted into bigger pots with fresh compost. I've used this method before on my plants when I had the nursery and I can't recall any losses. But I will over water for a few days although there were no grubs which is what I presume you drown.