Author Topic: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)  (Read 1801 times)

Vinlander

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,759
  • North London - heavy but fertile clay
Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« on: November 25, 2018, 10:27:09 »
I recently realised why my perennial "Aunt Molly's" physalis in the polytunnel survived the winter about 1000% better than the one in my (warmer) greenhouse.

The PT one was in a raised bed and the greenhouse one was in a flat border.

They obviously like dry soil in winter. I could probably have saved the greenhouse one if I'd dug a sink next to it last November - or even better a moat. But they are really too big for it anyway.

I'm going to have to make a giant cloche or cloches** for some cuttings - they take up too much room to stay in the PT or greenhouse, but now I realise the cloches will have to be on a precious raised bed - probably a new one. Once the cloche ones have fruited well I will risk digging out the PT one.

I'm pretty sure the same goes for pepinos -  they are reasonably hardy in a pot of dry soil but I was surprised they didn't enjoy a capillary mat last year - they hold more & greener leaves then phys but in the case of pepinos it's probably a false hope. I have loads of cuttings but overwintering a mature plant is best - so next year they go in a raised cloche too.

I will try medium sized root balls of mollys & pepino on the same winter system as yacon - tops off & a loosely tied plastic bag of barely moist compost or peat put in a dry frost-free corner and left there until March (hopefully not forgotten).

** My plot is on a slope and the raised beds are terraces along the contour - a long cloche can act as a dam to the cold air that slides down the slope, and the stuff inside can end up with worse frost damage than stuff in the open - so separate square cloches with gaps between are better than one long one.

Cheers.

With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Beersmith

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 892
  • Duston, Northampton. Loam / sand.
Re: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2018, 12:07:50 »
Your knowledgeable comments about Physalis are much appreciated.  I, for one, have learned a lot and now better understand some of the results I've been seeing from my home grown and purchased Physalis.

Have a like!
Not mad, just out to mulch!

George the Pigman

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Birmingham, neutral clay soil
Re: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2018, 20:39:56 »
Just to clarify when you say Physalis do you mean the flower Chinese Lantern, Cape Gooseberry or Tomatillo which are all members of the Physalis genus . i grow the last two and treat them as annuals.

Vinlander

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,759
  • North London - heavy but fertile clay
Re: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2018, 13:44:31 »
Just to clarify when you say Physalis do you mean the flower Chinese Lantern, Cape Gooseberry or Tomatillo which are all members of the Physalis genus . i grow the last two and treat them as annuals.

That's a good point - I certainly use 2 of the three names you mention as if they exclude the Cape Gooseberry.

Mea Culpa - but:

Each of the 2 I do use describes a fairly limited range of species and using the common name creates very little ambiguity.

Cape Gooseberry is a particularly lousy name covering a much wider range of species. Neither word is accurate for what is normally a very sweet fruit (sweet enough to eat raw even when not entirely ripe) of several distinct species - none of which emerged from any significant cape - least of all the Cape of Good Hope.

Any attempt at distinguishing between the species by using other common names has failed - every time a new one emerges it gets used for all of them.

It would be easier to extend any of the 5 or 6 common names with what they aren't eg. "annual cape gooseberry/golden berry" for P. pruinosa; "cape gooseberry that doesn't taste of nail varnish" for P. mollis.

But the last one doesn't work because I don't know what the rest of the species taste like. Not to mention a slew of possible hybrids.

From now on if I'm too lazy to use binomials (and I'm always worried with Physalis that I've got them wrong) I will try to use either:

Physalis NTFF (not a tomatillo or a florists flower) or

Physalis ENT (edible but not tomatillo).

I prefer the latter but I'm open to ideas...

NB. I grew P. peruviana once about 41 years ago but I got very few fruit in the first year - I did enjoy them - though I thought that was despite them being only just ripe. It was a mild winter that year and the plant re-appeared from its rudimentary cold frame and gave me quite a few fruits - that was when I found the 'despite" should have been 'because' - I didn't like the "organic solvent" overtones of the ripe fruit or the "petrol headache" they gave me.

I wasn't bothered when the next winter killed it, and soon after I discovered the delights of the 100% annual P. pruinosa - which was also called P. pubescens at the time, though nowadays this only has limited acceptance in the form P. pubescens var. grisea - it's more cumbersome but it does try to recognise that the cultivated forms are significantly different from the wild ones.

George - this is interesting - are you getting decent yields from annual growth without using P. pruinosa? if so are you using overwintered cuttings? In my experience with P. mollis this is much better than relying on seedlings though not as good as doing what you can to molly :toothy10: coddle the old plant with drainage and mulch.

P. pruinosa is rarely more than 60cm high and wide, and tends to stand upright with a clear main trunk to about 50% high, closely branched to make a dense head, and only its lower branches on the ground. Occasionally I've seen a prostrate one but still dense, there's very little view of soil. Both the perennial species I've grown sprawl much more with many branches from nearly ground level which, given the opportunity, quickly droop to give a spidery look.

(I may be wrong about mollis - Davesgarden insists his photo of a very under-ripe fruit of  'Aunt Molly's' is Ground Cherry Physalis pubescens var. integrifolia - but I have more faith in the Polish sense of humour).

Cheers.

PS. "Kiwi fruit" is at least terse and has achieved widespread acceptance despite not looking like a kiwi (or tasting like one for that matter), and not coming from anywhere near NZ (though I can't put my hand on heart and say NZ has NO indigenous Actinidia species). At least "fruit" doesn't refer to something it's not - which is why I prefer it to "Chinese gooseberry"...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 13:52:39 by Vinlander »
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

George the Pigman

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 530
  • Birmingham, neutral clay soil
Re: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2018, 21:30:00 »
Hi Vinlander
I've grown the peruviana species for over 15 years in my greenhouse (unheated) and always had  a good crop from them but they never did well on the allotment.  i  tried the ground cherry type which was a creeping rather than erect variety like peruviana and it didn't do well either.
Tomatillos always do well on the allotment - provide the slugs don't get them when the heavy fruit's fall to the ground.

Vinlander

  • Hectare
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,759
  • North London - heavy but fertile clay
Re: Update on perennial Physalis (and pepinos)
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2018, 21:01:02 »
Hi Vinlander
I've grown the peruviana species for over 15 years in my greenhouse (unheated) and always had  a good crop from them but they never did well on the allotment.
Thanks George,

I get reasonable crops outdoors from my (not very prostrate) P. pruinosa - even useful amounts when there's no Indian Summer - so much so that I rarely leave one in the PT because doubling the yield doesn't justify the space they take.

They are a pain in one way - when I plant them earlier (even with LEDs) they do worse - I have to force myself to sow them as late as March or April and the April ones often do better than the March ones. Maybe I should try the March ones on a sunny windowsill - but I have a habit of forgetting stuff there - I really need a small capillary system on the sill - but SWMBO is a bit protective of her sills.

Have you tried rooting early to mid-season cuttings of P. peruviana? Just in water works well for P. mollis and the cuttings don't need more light than my NW facing sunroom - far from the ideal direction - though by spring they also get light from overhead around 1pm or 2pm.

If cuttings work they should boost your crop compared to seedlings (especially if you identify a good one) - and perennial Physalis ENT sprawl so much that layering them in soil May-July is an obvious thing to try next.

I suppose you might find the year#2 sprawling a pain...

I also had good results from doing a starve & bonsai on some seedlings to keep them manageable over their first Winter. Romped away after planting in the PT in early May. Still sprawled though.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

 

anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal