Author Topic: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?  (Read 4318 times)

ACE

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 08:37:54 »
It's a shame that because one person objects to the thread, the rest of us stop posting, I can usually see the way the thread is going by the title or by a few posts, I then move on if I don't like it. The 'ranters' were starting to give me a bigger insight to the problems I usually dismiss and although some were easily recognised as false news others gave me food for thought. I live in an area where quite a few different crops are grown, garlic, sweetcorn, tomatoes etc and most of the pickers speak a different language than I do. They are often referred to as Umpa Lumpas as they follow en masse after the reaping machinery in their orange overalls.


These crops still need a market, so instead of shipping them overseas and us shipping the same stuff from other countries, won't it even out? So we wait a week or so for new potatoes, tomatoes etc, lettuce grows on your windowsill. like it or not we are self sufficient. The work force will still be here on the same basic rate that 70% of the unskilled british workers are on at the moment. The workshy have been ousted with the introduction of universal credit so produce will still be harvested.  That is just us. Now the French, Spanish and Italian farmers are much more volatile than the walked over british, do you think they will put up with constraints on what they can sell us? No they will be up in arms and things will rapidly change back to normal.

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 11:42:28 »
But who is going to harvest British field crops if cheap eastern EU labour is no longer allowed in?   

In the past, my grandparents had their annual "hols" picking hops in Kent.  OH's mum and gran went fruit picking in Worcestershire for low pay but also free fruit.  That sort of thing is long gone and unemployed Brits won't be queuing up to do it as they seem to think such work is beneath them.

I think allotmenteers and home veg growers are going to be in a fortunate position.    The thing to do is grow veggies and fruit and salads that suit your taste buds as well as your soil and climate but maybe think a bit more about what is likely to more expensive or really needs to be eaten fresh and not left sitting in trucks for days as they wait border clearance. 

The other thing to bear in mind is the likely price hikes for carrots, onions and potatoes whose yields have all been badly affected by this summer's drought.  That will have a more immediate impact on your food costs this year.

Obxx - Vendée France

Beersmith

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 13:17:49 »
"unemployed Brits won't be queuing up to do it as they seem to think such work is beneath them"

I am sure this is true for some, but an idiotic benefits system makes it worse.  If you are unemployed and getting benefits then get a temporary job some or all of the benefits will stop. Rightly so. But once the temporary work runs out there is no immediate restoration of benefits. Re register as a job seeker, re apply for benefits. It can and often does mean a period without any income. A standard three day wait, then anything up to two weeks before any payment is made.

A well designed benefits system would encourage temporary work, as it reduces the burden on the tax payer
but in reality the one we have puts people off by giving them hassle, inconvenience and hitting them in the pocket after the temporary work is over.



Not mad, just out to mulch!

cambourne7

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2018, 14:37:31 »
It's a shame that because one person objects to the thread, the rest of us stop posting, I can usually see the way the thread is going by the title or by a few posts, I then move on if I don't like it. The 'ranters' were starting to give me a bigger insight to the problems I usually dismiss and although some were easily recognised as false news others gave me food for thought. I live in an area where quite a few different crops are grown, garlic, sweetcorn, tomatoes etc and most of the pickers speak a different language than I do. They are often referred to as Umpa Lumpas as they follow en masse after the reaping machinery in their orange overalls.


These crops still need a market, so instead of shipping them overseas and us shipping the same stuff from other countries, won't it even out? So we wait a week or so for new potatoes, tomatoes etc, lettuce grows on your windowsill. like it or not we are self sufficient. The work force will still be here on the same basic rate that 70% of the unskilled british workers are on at the moment. The workshy have been ousted with the introduction of universal credit so produce will still be harvested.  That is just us. Now the French, Spanish and Italian farmers are much more volatile than the walked over british, do you think they will put up with constraints on what they can sell us? No they will be up in arms and things will rapidly change back to normal.

Sorry are you suggesting that universal credit will mean the workshy as you call them will harvest the crops?? The same universal credit that has seen people who are working homeless on the street and schools having to open over holidays to feed hungry kids? Are you suggesting the kids help them harvest the crops?

cambourne7

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2018, 14:43:33 »
So i live in a rural area with lots of farms and a couple of years back on the news programs did an experiment where it took 6 out of work english people who said they would try anything and gave them a trail picking veg. Day one only 4 turned up on time one turned up late by a few hours and the other never arrived. By the end of the week they did a signifiant less amount of work and at the end of the experiment the farmer only offered the job to one who turned it down as it was to hard. This was 6 random long term unemployed people. If you think they will pick the veg think again. One of the businesses here which grows a lot of veg has now bought land is europe and is relocating some of the growing abroad. I see whole swathes of land now being sold for houses.

galina

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2018, 15:36:42 »
Now the French, Spanish and Italian farmers are much more volatile than the walked over british, do you think they will put up with constraints on what they can sell us? No they will be up in arms and things will rapidly change back to normal.

Not quite Ace.  Spain does not just export fruit and veg to UK, in fact it is only 13 percent and falling.  Rising are their exports to Germany, other EU countries and the Middle East.  'Up in arms' as you suggest or just remarketing their produce elsewhere.  Anything that can be sold within the EU and does therefore not need paperwork is clearly preferable to sending to more difficult markets that require customs checks, tariffs, truck delays over paperwork.  I am sure there will be a 'new normal' once things stabilise, but 'back to normal' will not happen outside of the Single Market.

And the discrepancy between how 'little' UK produces and how much needs to be imported does not mean that the two just cancel each other out.  Far from it.  Even during wartime, food supply ships ran huge risks being attacked by U-boats, because Dig for Victory could not make UK self sufficient in food.

The mantra of 'we will just drop all our tariffs and food will become much cheaper' is particularly dangerous, as it literally spells the death of UK agriculture and more external dependence and less food self sufficiency.

No doubt there will be a new normal eventually, in the meantime we are fortunate to have our growing spaces and can bridge a gap.  :wave: 

BarriedaleNick

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2018, 16:31:40 »
like it or not we are self sufficient.

No we are not.  We have never been self sufficient in modern times and we never will be.  30% of the food consumed in the UK is supplied by the EU at the moment.  I am not suggesting that this will stop but it is likely that it will become more expensive - we wont starve but people go hungry now and this will get worse.  The pond falling in value and tariffs are two of the main reasons that prices will or have risen.  Galina's point above shows that demand for food is rising and increased demand leads to higher prices. 
As I mentioned before this is not a one way street - we are entwined in the markets.  We import machinery, fertilisers, fuel and other imputs to agriculture.  If those prices rise then the costs of producing food rise too.  Labour is another problem (not the political party!) that looks set to push food prices higher.
Food price inflation is real - it is already happening.  What happens next depends on what sort of deal we get but one thing is clear.  It will not be better than what we already have.
Moved to Portugal - ain't going back!

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2018, 16:47:00 »
A recent report on EU farm subsidies shows that British farmers who receive EU CAP subsidies are fewer in number than the French but get paid more.  The loss of that funding is also going to have an effect on UK agriculture and what it can grow and how much it will cost when it gets to market.   

The UK hasn't been self-sufficient since the Industrial Revolution and the drive to improve production after the 2nd World War has transformed the landscape - ripping out hedgerows to create monoculture wheat/potatoes.cabbages etc - as well as killing off masses of wild flora and fauna form loss of habitat and use of chemicals but it' still not enough to feed everyone and there is no longer an empire to exploit for cheap and plentiful food supplies.

   
Obxx - Vendée France

gray1720

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2018, 17:38:29 »
I work for a European-owned company that does a considerable amount or work with European collaborators, in a field that has benefitted enormously from the existence of the EU as it has been criminally underfunded by government for decades and, as it works on a contract basis, has not got big cash  reserves.

So I'm planning which bit of the allotment the tentwill go on because if this debacle goes through I could be out of a job, a career, and a house. Picking veg? If I had to, but if you get cancer or some other such long-term condition, would you rather I was trying to find cures for it, or making sure you have lettuce?

Adrian
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ancellsfarmer

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2018, 21:02:19 »
I would not normally wish to (further) upset Peanuts but seeing as you have asked,
I would prefer, and expect, you to apply your skills and accumalated experience to further such research for a British company, to exploit the opportunities to market your results to benefit British and other free trading peoples and , furthermore, if the progress you bring is significant, to sell it widely within all world markets. Thereby creating prosperity and good life outcomes to all.

I believe you could produce lettuce, in sufficient quantities for your family, on weekends .
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2018, 10:34:40 »
All very well but can you name a British company employing British workers to find cures for British cancer?

Course not.  It's all about international collaboration and the British governments of all hues have already demonstrated that they lack the will and the imagination to invest in research and development in just about anything.   The loss of collective EU funding is going to have major repercussions.   International companies will take their research to countries where such funding is available and/or staff and other investment costs from buildings to materials are cheaper - somewhere in Asia with a well educated work force.
Obxx - Vendée France

gray1720

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2018, 13:43:16 »
Bang on, Obelixx. I'm currently reading about, amongst other things, international trade in Tudor England and wondering just how far back you have to go before Britain was able to stand on its own. Based on the Orkney Vole and it's genetic similarity to voles from Belgium I'd say that some people are trying to take us back at least 5000 years.

Adrian

My garden is smaller than your Rome, but my pilum is harder than your sternum!

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2018, 16:40:56 »
Well, we know the Romans came to get their hands on minerals they needed and they only knew those were there because of existing trade links for things like Cornish tin which was needed to make bronze weapons amongst other things.  They brought with them new ideas on building, heating, sanitation, roads and transport, all of which required investment in people and resources.

When they left, the British forgot how to make bricks, heat homes with CH, manage public baths and latrines, make roads..........

Dark Ages anyone?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 16:42:37 by Obelixx »
Obxx - Vendée France

Plot 18

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2018, 09:56:42 »
Do you really need to tell us whether you consider Brexit good or bad for us, do you think you impress with your point of view?
Enough is enough - I don't really need to know your opinion - in the same way that you don't really want to know mine. By now we've made up our own minds so it's pointless.

Sooo.... can we please just get back to gardening?

I know I can just not read the thread - but wonder why people think they have to keep going over and over the same points as if it is actually going to make a difference to what actually happens. Virtue signalling at it's best/worst :D

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2018, 10:12:25 »
We all have a right to express a point of view as long as we do it in reaonable, courteous language.  You don't have to read it.

Unfortunately, Brexit won't just affect the rice and/or availability of certain fruit and veggies.   I expect, if they don't get a good deal, it's going to have a knock-on effect on other essential gardening supplies such as tools, wood for sheds, aluminium for greenhouses, the tools we use every day and have to replace at some point..........   Seeds too?
Obxx - Vendée France

galina

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2018, 13:20:29 »
Plot 18, Dan has defined what can be talked about in the Shed as "Non allotment related general chit chat."  Therefore, here is the place to talk about none gardening topics, if that is where the conversation goes.  And yes, we may talk politics or indeed "impress" others with our knowledge outside gardening (your words!).  The moderator here is Dan and he has not stepped in as it has been mostly done respectfully and courteously. 

Whether the contributions answer the original question is another matter, but that is the old problem of thread drift and most of us are guilty of that from time to time.

:wave:
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 13:35:13 by galina »

pumkinlover

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2018, 13:45:31 »
 Brexit does have many implications which we cannot forsee both for ourselves and other people.  Some people therefore have very strongly held views, and others equally strong ones but  different.  Therefore the potential for discord  is greater than most of the subjects discussed of a non gardening nature.

So please all take care of each other and respect each others rights to hold different views. The original poster was asking ""Any one growing differently because of Brexit" so I respectfully suggest that the closer we stay to the original topic the more we will get out of the thread.



Elfeda

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2018, 14:22:33 »
I guess everyone trying to be closer to topic, underlying thoughts and reasons justify what can be grown in preference. for me I try to grow all these every year and see disasters for several reasons. now the various points highlighted herewith cautioning me to grow them with extra care and get decent crop for those. thank you all.

cambourne7

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2018, 10:00:35 »
Personally i am trying to grow more garlic, onions, beans and peas (not had much sucess). Will also consider growing more potatoes as well as getting in some additonal fruit plants in Feb. I will be looking at more winter crops for next year as well.

Obelixx

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Re: Anyone growing more or different stuff next year because of brexit?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2018, 10:48:24 »
Oddly, the range of winter brassicas here is very limited in supermarkets but there's a farmers' market where I can get things like kale and not just red, white, Savoy and pointy cabbage.

No cavolo nero anywhere, no spring greens nor purple sprouting and very little pak choi and its permutations.   I plan on growing those for our consumption.

As I said much earlier in this thread, allotmenteers and veg growers are fortunate in being able to grow what they especially like and/or what is already expensive or hard to find in the shops or is better eaten fresh from the ground and with the security of knowing what has and hasn't gone in to growing it.   
Obxx - Vendée France

 

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