Author Topic: Caught out by good clay soil.  (Read 1206 times)

Vinlander

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Caught out by good clay soil.
« on: September 30, 2018, 13:03:15 »
I was reading the Sweetcorn thread and BarriedaleNicks comment that his corn on clay was poorer than usual but others on free draining soil had better.

This highlighted an idea that's been incubating - those of us on good clay soils are used to watering plants until they are established and then no more - this is particularly useful with outdoor tomatoes that taste much stronger (to me - better) when they don't taste of water.

I suspect that people on light soil have a habit of watering everything regularly which would have stood them in good stead this year.

This last incredibly hot summer wasn't dry enough to kill my established seedlings but it definitely made them crop late and poorly - and by the time I'd noticed, I think some damage had already been done, because watering gave few benefits - probably too little too late.

I can't remember the last time I watered my fruit trees (except for the dripper on the cherry tree in my back garden - which is essential, especially with a dwarfing rootstock), and they seemed to be doing fine - until I noticed that the plums had set virtually no fruit, and what they had was being murdered by maggot even before it swelled. I have 7 trees but didn't get a single edible plum this year.

The apples looked OK until I noticed the June drop was late - and then it became an avalanche in August. Most of my trees are late-croppers (I hate the soft, sweet earlies), but on most of my 15 trees everything had dropped by the end of August, and what did hang until September was also maggoty so they kept falling, and they still are.

It's particularly annoying to learn this lesson in a dry year without a hosepipe ban  :BangHead: :BangHead:

Hopefully the trees will bounce back next year.

Cheers.

With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

Digeroo

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Re: Caught out by good clay soil.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 16:32:17 »
Aha.  now you know why I get stroppy at the - the plants will find water - brigade.

I have been watering almost everyday for almost 4.5 months.   Those of us who watered have done well those who didn't - devastation.   I have lost two apple trees and a blackcurrant bush.  I thought the established bushes would do ok.

Tee Gee

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Re: Caught out by good clay soil.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 16:59:42 »
Quote
Those of us who watered have done well those who didn't - devastation.

Quote
I suspect that people on light soil have a habit of watering everything regularly which would have stood them in good stead this year.

Sorry Guys but I have too disagree!  I have relatively light soil e.g I can push my spade into it without using my foot to push the spade in!

I never water plants outdoors in beds (containerised plants -  Yes!) and as you will have seen under my user name my soil is loamy so rich in humus due to digging in masses of manure each year, so I think this must have played a large part in me not having to water.

OK my Potatoes were poor by my standards i.e. numerous but relatively small. Brassicas were OK perhaps a little smaller but of sufficient size to feed me and the other half. Fruit was excellent!

On the same note my stuff in the greenhouses which were regularly watered have suffered as I mentioned here earlier in the season. Tomatoes performed poorly early in the season but improved once the weather cooled a bit. Lots of my Peppers suffered from bottom end rot but I think this was down to high humidity caused by the regular watering,warm temperatures  and possibly the plants being too close together and the air did not circulate around the plants enough.

On the whole I would have to say this has not been one of my productive years but generally the quality was quite good!

Add to this since July I have had very little interest in my allotment so I guess it did not receive the T.L.C. it is used to getting!

So considering everything I probably got what I deserved.

Sadly I did not go out on a high, but I am looking forward to see what 2019 will be like in my piecemeal veg growing in my garden at home!


ancellsfarmer

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Re: Caught out by good clay soil.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 18:27:46 »
I think the 3 above posts are all correct, but for differing reasons .
The well draining ground, typically chalky maybe with stones ,commonly known as 'brash' has the ability to allow surface precipitation to be absorbed  quickly, permeates to great depths, and if suitably structured, allows ground water to rise by capillary action to a level which plant roots may descend. Plants need establishing, to cushion the disruption of transplanting, and in the suitably structured soil, should then thrive.
Sandy soils act similarly but 'burn' carbon (as humus ) rapidly, their open texture due to larger particle size ,have less surface area for moisture and more oxygen.They need constant restocking with organic matter, which while decomposing (burning) holds available moisture as if a sponge.
Clay soils have smaller particle sizes, tend to concreate and crack as they dry but hold considerable amounts of water. They can readily form consolidated layers and historically have resulted in slates and shales.Otherwise they are fertile, rich in minerals and carry humus to good effect
Nature has a system, and by utilising dead plant material, compensates where possible to complete its work. Soils need this constant recycling of organic material. Deserts lack organic material ,consequently they struggle , due to erratic or non -existant rainfall, to recycle sufficiently.
I have previously refered to natures' system.The principle of no-dig mimics the forest floor. Regular, annual additions of copious amounts of organic material ensure that nature can complete its cycle. The one significant difference I have noticed (apart from no lower back strain!) , is the amount of root development that my crops make.Clearly this helps maximise their development and makes for good drought survival.
Let me show you a single celery raised intact. I believe the root structure is truly an endorsement of the system

Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

 

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