Topic: Potential plot questions

[davholla]

I have been offered a 60 square meter plot.
I am thinking of growing apple trees, gooseberries and a mulberry tree (all fine).
Questions
1) How much work would it be to set this up do you think?
2) What would be the best way to net the gooseberries (you can grow them in pots but you cannot eat them because netting them is very difficult)?
3) Best way to keep the weeds down?
4) How much work day to day?
5) I have all of these apple trees, gooseberries and a mulberry tree in pots, can I just plant them in the ground?  They seem healthy although the trees are not productive.  Or should I buy new ones?

My main concern is netting I hate DIY and this worries me a lot.

[Bill Door]

Hi davholla

Not sure I can answer all you questions as I am not sure what you want to set up.  So to plant out your trees will be about a day.

Not sure about the condition of your plot now but you could keep the weeds down with about an hour a day by just hoeing. I would suggest a mulch of bark or grass cuttings around the trees and gooseberries. It also depends on what you plant in the rest of the ground.  If you want something now then winter density lettuce and all year round will do.  You could also prepare the ground and sow a green manure.

I would suggest leaving planting out the trees and gooseberries until about October.  If the trees are of the "dwarf" variety then you could be ok size wise.  However, if they are much bigger then it might not be appropriate to put them in the plot.  You will have to look at the terms and conditions before you take it over.  Our terms say we can't have trees that take more than a year to produce fruit, some terms say that you can't have trees that grow more than 6 feet.  So you had better check.

As far as gooseberries are concerned I have previously purchased four wooden stakes that are taller than the goosberry bushes and placed them around the bushes and then drapped a net over the top.  Tie some stones to the edges of the net to hold them down and make sure that the centre of the net is held above the gooseberries (not drooping) and that has worked fine.  Be ware that the net could snag and may need extricating (sore fingers) at the end of the season.  when planting make the hole deep enough to add some compost and BFB or growmore.  If the rootball is mainly roots then tease a few out so that the roots can grow outwards in the hole.  Then water the plant in well and make sure it doesn't dry out!! (may not be needed as it could be a wet Autumn/Winter anyway.

Good luck
Bill

[davholla]

Thank you.
Isn't an hour a day quite a lot of hoeing? 
Where did you get the net from?  Why do you need to remove it at the end of the season?

[davholla]

PS
This
"As far as gooseberries are concerned I have previously purchased four wooden stakes that are taller than the goosberry bushes and placed them around the bushes and then drapped a net over the top.  Tie some stones to the edges of the net to hold them down and make sure that the centre of the net is held above the gooseberries (not drooping) and that has worked fine."
Sounds like something that even I can do, thanks a lot.

[davholla]

This
https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Play-Safe-Grade-Bark-Chippings---90L/p/114287

for £6 is not that much

[Bill Door]

An hour  a day soon goes by.  And it depends on what state the allotment is in.

Best to take off the netting so you can get to the bushes and prune them after the end of the season.  Plus you should allow birds etc. to get to the bugs that are on the bushes before they flower and fruit.

Wilkos, B & Q and most hardware stores have netting and probably have cheaper bark.

Bill

[Beersmith]

It is always a good idea to plan carefully, especially with things like bushes and trees which once in place are there for the long term. I don't have answers to all your questions but a few important issues did occur to me.

Firstly I think most types of mulberry get big, in time very big, maybe 30 feet or more. Your variety may be a dwarf type, but I would check carefully before planting.

Much the same applies to your Apple trees. Try to identify the rootstock.. Most modern allotments only allow trees on dwarfing stock like M27 or M9 and maybe M26. The good news is that apples should be fine with no netting or protection.  People sometimes report bud damage by birds in winter but I have never had any trouble,

Much as you may dislike DIY I fear your gooseberry bushes will not provide you with much fruit unless protected from pests.  In my locality, pigeons in particular, will strip the fruit from any unprotected bushes. I have a large fruit cage that covers my blackberries, redcurrants, blackcurrants, gooseberries and raspberries. A lot of work initially but it saves a huge amount of hassle netting bushes on an individual basis which can be very fiddly.

P.S. What Apple varieties are you growing??  Lots of superbly flavoured modern varieties are available.

[davholla]

Thanks for that, there is no restriction on fruit trees but I will only grow M27 or M9.
I have in pots Ashmead Kernel and Pixie.  If I get another tree it will probably be either/and James Greive or Rev Wilkes.


I already have the mulberry, I was told that it could grow in a pot, but it does not fruit (despite 7 years in the pot)!
It is probably this one
https://www.blackmoor.co.uk/products/12720#.W3rTzfLWaLU

[davholla]

PS I think I can net them now. Bill's advice is so simple that even I can do it!

[squeezyjohn]

The normal way to do an "orchard" section of an allotment is to clear a small area for each tree which you can keep weed free for the first few years, and designated beds for soft fruits like gooseberries.  Then either seed the rest of the area with grass, or if it's relatively grassy already just begin mowing regularly.  Regular mowing will slowly get rid of most weeds while allowing the grass to thrive.  It may be necessary to protect the bark of the trees from deer and rabbits with a protective collar.  Once the trees are fully established, you can allow the grass to grow all the way to the trunks.

Just in case the mulberry doesn't work out, there is a new variety doing the rounds which is a dwarf variety that fruits even in its first year (and delicious fruit they are too!) ... it can be grown like a soft fruit instead of a tree and is called Morus Rotundiloba - it's being marketed as mojo berry. It's quite expensive, but seems to propagate easily by taking cuttings ... so my one plant will hopefully be 6 or 7 next year!

[davholla]

The normal way to do an "orchard" section of an allotment is to clear a small area for each tree which you can keep weed free for the first few years, and designated beds for soft fruits like gooseberries.  Then either seed the rest of the area with grass, or if it's relatively grassy already just begin mowing regularly.  Regular mowing will slowly get rid of most weeds while allowing the grass to thrive.  It may be necessary to protect the bark of the trees from deer and rabbits with a protective collar.  Once the trees are fully established, you can allow the grass to grow all the way to the trunks.

Just in case the mulberry doesn't work out, there is a new variety doing the rounds which is a dwarf variety that fruits even in its first year (and delicious fruit they are too!) ... it can be grown like a soft fruit instead of a tree and is called Morus Rotundiloba - it's being marketed as mojo berry. It's quite expensive, but seems to propagate easily by taking cuttings ... so my one plant will hopefully be 6 or 7 next year!

Thanks for that, the best way to keep it weed free, presumably wood chip or glass cutting mulch?

[squeezyjohn]

A thick mulch of wood chips around the tree will keep the weed competition away for 2 years or so, but will need replacing after it has composted down enough for seedlings to germinate in it.  Grass cuttings mulch will compost much quicker than that.  You will also need to make sure all perennial weed roots are removed from the place you're planting the trees as you won't be able to dig them out later.

[compothefirst]

Metal fencing posts are useful when netting gooseberries.  I find them easier to bash into the ground than wooden posts and they don't rot.

[Tee Gee]

As a suggestion you could go to the alphabetical index on my website then go to the plant/s you require info on.

Plus if you go to the letter A and look for allotments you will get some info where to start.

Then if you go into my gallery you will find a slideshow showing " A typical year on my allotments"

Click on the link at the foot of this reply to connect to the website

Hope this helps!

[Beersmith]

Couple of minor additional issue. Unless there are other apple trees in the vicinity, note that Rev Wilks is not an ideal pollinator for Ashmeads Kernel or Pixie, and vice versa. Wilks is an early flowering variety and the other two are late flowering. Another possible issue, Rev Wilks does show a tendency to become very biennial (only giving a good crop every second year). One final thing - M27 rootstock will do best under mulch rather than being grassed. Stronger rootstock can cope with grassing but M27 needs to be mollycoddled.

[Beersmith]

Oops a daisy.

I'd forgotten that Rev Wilks is partly self fertile.  Better to have a pollination partner, but will still set fruit without one.

Cheers

[davholla]

Couple of minor additional issue. Unless there are other apple trees in the vicinity, note that Rev Wilks is not an ideal pollinator for Ashmeads Kernel or Pixie, and vice versa. Wilks is an early flowering variety and the other two are late flowering. Another possible issue, Rev Wilks does show a tendency to become very biennial (only giving a good crop every second year). One final thing - M27 rootstock will do best under mulch rather than being grassed. Stronger rootstock can cope with grassing but M27 needs to be mollycoddled.

Thanks for that, can you think of any good cookers which would be a good partner?  Saying that there are other apple trees in the area.  I have not decided what root stock to use yet.

[Beersmith]

Thanks for that, can you think of any good cookers which would be a good partner?  Saying that there are other apple trees in the area.  I have not decided what root stock to use yet.

Alas I don't have much knowledge about culinary varieties. Newton Wonder are good but the tree nearly always goes biennial. Annie Elizabeth have a reputation for being the best keepers. You could consider sticking with your original idea and go for James Grieve, a good dual purpose Apple.

As for rootstock, I am a fan of M9. Small enough to allow several trees on even a modest sized allotment plot, so you can have several different varieties. But strong enough to crop well and an ideal mature size so you never need step ladders for harvesting. 

But why not spend a few hours on line.  " Orange pippin" are sellers but their site is a mine of information about types, pollination, growing habits etc. Apple trees are a long term project so well worth spending time getting it right from the off.