Author Topic: Purple Shiraz peas  (Read 497 times)

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Purple Shiraz peas
« on: July 10, 2018, 18:54:08 »
Saw these in the Kings catalogue and thought they'd make a nice change for some salad flat peas. They were really easy to grow, good crop, so easy to pick and ornamental, of course - what a shame they don't taste of anything, and are tough as old boots. Anyone agree, or is this peculiar to my conditions do you think?

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Purple Shiraz peas
« on: July 10, 2018, 18:54:08 »

Paulh

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2018, 20:26:10 »
I've grown them for a few seasons and found them to be a good mangetout, provided they are well watered. I pick them small - before the peas are showing through - and they are tender. To be honest, I'm not sure that mangetout taste of much other than a little pea and a little sugar and they are as good as the ordinary mangetout on that score!

galina

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 06:59:25 »
I far prefer Sugar Magnolia to Shiraz.  For flavour.  And my goodness they need watering in this weather.  This is too hot by far for peas. 

I am also growing Shiraz this year, but they are struggling.  I have them mainly for seed renewal and leaving pods on until the seeds are ripe slows production right down and the weather does not help.   :wave: 

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 14:21:21 »
I've kept them rigorously picked over to keep the crop going, shan't bother leaving any for seed. I'll use what's still in the packet next year, because I am mean, but then it's back to Carouby de Maussane, they are the nicest I've ever grown. Unless of course this beastly summer decides me to give up growing altogether!

Vinlander

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 11:50:19 »
They are as good as any other mangetout for me (though I misplaced the packet this year so I've never tried them in heat).

The pods are a lot easier to find than green ones - quick picking, colourful salads, and if I really want flavour I grow snaps instead - living in hope of a good red or yellow snap soon!

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

galina

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2018, 04:43:43 »


The pods are a lot easier to find than green ones - quick picking, colourful salads, and if I really want flavour I grow snaps instead - living in hope of a good red or yellow snap soon!

Cheers.

Opal Creek is available commercially:  https://www.thompson-morgan.com/p/pea-opal-creek-sugarsnap/tm80803TM

I'm working on a good red as are a few people.  There was a red mangetout available apparently from a Dutch small seed seller last year, but when I came across them they were listed as sold out. 


:wave:
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 04:46:23 by galina »

Vinlander

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 10:03:10 »
Quote
author=galina link=topic=81897.msg825888#msg825888 date=1531629823
Opal Creek is available commercially:  https://www.thompson-morgan.com/p/pea-opal-creek-sugarsnap/tm80803TM

Yellow Opal Creek looks suspiciously like the "Elizabethan yellow mangetout" that I grew years ago - if anyone was going to try and sell a 400+ year-old variety as a novelty then I'd expect the wrynair of seedsmen to do it!

They describe it as "the first yellow podded sugarsnap pea available to gardeners", well if it appeared half a millennium ago then that would be true!

It has the same lack of a wing that stops it being a normal mangetout, and the same translucent thin pod that stops it being a proper snap pea - they are tender edible pods though, so it's true that you can eat the whole thing.

Unfortunately the EYM is round seeded and a bit starchy (when ripe) - no indication what T&M's version is - they say they are sweet  -  but as they have cleverly shown very immature pods (with no scale to show they are only 3-4cm long) then they will be sweet.

Shiraz is definitely better in my book.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

galina

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2018, 05:52:15 »


Yellow Opal Creek looks suspiciously like the "Elizabethan yellow mangetout" that I grew years ago - if anyone was going to try and sell a 400+ year-old variety as a novelty then I'd expect the wrynair of seedsmen to do it!

They describe it as "the first yellow podded sugarsnap pea available to gardeners", well if it appeared half a millennium ago then that would be true!

It has the same lack of a wing that stops it being a normal mangetout, and the same translucent thin pod that stops it being a proper snap pea - they are tender edible pods though, so it's true that you can eat the whole thing.

Unfortunately the EYM is round seeded and a bit starchy (when ripe) - no indication what T&M's version is - they say they are sweet  -  but as they have cleverly shown very immature pods (with no scale to show they are only 3-4cm long) then they will be sweet.

Shiraz is definitely better in my book.

Cheers.

Goldensweet is the only known yellow pea of old and the one that Mendel worked with.  It is a slightly starchy yellow mangetout which was definitely in Opal Creek's ancestry.  Whether Goldensweet is Elisabethan I don't know, but I don't suppose the seed seller did either.  It is however not the same as Opal Creek.  Opal Creek was bred by Alan Kapuler and is a cross between Sugarsnap and Goldensweet.  It is not a mangetout but a snap pea, shorter than Goldensweet and fatter podded than the flat mangetout.  It is often sickle shaped which Goldensweet isn't.  I wish seed companies would give due recognition to the breeder., especially where the breeder gave it freely to the community, without patent and royalties.  T&M are particularly bad at that. 

Opal Creek is white flowering and Goldensweet purple flowering.  Whether you prefer Shiraz or not is up to your tastebuds, but don't compare it to Goldensweet (which is the only yellow podded old variety around) as it is different. 

We exchanged seeds of Opal Creek in the seed circle.  Photo about 2/3 down the page.
http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/seed-circle-2012/
:wave:
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 06:10:58 by galina »

galina

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2018, 10:12:37 »

Unfortunately the EYM is round seeded and a bit starchy (when ripe) - no indication what T&M's version is - they say they are sweet  -  but as they have cleverly shown very immature pods (with no scale to show they are only 3-4cm long) then they will be sweet.

Shiraz is definitely better in my book.


Do try the Sugar Magnolia Vinlander, it is purple like Shiraz, a snap pea and I bet you'll love the flavour too.  :wave:

Paulh

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2018, 21:02:40 »
I've quite liked the Opal creek - sweet and crisp - but they've been rather small. I'll try them again next year, sowing early and hoping for better growing weather!

Certainly, having green, purple and yellow mangetout is a hit!

Vinlander

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2018, 09:08:08 »
Do try the Sugar Magnolia Vinlander, it is purple like Shiraz, a snap pea and I bet you'll love the flavour too.  :wave:

It does look good - the bi-colour flowers and  the mass of tendrils are a bonus - looks like I may have to release some moths from my wallet. Also POD have always been a class act so far (though with prices to suit) - they have some other stuff I want (and Opal Creek) to take some of the sting out of the P&P.

BTW I have been completely won over by their Physalis Aunt Molly - it has none of the petrol overtones of shop physalis, plus lovely creamy undertones (I'd say coconut cream). One of my 2 plants survived last winter in the border of the polytunnel, and is already producing edible fruits (a bit sharper than fully mature ones will be but still a treat). A big bonus is that though it's much too big to move indoors (2m wide, nearly as tall), summer cuttings root well in water so you can keep small plants on a windowsill over winter as an insurance policy - they will probably inherit the maturity of the parent and fruit quicker than seedlings - I'll find out next year - they are going into their own big cloche next year - they are a bit too thuggish for the PT (once I've got a productive plant outside the PT, I will move the PT one too).

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

galina

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2018, 14:16:11 »
Never thought of taking cuttings and overwintering physalis, but why on earth not.  Could it also work for tomatillo? - although cuttings from two different plants would be needed.   Watching your reports with interest, Vinlander.   :icon_cheers:

Vinlander

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Re: Purple Shiraz peas
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2018, 09:16:04 »
It's hard to guess what will root in water and what won't - if a pattern is emerging it's that all Solanum relatives are worth a try, and having said that I may try aubergines next - overwintering on a windowsill would be a lot easier than keeping big pots frost-free though it can work for them, especially for African and Turkish types.

I just had success with a runner bean seedling that got damaged or just rotted at the roots. The whole stem looked good (about 15cm at the time) so I just dropped it in with some tom shoots - it perked up in water though it took some weeks to root (I wasn't taking notes) but it produced a few 3cm roots so I potted it yesterday in damp light compost. It would have been quicker to just plant another seed, but it's the challenge!

I've been rooting tomato shoots for decades, but eventually I got into casting the net wider - mainly because I always root a few seedless hybrid grape cuttings in tall pots in November.  Maybe 10-40% sprout in spring. I gave one plant to a neighbour and he asked if he could root his own just in water. I tried it and it worked well with Himrod but my other hybrid vines wouldn't budge - maybe its because they have more V. labrusca in them - their more intense flavours suggest this.

Sadly I've had no success with some other perennial plants I'd love to grow from cuttings - neither strawberry guava (red or yellow), nor with C. pubescens chillies - and grafting is such a faff for anything that has decent roots of its own...

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

 

anything