Topic: Purple Sprouting and Blue Debris Netting

[Digeroo]

I had three patches, two I covered with blue debris netting.  The difference is amazing.  Those under the netting are looking great and currently producing good amounts of flower heads.  The patch under normal netting is mostly dead, only one plant has done well and a few scruffy very small ones, and this was my main patch!   The others I was not sure of the netting over the winter.  I just threw it over the plants with no support and put a few pots of soil around the edges to keep it down.  I did not expect it to survive but it is brilliant.   Thought it might blow off, or the plants would break if it got covered in snow.   But it certainly survived the snow.  They were Moles early.  Guy on the next plot who had F1 types lost all of his.   
However all the Russian Kale has done well and the flower heads can be used in the same way as purple sprouting.  They need to put some of its genes in the purple sprouting.   Though that warm weather got it excited.

[galina]

Congratulations Digeroo!

Broccoli = brassica oleracea and Russian kale = brassica napus.

Not sure they are able to cross in nature.

Is the point you are making blue vs other colour netting?  Not sure what the other person used.  Or do you think it is a case of better choice of cultivar?   

  

[ancellsfarmer]

Suspect it was due to the micro climate enjoyed beneath the (finer) debris netting. Could be just a few degrees warmer, to beat the B(east). Any evidence of relative difference in debris netting colour would be welcome.

[Digeroo]

It seems to be that under the netting it is a little warmer or perhaps sheltered from Mr North West Wind esquire.  I had some great PSB a few years ago but since then very iffy.  Was trying the ordinary Moles type to see if it was more winter hardy. 
It does seem to be the debris netting that is the answer, I bought blue and I was given a piece of blue, I do not know if another colour would have been better or worse.  The other netting is normal black netting but you can hardly see it, so presume the wind gets straight through it.  I was concerned that during the winter the debris netting would cut out too much light.   Or that as it was not supported the stems would break, or it would simply blow off.  But the results from a simple toss it over are very tasty indeed.
So the point is the debris netting v other types of netting.  But also no supporting hoops.   Which in the past have not been high enough for the size of PSB.  This time the plants simply pushed up the netting.
I was staying in Redditch during the Beast so have no idea how that effected my plot.
Russian Kale also oleracea.   So it might cross with PSB
https://www.rhs.org.uk/Plants/135057/Brassica-oleracea-(Acephala-Group)-Red-Russian/Details
Brassica napus seems to be rape.

[galina]

There seems to be a difference of opinion according to who you ask  :  http://www.seedambassadors.org/all-about-russian-siberian-kale-napus-kale/

I hope it is b oleracea and that it will cross for you.   

[johhnyco15]

i use white debris netting as i believe  the white reflects light around making the plants less "leggy"  and in my opinion  it is warmer under debris netting not by much but just enough the only draw back i can find is white fly no predators can get in to keep them under control so in late summer i change to normal nets which let  ladybirds etc thru. to keep population of white fly under control hope this helps

[galina]

There seems to be a difference of opinion according to who you ask  :  http://www.seedambassadors.org/all-about-russian-siberian-kale-napus-kale/

I hope it is b oleracea and that it will cross for you.   

It gets weirder:  Just reading up on perennial kales flowering (because my variegated Daubentons is flowering for the first time ever) and found this:
 
http://alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/4341/hard-believe-daubenton-flowering?page=3

" From as I understand it Western Front is mostly a Red Russian genetic background with Brassica rapa crossed back in. Just for the record Red Russian's genetics are (Brassica oleracea x Brassica rapa) x Brassica nigra. Some varieties of Brassica napus (which includes Red Russian) have perennial traits some do not."

Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_of_U

 

[ancellsfarmer]

I have green debris netting; a 'gift' from a neighbouring chicken keeper. Its now done 5 seasons and is getting a little ragged (abrasion from posts before I reasoned a plastic flowerpot would save it).This season I have bought black, hopefully less visible at distance. The best of the green re- used on homebuilt cloche frames-dutch cruck style*, to cover smaller plants in 1.4m unitsx600mmwidth, 450mm headroom.Cut from free plywood 12mm from crates and using 1.4m 32mm square baton,simply nailed into end grain.Cut at home, transported and assemblied on site.They also 'nest' for storage and, so far ,have proved to be heavy enough to resist  wind lift.
 Also using on some,1000g polythene, and on lower sized  (offcuts), weed fabric for initial protection of seedings.All coverings applied with HD stapler.
 Now have 18 cloches of various coverings in use. More in production!
*not quite so heavy as attachment!!

[cudsey]

I have bought green debris netting this year and have used it to cover my potatoes and onions and a some salad seeds that I have sown,   good light is getting through so once there is no chance of any more frosts I will lift it but it seems to be working ok 

[galina]

Where do you buy the debris netting please? 

[johhnyco15]

Where do you buy the debris netting please? 

       i get mine from scaffold direct online one tip get the 3mtr wide one as the 2mtr is a little tight  when giving decent height to covers for larger crops like sprouts etc hope this helps

[MervF]

I bought some 2m green debris netting from Tarpaflex, (01409 221192), www.tarpaflex.co.uk and it is really nice strong netting.   One of my allotment neighbours also bought some and he is really pleased as well.   

[Digeroo]

It would seem that what ever the genetics of the Russian kale is that it might be persuaded to cross with the PSB.  I will play bee and give it a try.   The genetics of brassicas is very complicated I have come across the Triangle of U before.  My Russian Kale is certainly not perennial.  It is self sown.  Each year I leave some to go to seed.  It choses when to plant the seeds.  The only surviving perennial Kale I have is the variegated one, the rest have died off. 

The Russian kale certain survives the winter without netting. The plants are finer so the pigeons do not sit on it.  As flowering stems it is just a good as PSB.  As soon as it shows a hint of a yellow flower it goes tough and stringy.   I steam at butter and pepper, and serve with a fried egg on top.  Delicious!!   It produces huge amount of seed too.

I think perhaps the biggest advantage of the debris netting may be wind protection.  I did initially have an issue with those blue aphids, but I sprayed it with stinging nettle tea.  For aphids I soak the nettles for about three or four days.  The liquid looks a bit like weak tea before the leave start to rot.  It has a pleasant sweet smell at that stage.