Author Topic: Carbon footprint of allotments  (Read 6644 times)

caroline7758

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Carbon footprint of allotments
« on: August 07, 2017, 09:43:26 »
We may have had this discussion before, but I was interested to read, in this article from last week's Observer https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jul/29/saving-britains-food-supply-manifesto-jay-rayner, Jay Rayner saying "Allotments are good for mental wellbeing and general fitness, but the carbon footprint of the food produced tends to be appalling." What do you think?

DrJohnH

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 10:10:18 »
I found this interesting- there are ways to reduce one's footprint:

https://www.growveg.co.uk/guides/the-carbon-footprint-of-gardening/?redir

Maybe worth a look...

caroline7758

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 13:05:30 »
That makes me feel better. Apart from using pelleted chicken manure, I do pretty well. I wonder if pelleted manure produces more or less methane than fresh?

BarriedaleNick

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 15:55:02 »
but the carbon footprint of the food produced tends to be appalling." What do you think?

Well I'd like to see some actual figures for allotments rather than an unsubstantiated claim but I guess it really depends on how you garden..
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DrJohnH

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 16:15:30 »
but the carbon footprint of the food produced tends to be appalling." What do you think?

Well I'd like to see some actual figures for allotments rather than an unsubstantiated claim but I guess it really depends on how you garden..

I can't help but think that allotment growers themselves eat far more seasonally, so that would cut the food miles a lot.  Also keeping land under cultivation rather than developing the space as a built up area improves local biodiversity etc...

OK maybe if you plant 5 acres of farmland under carrots that is more "carbon efficient" than a couple of rows in a lottie, but how can you compare the two like for like?  Pure carbon footprint may be lower for the 5 acres- but is that not missing the bigger picture entirely?

More food for thought (excuse the pun!)

I just looked in the comments from the original article and saw this also:

https://ourworld.unu.edu/en/home-growing-produces-ten-times-the-food-of-arable-farms
 

galina

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 12:59:55 »
They did not explain why allotment vegetables should have an appalling carbon footprint. 

I guess if you use a lot of petrol driven machinery and tap water and drive to the allotment every day and all this is counted into the numbers, then it might not be as 'green' to grow our own as we like to think.  But as manure is not produced specifically for fertiliser - it is a by product of animal rearing - the methane effects of such manure cannot be laid at allotment grower's door! 

If peat bogs are good carbon sinks, why is peat that gardeners put into the ground not?  I know this is 'devil's advocate' speak, (peat bogs are still being depleted and gardeners are the culprits), but I have never been able to find out why peat is only doing this in peat bogs? 

I suspect (don't have any numbers to hand though) that if you take an average of all allotmenteers, their use of chemicals and bought fertiliser is much lower than in agriculture.  Simply because farmers must get a guaranteed income from their monoculture.  Mixed cultures like allotments are higher yielding and most allotment produce looks less perfect than supermarket produce.  This all points to lower chemical input.  Also most allotments use as much homemade compost as they have, not something that is available to farmers in the same quantity. 

For those reasons I doubt that allotment vegetables are terrible for carbon footprint. 

The other points made in the article are quite compelling though.  See also here, in the latest HDRA/Garden Organic newsletter:   http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/news/food-brexit-briefing-document-published?dm_i=4UO,52HWK,JCKJR,JEBRR,1
:wave:   
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 13:15:27 by galina »

Digeroo

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 13:33:53 »
I do drive to my allotment it is just over a mile.  But other I do not understand why my carbon foot print should be appalling.  If I did not drive to the allotment I would probably be driving somewhere else. 
I use a lot of manure but barrow it onto the plot.   The farmer uses some fuel to dump it closer to us. 
I do use blood fish and bone, but rather presume these are by products.
I use a lot less packaging.  The veg are transported in a bucket.
I thought that allotments reduced your carbon foot print.

Someone posted a comment
Quote
I'd like to have seen an explanation for the appalling carbon fort print of allotment food. Any ideas
There was response which stated that they could not find any study of this.

I use a lot of manure and my soil is high in biomatter so I am locking carbon in. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-powers-for-the-green-fingered-to-protect-allotments

This states
Quote
We are always being told to be environmentally friendly and to reduce our carbon footprint wherever we can and allotments can go a long way in helping us achieve that.

I found this interesting

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0ahUKEwjElYWC2sfVAhVDIVAKHVYoCHkQFghQMAc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sags.org.uk%2Fdocs%2FReportsPresentations%2FCarbonReductionBriefing.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGlHY7JTGvuwdJ9xrNkFQ-p25J3Ig



« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 14:12:03 by Digeroo »

Pescador

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 15:03:30 »
Some very interesting reading there, although the poor carbon footprint must be highly debatable.
However the danger of post brexit food supply is clear, it's just a great shame a lot of people didn't think of the bigger picture before the referendum.
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Plot 18

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 15:40:28 »
Please don't start discussing the whys and wherefores of the referendum vote.
I come on gardening forums to avoid all the arguments about why people voted the way they did, because they so obviously got it wrong - according to some  :violent1:

Swiftly moving on..
Just bring back the 'Dig for Victory' ethos, growing most of our own food locally should put a stop to us allotmenteers worrying about future food supply.
 
Just saying  :toothy10:


johhnyco15

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 17:02:18 »
i walk to my plot most days only taking the car when harvesting my is zero tax so low co2  i compost or trench everything green i do use comfry and pigeon poo as my fertilizer again sum of miles 14 to get said poo i try to use low peat or no peat compost water is from a  well or harvested rain water i grow all my flowers from seed and try to overwinter as much as i can collect my own seed never heat my green house i do use rotted manure however its there anyway so the co2 is the same  and this is my  real point if i was not on my allotment id be doing something else that would be far less carbon neutral  and i wouldnt be as healthy more strain on the nhs i think its all bonkers live well live long and enjoy your allotment for the little time we are on this planet  happy gardening to all
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

ed dibbles

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 17:40:23 »
Any methane produced from a few chicken pellets, caroline7758, is miniscule compared to how much methane is produced by a herd of cows over a year. Or even a bus load of humans.  :happy7:

All the home grown produce goes a long way to offset any carbon footprint, assuming there is actually  a need to! :icon_study: Nothing one individual can do will have any impact anyway so I wouldn't worry. Just enjoy your plotting.

No-one is forced to allotmenteer from the garden centre.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2017, 19:59:52 »
Three part action to reduce your score
1)Grow larger crops and bigger weeds (more carbon absorbtion.)
2)Off-set for all you give away(off your score- their guilt not yours)
3)Dont walk in the onions' soot(no carbon footprints(!)
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

PondDragon

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 00:14:36 »
If peat bogs are good carbon sinks, why is peat that gardeners put into the ground not?  I know this is 'devil's advocate' speak, (peat bogs are still being depleted and gardeners are the culprits), but I have never been able to find out why peat is only doing this in peat bogs?
On this specific point, peat in bogs doesn't decay because it's permanently waterlogged which keeps the oxygen level very low. Bog plants don't grow very fast, but the rate of decay is even slower so over time (1000s of years) the peat builds up. When peat soils are drained, or the peat is dug up and applied to gardens, it's no longer waterlogged and begins to decay back to CO2. A small % might survive long term as additional soil organic matter, but most of it will eventually disappear. There are parts of the fens where the soil level has dropped by several metres following drainage, as the peat soil has gradually oxidised away.

Digeroo

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 06:31:45 »
Jay Rayner was asked on Twitter
Quote
Can u elaborate on why allotments have 'appalling carbon footprint'

Answer
Quote
Because even a successful allotment has a tiny yield per person hours compared to a conventional farm.

I am not sure how that affects the carbon footprint. 

Digeroo

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 08:20:07 »
Does Mr Rayners knows the difference between carbon foot prints and actual foot steps?

ed dibbles

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 09:47:18 »
Another idiot know all 'expert' who knows nothing! :BangHead:

galina

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 09:55:18 »

On this specific point, peat in bogs doesn't decay because it's permanently waterlogged which keeps the oxygen level very low. Bog plants don't grow very fast, but the rate of decay is even slower so over time (1000s of years) the peat builds up. When peat soils are drained, or the peat is dug up and applied to gardens, it's no longer waterlogged and begins to decay back to CO2. A small % might survive long term as additional soil organic matter, but most of it will eventually disappear. There are parts of the fens where the soil level has dropped by several metres following drainage, as the peat soil has gradually oxidised away.

Thank you Pond Dragon makes perfect sense.  :wave:

ACE

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 21:19:59 »
One of the nasty things we use is fleece, I said it before somewhere, but it does deteriorate into tiny strands which then gets blown into waterways and in my case the sea. This is a lot of the plastic detritus  that is contaminating our oceans. As for methane, shall I mention  artichokes or just beans, it is only the wind that is holding my halo up. Wellies, bonfires, two stroke machinery, forging tools, fuel miles for a packet of seed is the same as a packet of crisps loads of stuff if you really want to feel guilty.  Give up the crisps and feel smug.

Digeroo

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 21:43:02 »
I have to admit my allotment has an appalling carbon footprint, I use the money I save from buying food to holiday in Egypt in the January sunshine.

Silverleaf

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Re: Carbon footprint of allotments
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 22:22:00 »
Apart from the hosepipe and fetching horse manure and compost in the car, I think my garden's pretty good. I compost what I can, don't use artificial fertilisers/pesticides/herbicides or machinery, save a lot of my own seeds and I don't have to walk far to get there!

Even with the manure/compost transport and hosepipe and the "seed miles" for seeds I don't produce myself, a bunch of carrots grown in my garden has to be better for the world than one that's grown hundreds or thousands of miles away in a monoculture.

 

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