Author Topic: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass  (Read 2158 times)

George the Pigman

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Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« on: April 24, 2017, 21:43:04 »
The back quarter of my allotment has always been reserved for fruit. I have strawberries, two apple trees a number of blackcurrant bushes and blackberries (one trailing and one bush). These do well. I also have a few struggling raspberry bushes and currently a dead looking small gooseberry bush.
One constant a battle I have though is with couch grass. After twenty five years on the plot I have managed to more or less get it cleared from the non-fruit part of the plot. But several times I have dug it out of the fruit area only for it to come back with a vengeance.
Having visited a few commercial fruit farms recently I noticed they simply let the grass grow and just mow/strim it as necessary. However they do make sure that there is a grass free area around the plants. So I have decided to live with it. But if I dig and area around my raspberries etc how do I stop the grass encroaching?
Any ideas/experiences would be gratefully recives
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 21:45:22 by George the Pigman »

Plot 18

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2017, 22:52:32 »
I know not everyone agrees with its use, but I spray glyphosate on the couch around my raspberries.
I have cut the bottom off a big water bottle which I place over the grass clumps and spray through the top opening. This makes sure none gets onto the fruit bushes - only onto the grass inside the bottle.
I do this once a year, early in the season, but when it is clear where the new growth is, so I can avoid it. Lasts for the year here.

Jayb

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2017, 08:30:44 »
My little fruit patch has gotten away from me the last couple of years and is fast becoming a weedy jungle (a little couch, nettle etc). I'm thinking I'm going to cut strim weeds as best I can, mulch with grass clippings, and then cover with thick black weed-control membrane. I doubt it will kill the couch but it should bring it up to the surface making it easier to pull up in a year to eighteen months. Probably not so useful for you as it sounds you have more of a plague of couch. what about weed suppressant disks around your fruit trees. Would a lined trench backfilled with clean compost or earth work for the raspberries?
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Digeroo

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2017, 16:56:29 »
I have blackcurrant beside a path which contains couch so very prone to couch.  I am simply ruthless.  As soon as it has a hint of a blade of green I hoe it off.    I am currently winning.    I also put rhubarb leaves under gooseberries I think these discourage the couch.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2017, 19:52:53 »
I know not everyone agrees with its use, but I spray glyphosate on the couch around my raspberries.
I have cut the bottom off a big water bottle which I place over the grass clumps and spray through the top opening. This makes sure none gets onto the fruit bushes - only onto the grass inside the bottle.
I do this once a year, early in the season, but when it is clear where the new growth is, so I can avoid it. Lasts for the year here.
I agree. Previously you could have used dalapon but now its not approved in Europe. Still ok in Australia, which may be where your couch has spread from!!
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

johhnyco15

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2017, 20:38:16 »
id scalp the top 3 inches to weaken the roots then if any comes back get the weed killer out i  scalped my new plot which was solid couch its now my onion bed and nothing has come back 
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

Beersmith

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2017, 22:11:54 »
If it has been a fruit area for a long long time, maybe the Raspberries are getting towards the end of their productive life. It can vary, and raspberries can last for 12 years, but sometimes deterioration can set in by about year 7 or 8.

Maybe your best option would be to divide the fruiting area. Mature apples on good root stock can probably cope with a bit of couch, as might the blackberry and blackcurrants.  But strawberries also do best if moved every few years.

Why not start new raspberries​ and strawberries on clean ground?  You'd have the chance to clean up the area they vacate, which might help a bit. And without competition the new bed would probably thrive.

Also Round up gel wiped very carefully onto the couch grass will kill it in time.  If done carefully it should have no impact on anything growing in the vicinity.
Not mad, just out to mulch!

Vinlander

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 11:37:39 »
My most successful method of controlling couch is to dig a trench around the bed 1 spit deep and fill it with woodchip (it will not steal nitrogen because the contact area to the soil is absolutely minuscule compared to digging it through). For trees use heavy black plastic over the whole area inside and tight up to the trunks. 1 piece per trunk with big overlaps will let you remove it easily to get in to clear the trunks - I've even wrapped and tied the plastic tightly around apple trunks without any ill effects - but the collar shouldn't cover too much bark - 5cm seems ideal.

Woodchip works as a lure - the couch grass invades it in preference to where it was. It never goes deeper because it just loves the chip.

But it is so easy to fork out you could do it with your fingers.  About 5 minutes per metre tops. Obviously you need to get as much couch out of the tree roots as possible first, and to exhaust what's in with your tree/s it's a good idea to fork the chip twice a year - 10 minutes per metre per year.

New tree roots will invade it too, but they can be cut off without harming the tree - they are used to going deeper.

A bit of initial work followed by easy but regular vigilance and hardly any work.

Cheers.

PS. The best way to kill couch roots safely is to knock the roots clean-ish & put them on a mesh that's off the ground (a couple of bricks). Stone dead and crispy in a week in summer, a fortnight tops in winter.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

small

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2017, 15:36:30 »
I managed to clear a very old raspberry bed of both couch and bindweed in a couple of years, just by patient digging it out...i was worried to start with in case I loosened the rasps too much, but they seem to have been renewed by the attention. But then, I find there are few more satisfying jobs than extracting the whole couch root and its offshoots...

Borderers1951

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 12:15:52 »
I know not everyone agrees with its use, but I spray glyphosate on the couch around my raspberries.
I have cut the bottom off a big water bottle which I place over the grass clumps and spray through the top opening. This makes sure none gets onto the fruit bushes - only onto the grass inside the bottle.
I do this once a year, early in the season, but when it is clear where the new growth is, so I can avoid it. Lasts for the year here.

I don't like to use weedkiller in all circumstances but sometimes it's a case of 'horses for courses'.  I have two cut-off water bottles which I use as you describe, a 5 litre for larger clumps and a 1 litre for small or individual stubborn weeds.  They seem to do a good job.

George the Pigman

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 22:37:23 »
Quarter Acre, I use glyphosate but selectively only when I have to. I started off trying to be organic but nowadays as I am pushing 70 with some orthopaedic problems digging the plot is getting harder and harder. I hoe when I can but faced with perennial weeds glyphosate is the only answer. There is no realistic alternative systemic weedkiller that is effective against roots and other non-systemic ones are nasty in themselves e g acetic acid.
Our allotment shop has just suspended selling glyphosate pending the EU review of safety (which is occurring despite the fact that the WHO and EU Food Agency have recently deemed it safe). If it is banned I suspect it will be for, as usual, non-commercial uses only as the agro industry will have been able to apply sufficient political pressure to allow them to use  it wily nilly. That of course will have minimal impact on its overall use but will give people the impression they have done something.
If it is banned many older and disabled allotmenteers may give up there plots as they will be too difficult to manage.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 22:39:53 by George the Pigman »

Vinlander

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 10:30:47 »
Interesting and balanced article on using vinegar etc. (University of Maryland extension)

https://extension.umd.edu/sites/extension.umd.edu/files/_docs/programs/ipmnet/Vinegar-AnAlternativeToGlyphosate-UMD-Smith-Fiola-and-Gill.pdf

Worth considering in the right place... Unfortunately its efficiency against grasses is much less.

You are better off with elbow grease - especially if you think it through properly.

I have to admit I'm an avid disciple of Lawrence D.Hills - that guy was really on the ball in terms of efficient and really effective, well-targeted techniques that avoid the use of dubious chemicals (anything people try to sell you has to be regarded as dubious - caveat emptor).

Glysophate isn't the worst - I would use it if there was no alternative - but that's rare. Usually it comes down to "too busy" - which makes no sense if the alternative takes less time in the long run.

Cheers.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

The simple/complex split is more & more important: Simple fertilisers Poor, complex ones Good. Simple (old) poisons predictable, others (new) the opposite.

rowbow

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Re: Renovating the fruit patch-the problem of couch grass
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2017, 09:27:16 »
The back quarter of my allotment has always been reserved for fruit. I have strawberries, two apple trees a number of blackcurrant bushes and blackberries (one trailing and one bush). These do well. I also have a few struggling raspberry bushes and currently a dead looking small gooseberry bush.
One constant a battle I have though is with couch grass. After twenty-five years on the plot, I have managed to more or less get it cleared from the non-fruit part of the plot. But several times I have dug it out of the fruit area only for it to come back with a vengeance.
Having visited a few commercial fruit farms recently I noticed they simply let the grass grow and just mow/strim it as necessary. However, they do make sure that there is a grass free area around the plants. So I have decided to live with it. But if I dig and the area around my raspberries etc how do I stop the grass encroaching?
Any ideas/experiences would be gratefully received
I don't know whether this will help, I read somewhere that couch grass/bindweed does not like lime and will not grow below 18.
John  :coffee2:
Spring has arrived I am so excited I have wet my PLANTS

 

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