Topic: Turnips - loads of small beige flying things...any ideas?

[Crystalmoon]

Hi there I have a new allotment on a different site & my turnip nursery bed seems to have loads of small flying moths/butterflies??? they look a beige colour. I have never experienced this before when growing turnips. I only saw them last night when watering. They flew about a foot above the plants when I watered then disappeared into the foliage again. The young plants do not have any signs of damage. I have no idea what they are or if they will cause problems? The turnips are netted but with a net that has quite large holes as the only problem I had with turnips (well everything) on my old allotment was from birds.
Today I am planning to thin the turnips out to make 2 beds rather than 1. I will have a closer look at the visitors then. Thanks for any thoughts. Jane

[Crystalmoon]

should have added they are about 1 cm in size with wings open

[Paul_D]

I logged on this morning to ask exactly the same question.
Don't have turnips but the same little flying creatures on the whole plot. They seem to have just appeared from nowhere.

[Crystalmoon]

Hi Paul I've never seen them before. Was wondering if they have just taken shelter because we have had such awful weather here in Kent with freak winds, torrential rain & very cold temperatures. I can't see any damage but if they are leaving caterpillar eggs I think the turnips will be destroyed as I don't use poisons on my plot. Hope someone comes along soon who knows what they may be. Jane

[squeezyjohn]

I'm not sure if this is the same thing, but I've definitely seen quite a few brown moths hanging around my brassicas while I've been inspecting for the cabbage whites.  The ones I've seen are slightly larger than you described but I've never known any other butterfly/moth be attracted to cabbages before and wonder if we've got some other new pest.

[Paul_D]

We've had pretty good weather here in Manchester so not sure if that's the cause.
I did not have chance to check for any damage or eggs etc but we do have a lot a cuckoo spit around.

[squeezyjohn]

I think the ones I've seen are called diamond back moths or sometimes cabbage moths. There's a description here

I can't find any information on them being particularly damaging, but I've also never noticed any of them pestering my brassicas in previous years.  I wonder whether they've done very well because of the very mild winter we had.  They are supposed to be a mediterranean native so it makes sense that they don't like the cold.

[ancellsfarmer]

Not yet seen here in N E Hampshire, but no doubt they are"on the way", as were quantities of cabbage whites at the weekend.
Better description on
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamondback_moth

[Crystalmoon]

When I went to the allotment yesterday the turnip beds were completely free of the small moths! I'm wondering if they just sheltered there during the bad weather we've had in Kent. No sign of damage to the turnips & I couldn't see any sign of eggs...I guess only time will tell if they left anything nasty behind. 
. 

[squeezyjohn]

The ones I saw bothering my brassicas were definitely diamondbacks ... on further reading it seems they can be quite a destructive pest if the caterpillars get on the leaves just like cabbage whites!  My main problem was that they seemed to be able to infiltrate my debris netting tunnels far better than cabbage whites can.

I'd never heard of them until now.  Another enemy to fight!

[Crystalmoon]

My turnips were completely netted as well with the net going right to the ground over raised beds & pinned down firmly so it looked like there was no way in but these moths got in no problem & really loads of them. If they are the Diamondbacks I expect my turnips will be ruined. I have given up growing most Brassicas already as at my old plot Cabbage Whites were everywhere. I will have to see what happens on the new allotment site with Cabbage Whites before I decide if I will grow Brassicas like Kale on my new plot. I don't use any chemicals on my plot so if the debris netting is failing I really can't see a way to grow any Brassicas successfully   

[Paul_D]

Mine were still there last night. They do look like the diamond back shape and size but mine look paler with no markings. I was hoping they were lawn moths which don't seem to be as damaging.
No signs of lave yet.
I bit of googling suggests they may be leek moths!

[ancellsfarmer]

Further to my post  earlier, visited the plot tonight and appear to have spoken too soon. They were not there on Sunday.
Clouds of them, on everything, but mainly swedes/turnips/kohlrabi. Knocked down with the hose but no doubt recovering.
Note the comments regarding caterpillar stages on the Wikipedia link above. Will be trying a salt solution with soapy water and bicarb of soda, which worked on cabbage white caterpillars in previous years. Fortunately brassicaes are salt resistant in moderation. Update in due course.

[squeezyjohn]

My debris netting hoops are absolutely heaving with these things and I can't even shoo them away - there are too many of them.

I'm almost certain they are diamond back moths - but like everyone else mine are much paler than all the pictures on the internet - but if you look closely enough the pattern is there.  I've also been doing a bit of deeper internet digging and I'm really fearful that we're in for a bit of a new plague here given how many people (not just here) seem to have thousands of them all over their cabbagy things.

- They feed on all brassicas and are particularly attracted to ones that may have been already damaged by pigeons or slugs.

- They lay eggs in clusters of 1-8 in small depressions on the leaves - these are tiny, oval and yellow/green becoming darker as they mature.

- The caterpillars emerge - brownish coloured to start with and very small, but feed rampantly on the leaves and become green.

- Diamondback moths are a mediterranean species, but have spread worldwide.  The adults can be carried across continents on the winds and end up many hundreds of miles from where they were born.  Normally our cold winters kill them all off - but this year it's very likely that they could all have survived the mild winter which is why we're seeing so many of them.  In a normal year the only ones we encounter in the summer are few and far between and will have blown in from southern Europe.

- Diamondback moths are now pretty much resistant to all pesticides due to the fact that they have been used indiscriminately in countries where they are a problem pest every year.  They are the first species ever to also become resistant to GM plants with the BT toxin gene!  They are pretty much indestructible save for hand picking the caterpillars.

There you have it!  Expect to do battle this year - and let's pray for a really deep freeze this winter!

[Crystalmoon]

Yesterday they were gathering back on my plot again in the early evening & we had very bad storms last night so I do think they are sheltering from rubbish weather but it is only the turnips they are on so despite being paler & small I do fear they are the dreaded Diamond Backs  Perhaps they just went off in the better weather to explore other plots? Who knows...I am actually tempted to rip up my turnips as I am not that fussed about growing them & would like this pest to go away!
If they are Leek Moths I will be very upset as I haven't put my late Leeks out at the allotment yet....would happily sacrifice my turnips to save the Leeks. 
 

[Crystalmoon]

Just had a look at Lawn Moths & they do really look like these & there are some very overgrown grassy plots near my plot. But if they are Lawn Moths why would they be on the Turnips??? Think I may be grasping at straws hoping they are Lawn Moths

[Paulines7]

Any chance of posting a close up picture of one for identification?

[squeezyjohn]

I think this should attach a photo of one I took on my debris netting today.

They were talking about them on Springwatch today ... I didn't see the whole episode - but they are definitely a thing that's happened this year.

[Crystalmoon]

I will have to watch that Springwatch on catch up squeezyjohn. The ones at my plot don't stay still when I approach so I have no chance of taking a photo like yours. 

[Paul_D]

This is the best shot i could manage. Still a good number on everything last night but maybe less than before. Thanks for the springwatch tip off, I'll have a look for it tonight.