Topic: Old seeds - false economy?

[Karen Atkinson]

I've a range of old seeds. Is it false economy (compost; time invested) sowing them? All are over 3 years old

[johhnyco15]

try this link should help you decide http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1999/4-2-1999/veggielife.html personnaly i think its aways worth a go i sow old seed early so if it dont germinate i have time to buy  more stock hope this helps

[Vinlander]

I've a range of old seeds. Is it false economy (compost; time invested) sowing them? All are over 3 years old

FIRST: Record each years' germination rate for next year - or look at the lists.

Consider chitting as an easy way to get a few living seedlings from a mass of seed - but even if you expect poor results it's just as important to space them out so the mouldy dead ones don't infect the viable ones before you can get them out.

Otherwise: The key word in your post is compost - if the germination falls much below 50% then it may be worth sowing in cells - but not worth sterilising/washing them first (horrible job).

If it falls well below that then it's only worth sowing direct in a bed/row - if timing allows (a bit late for toms).

Cheers.

[ancellsfarmer]

Faced this dilemma with some onion seed from 2013. The method: Placed 20 seeds on a strip of kitchen paper towel ,moistened slightly. rolled up strip and placed in clear plastic bottle (cadged from the vet, its a 5ml blood sample size, with cap)( actually got a selection for a £1 donation to the PDSA box)
Bottle placed beside the gas boiler in its cupboard. 4 days later, removed and counted 18 with little white radicles. Planted in compost and grown on , That sample has passed the test.Planted the rest with consistant results. Wont work with small seeds , specsavers moment!

[galina]

try this link should help you decide http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1999/4-2-1999/veggielife.html personnaly i think its aways worth a go i sow old seed early so if it dont germinate i have time to buy  more stock hope this helps

I agree and always try old seed.  But don't agree with the numbers given in the list.  Maybe they are for commercial seed, because we don't know how old it was when it went into the packet.  We only know that a germination test at packeting time was still ok. 

For home saved seeds you get longer viability, especially if the seeds were stored cool and dry (not in a shed on the allotment).  Tomatoes are 10 years plus, squash at least 6, peas 6-9, beans 6 or 7, pepper 2.  3 years for onion family maybe 4, the same for lettuce, 4 for brassica. 

[johhnyco15]

try this link should help you decide http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1999/4-2-1999/veggielife.html personnaly i think its aways worth a go i sow old seed early so if it dont germinate i have time to buy  more stock hope this helps

I agree and always try old seed.  But don't agree with the numbers given in the list.  Maybe they are for commercial seed, because we don't know how old it was when it went into the packet.  We only know that a germination test at packeting time was still ok. 

For home saved seeds you get longer viability, especially if the seeds were stored cool and dry (not in a shed on the allotment).  Tomatoes are 10 years plus, squash at least 6, peas 6-9, beans 6 or 7, pepper 2.  3 years for onion family maybe 4, the same for lettuce, 4 for brassica. 

galina i think this is a guide you never know how old your seed is no matter what it says on the packet and as i said always give it a go i was just trying to give the poor fellow a start a point of reference each seed even of the same variety has a different lifespan the same as us some live to 100 others dont so again as i said its always worth a try

[Jeannine]

 For the last three weeks I have been sewing old seeds of all sorts of things. tomatoes about 30 varieties, cukes, onions, peppers, and various brassicas including some perennial, they were a combo of saved seed and commercial seed. They have all been sown indoors, not direct. The only things that haven't shown are onion seed , one pots of TPS but there is still time for that some very rare bell pepper seeds and  one variety of tomatoes which oddly were one of only three that were F1 hybrids, everything else has popped. All were at least  older than double there usual  life, some of the tomatoes were 12 years old.

Go for it, you have nothing to lose but a bit of time.

XX Jeannine

[Silverleaf]

Remember too that even if germination is poor you could get enough plants just by sowing loads more seeds than usual.

And if you get absolutely nothing, you can still reuse the compost.

[galina]

There is one slight proviso about using old seeds.  I find that really old squash seeds that only just about still germinate, make fairly weak plants that need more tlc initially.  Old pepper seeds often come out weaker as well and have a harder  time coming out of their seed coat.  Old bean seeds (especially the non-white ones) can take up to 3 weeks to germinate (and some gardeners might not wait that long before they sling them). 

[Garden Manager]

Interesting topic. I am always pushing my luck with seeds and try to make them last, even with cheap seed. Hate waste, and would rather spend money on other things like compost and plants I can't grow from seed. That said certain plants like parsnips I do buy fresh each year, even if it means throwing away a load of seed (why do they put so many in a packet - who wants 100s of parsnips a year?).

Imy tightness with seed has found me out this year. I have had failures I can directly trace back to seed that was probably too old.

[galina]

Sorry you had failures.  Usually there is a tailing off with germination rate and you get some warning the year before.  And sometimes seeds don't germinate (especially outdoors) for other reasons.

I just had a success with ancient seeds of Mandan squash.  I don't particularly like this squash and don't grow it often.  I have seeds safely stashed in the freezer, but the rest were just cluttering up my seed box.  They were dated 2004!  So I tipped them into a plastic Chinese food container with a bit of wet tissue and left them.  12 years old and just about every seed germinated!  Anybody want some mandan plants? 

[johhnyco15]

wow galina that really is impressive  yesterday sowed some tomato seeds 5 years out of date found them in the shed roof thought of this post so ive given them a try but its very hot and dry up there i have sliding false roof for storage for netting and stuff but forgot about the seeds time will tell

[galina]

Good luck with them.  If it gets much above 37C there isn't much hope, but you never know! 

[artichoke]

I am just sorting out a mass of old lettuce seeds - ashamed of having so many out of date packets. They are sprinkled onto damp old J cloths retired from the kitchen and put into plastic boxes. Of the first three packets, one germinated rapidly, and the seeds have been tweezered into a gutter of compost and started to show the next day. The others I will throw away after 24 more hours if they don't do anything. They are no older than the germinating one, so you never can tell (around 2010 - 2014).

I put just about all my seeds into wet cloth to check them unless they are really fresh. It doesn't seem to do the slightest harm, even to sweetcorn. But I have stopped putting them in a warm place in case real life is too much of a shock.

[Vinlander]

The problem with J cloths is their strength - if (like me) you ever leave the seeds a few hours too long the root goes into the cloth and only the biggest toughest seeds can stand being extricated - and even then they lose all their root hairs.

This is why I choose the crappiest kitchen roll possible for my 'seed mat' - so I can always tease the mat apart with two pointed things - and make sure the parting goes between the seedlings - an actual tear in a stronger material is far too difficult to control.

I recommend the cheapest offerings from the better supermarkets - it's always of appalling quality whereas the stuff from 99p shops can occasionally turn out to be top quality... Waitrose's crap range is the worst I've found - it hurts to pay top dollar for it but it does the best (most lousy) job. Or use serviettes - they are always rubbish.

I've been chitting for years and I feel a Top Tip coming on...

Cheers.

[galina]

Artichoke, there is a bit of a trick to waking up old lettuce seeds and that is cold.  They are known not to germinate too well if they are sown on a hot summers day.  But the same is true for the seeds themselves.  If these packets were exposed to direct sunlight or heat they will struggle, even sown on a cool day.  But you can (up to a point) 'reset' lettuce seeds.  Take the whole J-cloth with seeds and the container they are in and shove them in the bottom of the fridge for two days.  I have even put some of mine in the freezer for a day, but fridge is probably gentler.  After this, the seeds that were reluctant to germinate, might well feel the urge.  Unless of course they are too old - older than 4 years is not so good for lettuce.  Good luck - you've got nothing to lose.   

[Jeannine]

Another thing to do if germinayion is poor, is to chuck th whole packet or blend of packets in to a tub, then if some come up you will have baby greens, I do this all the time with lettuce and I get a good salad crop all year round.Kale seed is especially good fro this too.

[galina]

Jeannine,  that sounds familiar - I chuck into the corner of the greenhouse rather than a tub.  I do this anyway for overwintering or early germinating lettuce and other salad plants - chuck right beside the tomatoes which are still growing in October.  The seeds will come up as and when they like for winter salad greens. 

I found some pretty old carrot seeds that I had saved yonks ago late last year.  Not long now and we'll eat new carrots - way earlier than any grown normally. 

I can't remember who to credit with this.  Somebody on A4A reported success sowing in October in a cold frame.  I found it hard to believe at the time, but for two year's running now, we have enjoyed a taste of super early carrots.  And to use up old seeds this way, there is just nothing to lose.   

[Jeannine]

Galina when I was living in the UK, I kept a small greenhouse in my back garden with large oblong tubs in it, I managed to grow all through the winter with salad greens, green onions, radishes and carrots. There are some pictures somewhere on A4A with harvested stuff in my hand .

I have a few  small jars of mixed lettuce, mixed kales, and another mixed lot with all sorts in. If my seed packets get a bit old they get chucked in there, they are frequently topped up and I just scatter them in a long tub, when they start to get a bit thin I chuck some more in. I figure the ones that don't grow end up as mini compost. Sometimes I do them in a jar. Anyway either way nothing wastes.

I have a ton of old carrot seeds, apparently you can eat the greens but I don't fancy them, anyway a full packet of Parisienne, the little round ones just got tossed in a tub.

Have you ever read Elliot Colemans book, gardening through the winter, I loaned it out and lost it but there was some good info in there. I looked on Amazon for a replacement but bought a different one, written by a Canadian woman. forgotten her name, anyway it is supposed to be excellent for cold weather areas, so if stuff grows in her part of Canada it should surely grow in mine and in the UK.

I am getting all geared up to seriously growing in the greenhouse this year again.

XX Jeannine

[artichoke]

Vinlander, you are absolutely right, and I spend a lot of time teasing baby roots out of J cloths.....but I have a guilt complex about chucking them out when they are too manky for kitchen use.....but now you have mentioned it, I will move over to lavatory paper, I think..... (I have a guilt complex about buying kitchen wipe, too....) Thank you for pointing out what should be obvious.

And thanks also for the lettuce info, Galina. My two unresponsive packs will go into fridge, though it may be too late now. Thinking now of putting all my lettuce packs into the fridge so that over the season, when I try them out, they have already been chilled.

Excellent advice to sprinkle mixed aging seeds in odd corners as potential salad leaves!