Author Topic: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase  (Read 13226 times)

leonmc0708

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New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« on: November 03, 2015, 15:17:29 »
Hi There

After some help, advice, pointers and comment if people don't mind.

I am on the committee of my Allotment Society which is "self managed" and previously benefited from 30% of all rent payments income that the council set as an allowance for managing the site.

Previously, up until 2014 the rental figure was set at £31.35 per plot and there are 131 plots on the site that we manage as a society so the bill was 131 X £31.35 = £4106.85 and the society was allowed to retain £1232.06 of this and the council was paid £2783.79.

This figure was then divided equally between all the plots dependent on size (some large, some small, some half large and some half small). To their credit (and subsequently now stupidly) the management fee was always used to keep rent costs down as well which is also adding to the issue.

The society was served notice to determine the new lease in February 2014 and then in April 2015 we received a letter informing us that the figure was now £10218 - which equates to £78 per plot. At the same time the "management fee" has been reduced from 30% to 15% meaning the payable amount is now £8686.30 (divided by 131 = £66.31) In the interim period we have had to agree to take on the water meter costs from the council which equates to circa £10 per plot holder.

This means the society now gets more money, at £1532.70 but less as a percentage obviously.

We are "in negotiations" with hte council who have advised (during Complaint LEvel 1) that they are correct and will stand.

We have not signed a new lease to agree to these figures as a society.

We also (the treasurer) paid a cheque to cover the old amount of £2875 on the basis that until a new lease is signed he cant pay more - the council have however "taken legal advice" and not cashed this cheque.

Does anyone have any experience of this - advice etc.

Thanks in advance.

artichoke

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2015, 18:23:32 »
I don't think I can be very helpful, but our plot rents have been abruptly raised by 55% PLUS a new compulsory deposit of up to £50 per plot (depending on size) against the possibility of the plot being left "untidy" (deposit returnable if site left "tidy" in a way which is not clearly defined). We are managed by our local town council, overseeing four sites. They are also trying to impose a new contract with clauses that we think are unreasonable, so we are not signing and returning it.

One of us with legal training has found that it is illegal to raise rents without 12 months notice. I think you actually had this notice? We have all (as far as I know) refused to pay the deposit at that level, and most of us have refused to pay the increased rent. The Council is trying to compromise with us in various ways, and we will know more after their meeting in late November.

So all I can say is keep the discussion going, do not commit to anything, and try to persuade your council to be reasonable. There has been a lot in the news lately about community health and allotments, and pricing plots out of most people's budgets is not the way to go.

sparrow

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2015, 20:10:41 »
It's not something that we've had, but it's likely to come our way when the site lease is up for renegotiation.

It might be worth contacting the Leeds federation who had their rent increase quashed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-28660002

Likewise the Edinburgh federation: http://www.fedaga.org.uk/rent-rise-campaign.html

Hope that helps!




daveyboi

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2015, 22:05:01 »
leonmc0708

As a matter of interest how long does the new lease run for and are there any increases allowed in that term ?

Also have your committee discussed buying the site under the new community asset transfer rights?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 22:24:45 by daveyboi »
Daveyboi
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Ellen K

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 08:59:26 »
In the past, we've often been quoted that the Council can only increase rents in line with the increases to charges for other recreational facilities it provides.  For example, its swimming pool - if they bit the entrance fee up by 10%, that's really the only increase they can justify for the allotments.

But what Sparrow said - others have challenged these increases and been successful so looking at what they did is the way to go.

leonmc0708

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2015, 10:15:22 »
I don't think I can be very helpful, but our plot rents have been abruptly raised by 55% PLUS a new compulsory deposit of up to £50 per plot (depending on size) against the possibility of the plot being left "untidy" (deposit returnable if site left "tidy" in a way which is not clearly defined). We are managed by our local town council, overseeing four sites. They are also trying to impose a new contract with clauses that we think are unreasonable, so we are not signing and returning it.

One of us with legal training has found that it is illegal to raise rents without 12 months notice. I think you actually had this notice? We have all (as far as I know) refused to pay the deposit at that level, and most of us have refused to pay the increased rent. The Council is trying to compromise with us in various ways, and we will know more after their meeting in late November.

So all I can say is keep the discussion going, do not commit to anything, and try to persuade your council to be reasonable. There has been a lot in the news lately about community health and allotments, and pricing plots out of most people's budgets is not the way to go.

Artichoke - thanks any response is helpful whether it be advice or warning against action, so thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

We did indeed get 12 months notice so we cant "have them" on this point.

The council is suggesting it hopes to work with us and that in itself is helpful though their initial response was to suggest it was all right and proper when we complained about it through their official channel.

thanks for the tips and please do reply with anything else you think may be useful.

It's not something that we've had, but it's likely to come our way when the site lease is up for renegotiation.

It might be worth contacting the Leeds federation who had their rent increase quashed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-28660002

Likewise the Edinburgh federation: http://www.fedaga.org.uk/rent-rise-campaign.html

Hope that helps!

Sparrow- thanks for the links - they will prove useful for our committee members if only for motivation as a few murmured rumblings of discontent and defeat when we last met as I read out the letter we received from the council.

leonmc0708

As a matter of interest how long does the new lease run for and are there any increases allowed in that term ?

Also have your committee discussed buying the site under the new community asset transfer rights?

Daveyboi - thanks for the reply. LEase proposal is 2015-2017 and does include some more increases in 2016 and 2017 in the letter, the council plan it appears is to get the rent figure up to £100 per plot across their jurisdiction.

We haven't thought (or heard) of the buying of the site - I will look into this. If you have any information on this please let me have the details.

In the past, we've often been quoted that the Council can only increase rents in line with the increases to charges for other recreational facilities it provides.  For example, its swimming pool - if they bit the entrance fee up by 10%, that's really the only increase they can justify for the allotments.

But what Sparrow said - others have challenged these increases and been successful so looking at what they did is the way to go.

Ellen K - Thanks for the reply. I am aware (through other activities) that the council has raised many services (and indeed stopped some) markedly due to their own budget cuts - which we do understand. Our issues stem from the massive increase in one jump, coupled with a reduction in the Societies' "retainer" and the fact above all this that their actual jobs which they have to do on the site or in relation to it have not changed (from not having any as we do the lot ourselves) and as such the increase is not justified on this basis.


daveyboi

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2015, 10:39:25 »

We haven't thought (or heard) of the buying of the site - I will look into this. If you have any information on this please let me have the details.

It is under the legislation Localism and Planning reform
An over view can be found at
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/youve-got-the-power-a-quick-and-simple-guide-to-community-rights

Look at the guide

Help and advice is available from http://mycommunity.org.uk/

Daveyboi
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nodig

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 14:12:42 »
What we all need is a nationwide union to represent allotmenteers, one voice to fight for the rights of tenants of allotment gardens.  The £100 per year allotment standard price is looming fast, so who is prepared to fight for a nationwide fair rent?

johhnyco15

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 15:20:06 »
wow i feel so lucky we own our site we have no toilets no mains water we pump water via a spring which is very hard work but as its our land we pay £2 per rod so a standard 10 rod plot is £20 it must be terrible to have to renegotiate every few years i dont envy you at all good luck
johhnyc015  may the plot be with you

artichoke

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2015, 14:33:55 »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-28660002

Someone gave this link in another thread, and my allotment colleagues are very pleased with it.

Tee Gee

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2015, 15:00:29 »
Our rents for 2015 went up around 10% to £24 pa where senior citizens pay 50% of the full rate.

We all received a letter last year stating the need for increases and that our rates would rise over the next three years to around £50

Based on   what they have done to date I think the future rates might be:

2015 = £24 (£2 per month)

2016 =  £36 (£3 per month)

2017 = £48 (£4 per month) 

Will just have to wait and see, but I am not too worried as £1 a week (or 50p in my case) for the untold pleasure I get from my allotment is OK by me.



Gavin63

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2015, 15:41:26 »
As you say£1 per week is not excessive however on our allotments at £13 per year we get a revolt if we  increase the rents by 50p a year!.

ancellsfarmer

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2015, 19:32:24 »
Market value!
The average cost of rental for agricultural land in the Uk in 2013 was £171 per hectare, thats 10000 sq metres for £171, almost 2p per sq metre.  Your council will fuss at that, what with all the enhancements they have provided. Remind them that "back to basics" is where they should be, or find another supplier!
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

leonmc0708

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2015, 17:21:47 »
Market value!
The average cost of rental for agricultural land in the Uk in 2013 was £171 per hectare, thats 10000 sq metres for £171, almost 2p per sq metre.  Your council will fuss at that, what with all the enhancements they have provided. Remind them that "back to basics" is where they should be, or find another supplier!

not sure I understand your point ?

ancellsfarmer

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2015, 19:31:12 »
leonmc08,
The relevant legal provisions of the various Allotment Acts, 1098,1922, 1950 relate.Section 10 (1) , 1950 being the relevant regarding rent. The principle is that councils should facilitate the provision of land to grow food, there is no principal that they profit from the provision. The basic provision of land is what they should do." Fancy "improvements, facilities, managements, overseer costs should not be priced in, or comparisons made to other land use. Therefore the market value, of agricultural land, should be the rate upon which rents are based. In the latest reported rate, it is , as my previous post , less than 2pence per square metre.
Freelance cultivator qualified within the University of Life.

leonmc0708

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2015, 09:22:10 »
leonmc08,
The relevant legal provisions of the various Allotment Acts, 1098,1922, 1950 relate.Section 10 (1) , 1950 being the relevant regarding rent. The principle is that councils should facilitate the provision of land to grow food, there is no principal that they profit from the provision. The basic provision of land is what they should do." Fancy "improvements, facilities, managements, overseer costs should not be priced in, or comparisons made to other land use. Therefore the market value, of agricultural land, should be the rate upon which rents are based. In the latest reported rate, it is , as my previous post , less than 2pence per square metre.

sorry, I have been hardened by being on football forums and sometimes think people are making a joke when they are not !

That info is interesting and intriguing - I may need to read up on these Allotment Acts and this section regarding rent - there may be an angle I can use.

thanks for the tip and if you have any links to the aforementioned please do let me have them.

Digeroo

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2015, 10:44:32 »
The concept of profit is difficult to define.  Councils certainly do not run at a profit. 
How much does it cost to run an allotment? 

I do not believe there is anything in any of those acts which states that the rent should be comparable to agricultural rents.  I think I would investigate a lot more before suggesting that allotment rents should compare to agricultural rents.  How much agricultural land is there in the middle of a city to compare anyway?  Are you suggesting a comparable rent for the area?  I would not go there.

There has been some sort of case which has compared the increase to be comparable to increases in other activities such as swimming.

I am on a private site on what was agricultural land and I certainly pay more than agricultural rent.  There is quite a lot of work and expenses involved.     We pay £90 per plot although many are bigger than 10 rods.  We also pay £50 deposit and quite frankly the state in which some of them are left it is nowhere near enough.  And my calculation is that very few leave their plots in a good state.  Though we do start with a well rotovated plot and paths and hedges are done.

I still reckon that I get very good value from my plot in terms of crops and enjoyment.





























nodig

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2015, 17:15:56 »
Like all things if demand outstrips supply then there is an upward pressure on prices, and tenants of allotments are not immune from this.  Ancellsfarmer has made a good dig at this by saying that farmland is about 2p per sq m equivalent to £5.00 for a standard 250 m sq plot.  Here in Norfolk, Norfolk County Council has 6556 hectares of farmland which it lets out at £259 per hectare or about 2.6p per sq m, I know a higher price than ancellsfarmer but the land also comes with a house!  So a typical 50 hectare tenant farmer in Norfolk pays £12950 rent a year for land and a home.  Back to allotment land.  If we let our Norfolk tenant farmer sublet his 50 hectares of land as allotments, he would probably get about 1600 10 rod plots and if he lets the plots for £50 each (some think this good value) then his income would be £80,000 less £12,950 or £67,050.  Not sure what the above has got do with a fair allotment rent, but how do you value allotment land?

leonmc0708

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2015, 16:54:22 »
Thanks again for all input.

I was put onto the below and its certainly interesting read - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2014/2598.html - if you can look through the legalise of course

Digeroo

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Re: New Allotment Lease - 210% increase
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2015, 19:00:09 »
Read part of that.  Its like getting bogged down in quick sand.   Nearly sunk without trace.

Do they provide a translation?!!!

 

anything
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