Topic: Red Florence onions - or are they shallots?

[galina]

Just an update on my experiment with Red Florence onions. 

I read somewhere that they are really shallots.  I also read that you can use most of any onion, just leave the base plate and roots intact with a little bit of onion still attached and they will grow again.  So a plan for an experiment presented itself.

I was told that cutting off most of a spring onion and expecting regrowth does definitely work well, which was very encouraging. 

Last autumn I cut off most of the onions and replanted the base plate and roots with a little bit of the original onion attached to it.  They overwintered (one did not make it, so perhaps a little more frost protection?).  Anyway 3 made it and sprouted 3, 5 and 6 very fat 'spring onions'  off the base plate.

I detached these, each had its own root system and I have replanted each of these individually.  Hopefully they will fatten up into normal sized Red Florence onions and not start flowering before the bulb has had time to swell into a big red onion.

So far so good.  Even if they were harvested for the kitchen at this stage it would have been well worth it - much more onion compared to what I planted.  And as they were planted over winter, when garden space is not at a premium, it makes good use of the ground too.

[goodlife]

Seems like we have lot of vegetative propagation going on with all manner of crops.. Brilliant! As much as I like sowing seeds, you can have too much of the 'good thing'. The beauty of 'playing with few small plants' that at least you know what amount you end of..or near of....with seeds is always bit of 'gamble'.

I missed your earlier posts about these onions..did they bolt or something?

I have done something similar with few oniony plants...heh..I'm always sticking bits of plants into compost to see what happens..

Onions/shallots...what is actual proper definition to separate the two? I've always thought..those that divide to multiply themselves are 'proper' shallots...and single types that are sold 'as shallots' are more of onions.... Not very scientific but can't see the point in use other wise....suppose there is botanical difference between two? All more and less same to me..
I would be surprised if they would bolt this year...the growth is determined inside bulb..yes/no?..so if non of that is saved for progation, then the new plants are effectively 'new'= in their first year. Though I don't know what 'memory' of its age/development is stored inside the base plate..if any..

Oh..I'm really looking forward to hear how you get on with your experiment 

[chriscross1966]

LRF is an onion, tastes like an onion, doesn't taste like a shallot.... I've had some sports of it that didn't go red that looked awfully like banana shallots, but they don't taste like shallots...

[Deb P]

I accidentally left a clump of these overwinter on my plot a couple of years ago, and they just regrew in the spring, so I've just kept doing this since to get early crops. You lose a few in bad frosts which turn to mush but overall it's a worthwhile exercise, you can chop the early growth off and use it as a chives substitute as well...

[galina]

Goodlife, these were standard Red Florence Onions that I harvested last year in early autumn.  They hadn't flowered.  No I could not find the original post either or I would have continued.  Somebody was kind enough to chip in at the time to say that his spring onions always grow back quite fast.

What was interesting was the amount of 'spring onions'  that came out of the base plates.  The bigger onions had more than the smaller onions.  However I planted 4 and ended up with 3 plants which is not a very large experiment  But a split into 6 is a lot for any onion.

No I don't know the exact difference between onion and shallot either.  Apparently there is one.  However shallots generally store very well.  The same cannot be said for Red Florence Onions which only go on for a few months.  Shallots have a number of shoots, and usually more than six.  I have left onions in the past and observed, but they never had more than 2.  Six is a lot by comparison.

I'm afraid ChrisCross my palate is not refined enough to taste the difference between shallots and onions.  Shallots are milder than most onions, but RFO is particularly mild and ideal for eating raw in salads.  Interesting about the sports.  Overall my RFOs were larger than banana shallots and they were all red. 

Deb, that's interesting.  So what happens with each individual onion?  Do they grow multiple onions?

I wondered whether I should leave them attached to the base plate, but then decided to break them off the base plate and plant with more spacing for potentially bigger onions.  After last night's torrential rain, they look well watered in today.

Let's hope their bulbs fatten up.  I'll let you know.

[galina]

And here is the result of the 2015 trial.  5 bulbs multiplied and I got up to 4 per onion.  Not as many as last year, but far, far bigger in size.  From 5 I got 14.  Not a bad return.  However some of them have not split at all, however they are much larger than they were.  I wish I could grow them to such sizes when I grow them as onions.  The ones with the most splits also tried to flower, but I removed the flowers to try them out as shallots.

Here is a picture of all of them.  I had them in the conservatory over the worst of winter as I am not sure how hardy they are.  If I had treated them a little better and watered/weeded, the results probably would have been better still.  They were in a corner and a little difficult to get to.   

I am pleased with the outcome and will grow them as shallots again. 

[Jayb]

They look good and really interesting results.

[Vinlander]

Onions/shallots...what is actual proper definition to separate the two? I've always thought..those that divide to multiply themselves are 'proper' shallots...and single types that are sold 'as shallots' are more of onions....

If you sow onion seed and treat them mean - I didn't do this deliberately, it just happened - then you end up with useless little onions... and if you're tight fisted and unwilling to admit defeat (like me) you will leave them in - or use them as sets - to see what happens next year.

Don't be surprised if some of them split like shallots, and some others may even produce good-sized bulbs at the top of their flower stems like walking onions.

There is obviously still a lot of genetic diversity hiding in ordinary onions.

It may be that the Red Baron seeds I saw this in - being relatively recently bred - may be less stable than some - and I can't guarantee that the seeds I used hadn't been from previous parsimony with failed onions - maybe even from two successive generations of failures.

Cheers.