Topic: Electric propagator

[goodlife]

Hmm...talking about grow tents did get me doing some 'silvery material' research....and I'm now planning my 'mark 3' grow 'tent'...
I might get one of these...http://www.screwfix.com/p/radiator-reflector-foil-470mm-x-4m-1-88m/88629 ...line a BIG cardboard box with it (which I happen to have handy for those 'what if I do....' moments)...use 3 sides of it as solid walls and leave one side open and have reflector foil to hang down as curtain for access to the plants...
...light(s) can be inserted through cut out hole on top and clipped on to the box (reinforcing might be needed for that bit).
Then just sliding a gravel tray at the bottom and HEY PRESTO!..'solid grow tent' and is easy clear away 'in one piece' when there is no need for it anymore...
Solid sides keep the plants draught free and temperature will stay even =better growth...as my spare bedroom where all winter propagation is happening is almost unheated..keeping things snug is very important.
I need 'mark 3'...as I have need for more space for plants but without having to get anymore lights..current systems do work well but they can always be improved. Storage box system is brilliant for seedlings..but it is 'next stage' that I need to rethink again.
As soon as roads here clear out bit more...I'll be heading for shops for some materials....and release my inner 'blue peter' again..

[kGarden]

some 'silvery material'

Looks to me to be much like Mylar - so should be excellent especially if cheap! :)

other thing I have known used (in case you have / can find cheap) is a space-blanket - the sort of thing to wrap around people after an accident, or when stranded to prevent hypothermia.

[Paulines7]

Not wishing to be pedantic, it seems a huge price hike for 7 spare seed trays, which bought on their own would be much cheaper and sourced from supermarket packaging would be free.  Not difficult to make spare lids either. 

However, I love goodlife's seed sowing system.  Now that is elegant, the running costs are low as well as the setting up costs and (evidently  ) the results are very good too.  Thankyou for showing us.   

Good luck with those early sowings everybody.

Galina, the extra 7 seed trays with lids cost £8.    Where would I be able to buy them cheaper please?  The nearest Wilko or similar is at Trowbridge about 15 miles away.  I don't know what you mean when you say "sourced from supermarket packaging".  What are the spare lids made of and how are they made please?  They would have to be exact in size to fit in the propagator.

Goodlife's growing system is brilliant and I aim to copy her idea, but as she says, she still uses a propagator for germinating some of her seeds.

[goodlife]

I think what Galina means with supermarket packaging is...that some fruit (berries) and (and supposed some foods too) have clear tray shape lids on them, which she has saved and they fit the seed trays....clear punnets?

One thing about these 'seed tray' propagators has been nagging me...I'm wondering is one restricted to use trays only on those heated bases. Supposed it is fine if one is happy to use trays only...but I like to have options...and those one cover only units have the option to use both trays and pots. Do those heated multi-seed tray bases work too hard if one want to use pots on them...leaving cooling gaps between....?? 

I've now progressed with my cunning plan...brain has been ticking...  I've just ordered 5 tier 'mini greenhouse'..one of cheap jobs with zip cover...spent WHOLE £13. Plan is to get some of that reflector material from screwfix...cover bottom half of shelving with it to make 'tent' (with the help of dug tape)...that's where I'm going to set the lights for plants to grow...leaving top shelf or two for propagators. I have some wood that I can clamp to frame for light fittings if in need.
 Then the clear cover is optional  for later on..should I need it or not is to be seen..probably not. Reason for my change of plan is that I realized my BIG cardboard box is in use already...as temporary table top under plants on windowsill...

I've been looking at those hydroponic tents and they are SO expensive...even just little one is more than £50..and that's in sale!
I'm sure 'my tent' will work as well ...and I don't need it to be so 'solid', little bit of air is good..after all I'm not growing anything 'tropical'.. If I take my time with crafting...it will look good too...
I've got some Christmas 'box' money to use, so I've made decision to use it for 'growing bits' ....OH, it is all going to be so POSH!

[ed dibbles]

Re-used packaging can be a cheap and effective alternative to "gardening-made" products that are, after all, only moulded plastic in both instances.

For example the containers mushrooms are sold in, being quite deep with a good base, make excellent plant pots for top heavy plants that tend to fall over in a conventional pot. Likewise flat meat trays can be used for pricking out or to hold smaller pots/loo roll sowings together.

Clear fruit lids as mini propagator greenhouse covers or even seeded pots and small trays in a simple plastic bag. The bag can be turned inside out if condensation builds up.

For some large potted plants I simply use cheap plastic buckets from B&Q or Poundland rather than much more expensive plastic plant pots. I make holes in the buckets bottoms of course.

It may be that frugality and recycling appeals to me that gives a buzz of finding a use for something that otherwise would be discarded. Or not unnecessarily paying over the odds.

And saving money where I can means that there is more left for even more plants and seeds.

[Paulines7]

I re-use mushroom containers and other similar punnets for holding my jiffy7's.  I would not be happy using them in a heated propagator though as they may catch fire or give off fumes when heated.  I imagine those sold with the propagators would be more substantial and not pose a risk.  I am hoping the ones that are provided with the propagator are solid and not like those flimsy seed trays that break easily and have to be discarded after one growing season.

Goodlife, for your light boxes, have you tried using the polystyrene broccoli boxes that can be found discarded at markets?  I use them in the greenhouse for keeping plants safe and warm.  I would think they could be used as growing boxes too.

[galina]

As goodlife and Ed said.  They are made from food grade plastic and my propagator never gets hot enough to make melting or giving off fumes a possibility.  The propagators without thermostat provide about 7-8 degrees C above ambient temperature, ie the same as a warm summer's day. 

The trays that came with my propagator were of good quality, but most 'proper' trays are too shallow for my liking.  In the end it is all down to what we prefer to use.   

[pumkinlover]

I have one of the window sill tray propagators. Probably from two wests as it is just down the road from me      been using them for years.
It is great for starting off seeds but as soon as germinated they need to be transplanted as they get leggy. Enough light cannot get through and if you take the top off the heat is lost. That said they have a role to play but if you need to have a "goodlife" set up to move onto fairly soon.

[galina]

To answer the question about gaps - it is the top cover that keeps the heat in , gaps don't really matter.  The effect of an air gap compared to opening the top vent fully, is small.  As the cheaper propagators are not temperature controlled (just warmer than ambient temperature), the seeds must germinate a little slower or a little faster depending on actual conditions - warm lounge or colder back bedroom for location of propagator.  But seeds do that in nature anyway.   Most tomato seeds will be up in less than a week, three to four days for fresh seed.  For peppers it means the difference between being easy to germinate rather than the hit and miss of room temperature germination in winter.  A propagator is not warm enough to germinate peppers in a cold greenhouse without much extra insulation. 

I never germinate peas or broad beans or brassica in the propagator, they don't need the heat.

[goodlife]

Thanks for the answers...
MY 'gaps' issue were more of 'energy consumption' thing rather than having enough heat for seeds....but as usual, brain was ticking over time and I probably invented issue where there wasn't one in first place..
I always place something insulating...piece of 'yoga mat' or polystyrene sheet under my propagators...it is surprise how much heat 'escape' though bottom of the heaters..that's why I never use them on my cold windowsills. B***y builder didn't do proper job with windows when we had new put on..they don't let wind through the gaps but boy the sills are cold to touch in winter.
When I placed propagator on bookshelf...I was surprised to find how warm the whole shelf felt from underneath..!!! It was not supposed to keep that warm!! ...but all of mine do it. Ever since I've use insulator underneath and none of the propagators effort is wasted to where it is not needed..I'm sure it saves with heating cost too, pennies maybe but still.. It is pennies saved for getting few more seeds..

Pumpkinlover...does TW&E have proper shop premises? ...I'm imaging one that is like 'hardware toffee shop' for gardeners  They've told me in past that I could go and pick up some items from them personally if I wanted to...but didn't know if it is just fetching from warehouse 'backdoor' or if they have actual shop??

[kGarden]

One thing about these 'seed tray' propagators has been nagging me...I'm wondering is one restricted to use trays only on those heated bases. Supposed it is fine if one is happy to use trays only...but I like to have options...and those one cover only units have the option to use both trays and pots. Do those heated multi-seed tray bases work too hard if one want to use pots on them...leaving cooling gaps between....?? 

Posh propagator, with a transparent lid that covers the lot, probably works better in that regard? They seem to rock-up at £100 for a couple of square feet, and I've never wanted to spend that much - and have way too many plants for just 2 sq.ft!

In addition to a windowsill propagator, and the appropriate little trays / lids, I also have a warming mat - a big thing (2' wide and 6' long I think) which has a thermostat (which I stuff into a pot to measure actual temperature).  I have a crudely shaped base and sides made from insulating board - polystyrene would do - although I don't bother to cover the top - its in the house with growing lights over it. I use that for seed that takes a long time to grow, and seedlings / cuttings that benefit from bottom heat [in greenhouse during Summer / Autumn], but I have never grown vegetables that are stubborn to germinate! so it has only ever been used for Ornamentals.

I've been looking at those hydroponic tents and they are SO expensive...even just little one is more than £50..and that's in sale!

Price might be because of the need for fittings for cooling / carbon filters to get rid of the smell?! 

I never use them on my cold windowsills. B***y builder didn't do proper job with windows when we had new put on..they don't let wind through the gaps but boy the sills are cold to touch in winter.

Hadn't really thought about it before, but I reckon that any windowsill propagator could benefit from not wasting heat "downwards" so worth standing on insulating board / polystyrene perhaps?

Edit: Sorry, you already said that :)

[goodlife]

Posh propagator, with a transparent lid that covers the lot, probably works better in that regard? They seem to rock-up at £100 for a couple of square feet, and I've never wanted to spend that much - and have way too many plants for just 2 sq.ft!

Oh yes..those with adjustable thermostats are expensive....I would love to have those..vitopod, something to dream of..
Mine is large with single lid..though without heat adjustment and one can buy them around at cheapest just under £40...not too bad.
I've been looking at thermostat that could be added to mine as 'upgrade'...but they only cost over £50!!! AGGGH!
Oh well..why to bother if the old system does work...it is lot of money for convenience.

[ACE]

I made a huge propagator once for bringing on my show plants. Passing a building site I noticed them putting some thick sheets of insulating board in the skip. The stuff that is like thick expanded foam coated in silver foil. I grabbed a load and built an 8'X 4' propagator about 18" high. Got a heat mat and lined the bottom covered in a sharp sand/softsand mix, this was just thick enough to keep damp. the plant trays lay on top.

A hinged frame top covered in bubblewrap with a strip light kept the warmth in without overheating. It worked a treat and seeds seemed to pop up the next day. I only sprayed with warm water with a bit of Bordeaux mixture to stop damping down. It would start seeds off at anytime of the year, which was exactly what I needed for flowering plants out of season. But see no reason it would not work for veggies to get them earlier and  a bigger germination percentage.

[pumkinlover]

Goodlife- Two Wests are in a factory unit. Very industrial not set up as a shop but they will let you look at stuff but not wander about. Most people are picking up orders to save postage. They make the plunge beds there and some other items .
PM sent 

Back to the original post and question about using pots. I have done this but I think that the shallow well fitting trays which come with the window will propagator are needed to get the warmth to the seeds.

[goodlife]

 I know that I'll be doing quite a number 'flower' cuttings this coming year.....and is good to have all these ideas around of how to 'make ends meet'.
Even in the smaller propagators one can produce huge number of seedlings and cuttings, it is all about timing and keeping the production line going.
My biggest problem has always been, how keep new/young plants going when 'propagation/lighted' area is getting full and unheated GH is still too cold for the 'over spill', particularly if the weather should stay cold until late. I don't have electricity in allotments so in past I've either played very inventive game with candles and clay pots...or bought paraffin to fill heaters, but that is not now a option, paraffin heating is too expensive for long term...I don't get money back for it from clients, one can only charge so much.

[goodlife]

Goodlife- Two Wests are in a factory unit. Very industrial not set up as a shop but they will let you look at stuff but not wander about. Most people are picking up orders to save postage. They make the plunge beds there and some other items .

Ah...just as I thought....I was already dreaming of a fancy shop.. We've got small such a unit in our town..they make GH components and such a stuff ...sold in many garden centres. I one spotted them selling stuff on line..found out where they were and fetch it locally saving postage....and now I know where they are, they don't mind if one goes knocking on their door buying from straight from them....much cheaper than in garden centres..
But it is good to know more of 'local' shopping options..

[kGarden]

I've been looking at thermostat that could be added to mine as 'upgrade'...but they only cost over £50!!! AGGGH!

The £50-ish ones should be highly accurate - probably control the heat to within 0.5C, even though they won't be rated to promise to do that.  I don't suppose it makes much cost saving for a propagator, particularly in a house, but for a fan heater in a greenhouse controlling the temperature that accurately can save £50 in a single season - unless it is as mild as last year when a heater wouldn't have even been needed!

If looking for an excuse??!! then cheapo thermostats are likely to have a hysteresis (between ON and OFF) of several degrees, maybe even as much as 10C, which is either wastefully overheating the propagator, or allowing it to fall to temperatures which will kill plants.

I have a high quality thermostat for the fan heater in my (cold) conservatory, which I use for overspill in Spring as it is well insulated and doesn't need much heat to maintain 10C, and a logging thermometer shows that the temperature only swings 0.5C during the heating cycles.

[goodlife]

RIGHT......I've done it!!! 
The 'frame, 2 rolls of radiator reflector foil, dug tape, few cable ties and length of wood from shed...total cost £28
I made cardboard door and the bent top bit is used as 'hinge'.
I can put propagator on the top and then move the young plants/seedlings under light into my 'posh' light cabinet..
I didn't really need to put the reflector on shelves, but I used the roll up..unfortunately one roll was just door short of foil.
Plan is to clip lights on the wooden bit..place gravel trays on both shelves...on top I'll be putting some polystyrene sheeting under propagator.

I'm ready for now... We'll see how my 'mark 3' is going to perform.....very soon....

...oh, and hubby commented that I'm probably going to set house in fire....or attract police helicopter hovering over house..

[pumkinlover]

You are the Mistress of inventiveness 

[goodlife]

You are the Mistress of inventiveness 

 ..... ...


...oh,  'inventiveness', oh well.. ...