Topic: Electric propagator

[Paulines7]

I am going to buy an electric propagator to use indoors to give my plants, such as chillies and tomatoes, an early start.  A neighbour, who successfully grows chillies, said I should buy one that holds at least three large trays.  I have just searched on line for one and am at a loss to know which one to buy.  There are so many to chose from.  Some of them are so expensive and I don't want to spend too much on one, certainly no more than £50. 

I have seen this one that looks good value but thought I would ask your advice first. 
http://www.twowests.co.uk/product/window-sill-propagator-with-14-seed-trays-and-covers 

The propagator will sit in front of the windows in the utility room so doesn't need to be a window sill one. 

I am also thinking of buying a lamp to give extra daylight to my seedlings.  Any recommendations please? 

[alkanet]

those seed trays are quite small. 4" x 7"? Looks good though

[ed dibbles]

The one you are looking at is the same make as the one I use except I paid about £15 less than the price quoted at TW&E. It is pretty useful, particularly if you want it on the window ledge, the bottom heat pad giving a nice even heat and with a little imagination you can fill it with quite a few early sowings.

I'm using it again already to get some early crops and flowering plants going, but since I also used all the small trays and lids for summer sowing too they are now scattered all over the place. I find seed pots in plastic bags just as good. I'm not always the most organized gardener.

So all in all a flexible propagator unless you are planning hundreds of plants at once.

This is the first year with the grow lights and I must say I'm  very impressed. A 14 watt led grow light panel and I have 16 tomato seedlings sown about 10 days ago , albeit the little potted micro kind, already showing their first true leaves. And some jalapenos already germinated after a few days. (I also have a small pentas plant flowering away like it's mid summer ) .

The lights are on for 14 hours a day and the growth so good I have ordered another one.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004PA08BC?*Version*=1&*entries*=0

This is the one I got but paid a couple of quid less by getting it from ebay rather than amazon.

Goodlife hinted that she uses them so may have a more comprehensive knowledge than me.

These gadgets certainly help with the itchy sowing fingers we seem to get once the shortest day is behind us.

[galina]

Is it the same as this one?

http://www.greenfingers.com/product.asp?dept_id=200798&pf_id=LS0284D

if so, as Ed says, you could save a bit by going elsewhere.

I bought mine from Aldi (many years ago).  it was 19 pounds or thereabouts and takes 2 full sized seed trays.  Still going well.  Saw similar sized models at the garden centre for over 60 pounds, which was way over budget.  Hope you find one you really like at an affordable price.

[goodlife]

I use one of these for my seedlings and young plants...and when they get bigger, I use two bulbs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca
Paired up with this light holder.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b ...which you can buy little bit cheaper from Wilkos or supermarket...I paid about £2 for mine.

I start mine in propagator...no light needed at that stage...and as soon as seeds germinate they get moved into this... (blue peter style... ) This is my 'mark one' that I did few years ago...but soon found out that all the 'fancy' extra effort with wood was unnecessary, that is now fine tuned into much more simple version...the light just clip on the edge of the storage box and that'll do just fine. The light create just enough warmth under the cardboard hood that it keeps seedlings comfy enough. You won't need to place it near windows as the light does the job for you. I've even had one lot growing under spare bed (gravel trays used there too).
So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box' under £15 and it will serve you for years! That version I use to grow things up to 8" tall and then they get too close to the light...then I get them into my home made 'grow tent'  ...that is another story...

Something I need to mention....I do support the light bulb as I did once had accident...placing piece of dowel across the box under the light bulb 'stem' as extra security. Some curious little animal did go to investigate what was in the box and knocked the heavy bulb (with fitting) down ....some time later I found fried up seedlings as result of that creature's nosiness..

[goodlife]

Oh...and as a propagator....I have few of these sort...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stewart-Essentials-Large-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-52cm-/251747897424?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item3a9d581050
....and one bigger similar to this... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Stewart-Large-52cm-Essentials-Electric-Heated-Seed-Propagator-/371149967419?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item566a43103b

But because I  have my light systems now...I find the smaller, full seed tray size ones is enough. Most years just one will be enough as I sow in small quantities at the time and keep taking out that have germinated to make room new lot of pots. Most 'ordinary' veg don't need much heat at all and they germinate perfectly amongst the plants under the lights saving space in propagator..that's when things truly get busy...

[goodlife]

See...it works...!

[ed dibbles]

Now that's the way to do it! Lovely

Those veg plants will be so much further forward when they are eventually let out of their box and into the bright spring sunshine meaning much earlier crops and consequently a longer cropping season.

Well done you! 

[goodlife]

Now that's the way to do it! Lovely

Those veg plants will be so much further forward when they are eventually let out of their box and into the bright spring sunshine meaning much earlier crops and consequently a longer cropping season.

Well done you! 

Err..yes..thank you...yes they were much forward when they were let out....those photos were taken couple of year ago. I just put them to show as evidence that the 'blue peter' way does work...

[ancellsfarmer]

Goodlife,
 I think I agree with your approach, basically keep your (cash) imputs to rock bottom.
I have been thinking upon the lines of germinating batches of seed(volume small), using raised temperature and then planting/ positioning to grow on,  requiring some warmth but needing light to produce sturdy rather than spindly seedlings. Also enabling the increasing separation as the plantlets develop.
This will be a warm tray ("incubator"), thermostatically controlled and a light assisted, timer controlled ,warmed and ventillated  "nursery"
box or tent
Small seeds call for fine medium, easily sterilised(microwave), whereas the growing on medium may well be "blocks"on trays(swiss roll)or standard modules 40 ,planted alternate cells or possibly Jiffy 7s

[Paulines7]

I arrived back today after spending Christmas with my son and when I went on line a short time ago, I was amazed to see all the replies to my post.  Thank you so much for your help in this matter. 

There is a lot for me to take in at the moment but your suggestions, Goodlife, regarding a light clipped on to a "Blue Peter" style box, look very good....and cheap too.  I will have to think the whole thing out carefully though as my two mischievous 16 month old cats have 24 hour access to the room in question and often jump up onto the working surface.  Last year I didn't start any plants off indoors but waited until late march/ early April and started them off in the greenhouse.  As a consequence, none of my chilli plants got big enough to fruit.

I will go through your links again in the morning when I have a clear head.  I am still undecided on the size of propagator to get but will definitely get two of those bulbs and holders that you suggested, Goodlife.

Thank you all once again for your replies.

[jimc]

My winter might not be as long and dark or cold as yours but I make use of our water heater to gather heat for my seedling raising trays.
I sit the trays on top of it during the night and they stay there during germination and cloudy/rainy days. During the day they are moved outside into fresh sunlit air. I have a plastic cloche over them to make a micro environment, trapping in warmth, keeping out cold and lifting the humidity.
This system isn't totally controllable, but is cheap and works well for me.

[Paulines7]

Is it the same as this one?

http://www.greenfingers.com/product.asp?dept_id=200798&pf_id=LS0284D

if so, as Ed says, you could save a bit by going elsewhere.

I bought mine from Aldi (many years ago).  it was 19 pounds or thereabouts and takes 2 full sized seed trays.  Still going well.  Saw similar sized models at the garden centre for over 60 pounds, which was way over budget.  Hope you find one you really like at an affordable price.

Galina, the one I quoted in my original post has 14 seed trays plus lids.  The heater only takes 7 but once the seeds have germinated, the trays can be moved without disturbing the seedlings.  I haven't looked to see where it is cheapest yet but I didn't realise how small the trays were until alkanet pointed it out.

I use one of these for my seedlings and young plants...and when they get bigger, I use two bulbs.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-ES-E27-/200497172938?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eae9011ca
Paired up with this light holder.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-METER-CLIP-ON-SPOT-LIGHT-HOLDER-FLEXIBLE-MAINS-PORTABLE-FOR-BULBS-/301364728219?pt=UK_Light_Fittings&hash=item462abcd19b ...which you can buy little bit cheaper from Wilkos or supermarket...I paid about £2 for mine.

Goodlife, do you need an adapter to fit the bulb into those clip on light holders as they look as though they have bayonet fittings?  Alternatively, can you buy light holders with the right fittings for the bulbs.  John says he wouldn't be happy using an adapter.

My winter might not be as long and dark or cold as yours but I make use of our water heater to gather heat for my seedling raising trays.
I sit the trays on top of it during the night and they stay there during germination and cloudy/rainy days. During the day they are moved outside into fresh sunlit air. I have a plastic cloche over them to make a micro environment, trapping in warmth, keeping out cold and lifting the humidity.
This system isn't totally controllable, but is cheap and works well for me.

We have an oil fired boiler for central heating and water.  It has a working surface over it but it is in an area where we prepare and cook a lot of food.  I have my halogen cooker,  breadmaker and steamer in there and OH also makes his wine there, so it is chock a block with things.  During the day it would be far too cold to have the seedlings outside.  I see you are in Australia jimc where I guess your winters are a lot milder than ours. 

[goodlife]

Goodlife, do you need an adapter to fit the bulb into those clip on light holders as they look as though they have bayonet fittings?  Alternatively, can you buy light holders with the right fittings for the bulbs.  John says he wouldn't be happy using an adapter.

No I haven't needed any adapters....the bulbs are just 'normal' bayonet and the clip holders are for 'normal' bulbs.
Though I didn't check what the clip holder in the link was like for fitting...it was just to show what sort in general I have chosen.
Those bulbs are HUGE in size...but the ends are just 'normal/standard' light bulb size.

Edit to add.....AHHH....I see what you mean...just looked at the links again..I posted 'screw in' type bulb link...they do them in bayonet too...I'll dig one out for you...back in sec..

HERE WE ARE....this the one I've got... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45w-Blue-Spectrum-6400k-CFL-grow-light-lamp-bulb-BC-B22-/200695971044?pt=UK_Baby_Baby_Feeding_Bottle_Warmers_Coolers_LE&hash=item2eba697ce4

[Paulines7]

Thanks Goodlife.   

[galina]

Galina, the one I quoted in my original post has 14 seed trays plus lids.  The heater only takes 7 but once the seeds have germinated, the trays can be moved without disturbing the seedlings.  I haven't looked to see where it is cheapest yet but I didn't realise how small the trays were until alkanet pointed it out.

Not wishing to be pedantic, it seems a huge price hike for 7 spare seed trays, which bought on their own would be much cheaper and sourced from supermarket packaging would be free.  Not difficult to make spare lids either. 

However, I love goodlife's seed sowing system.  Now that is elegant, the running costs are low as well as the setting up costs and (evidently  ) the results are very good too.  Thankyou for showing us.   

Good luck with those early sowings everybody. 

[kGarden]

I have two of those windowsill propagators, and 1/4 size trays + lids.

I have lots of spare trays, and a few spare lids.  Once a tray has germinated (and give it a few days / opening vents a bit more each day) they come off the propagator, and a few more days and the lids are off.  Its then usually a couple of weeks at least before pricking out, hence I find that somewhere between 2x and 3x the number of trays is about right. I don't think you need 2x the number of lids (although having some spares in case any break would be good, don't think I've broken any of mine as yet).

Gardman changed the shape of the trays a few years ago (so probably won't do it again soon?) and new Lids didn't fit old Trays, so perhaps worth getting more than you need?

I much prefer 1/4 size trays to full size.  If I manually space the seeds out I can get about 6 across the tray and 10 rows along it, so (absolute max :) ) thus a tray will do 60 seedlings (obviously more if you broadcast small seed). I don't grow that much of anything that I can remember, so I can have one tray per variety, or perhaps 2 or 3 varieties per tray if I only have 5 or 10 seeds of something.  Much easier to juggle than full sized trays IMHO.

If you are going to start super-early then propagator will provide the heat for germination, but sunlight is not enough, so to prevent plants getting drawn & leggy supplemental lighting would be needed.  Better to wait a bit before sowing, until the sunlight is stronger, but then when you do start the bottom heat will give you more even, and faster, germination.

This type are not thermostatically controlled, so just provide gentle bottom heat, so may not be "sufficient" for a cold room / windowsill, let alone a could / unheated greenhouse

[kGarden]

So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box'

Kitchen foil is, apparently, not a good reflector.  Sounds counter intuitive to me ... but when I researched it flat-white card, or paint (not gloss) is close to as good as it gets (Mylar being best, but very expensive).

[goodlife]

So a bulb, clip on holder, bit of tape and silver foil, carboard/storage box and you can have yourself 'grow box'

Kitchen foil is, apparently, not a good reflector.  Sounds counter intuitive to me ... but when I researched it flat-white card, or paint (not gloss) is close to as good as it gets (Mylar being best, but very expensive).

It certainly has worked for me...and it is to do more with preventing light escaping into surrounding room, 'keeping the light in'  than thinking of reflection only. I don't know how much difference there is different surfaces...haven't done any research...but if it was good enough for old Geoff as windowsill reflector material, it certainly is good enough for me too.
Have you seen those grow tents that are commercially available for growing 'certain' crops?.. they have silver reflective material surface inside... but once you close the 'zip'...the light is and stay in for optimum effect and growth...for 'certain' kind of crops...

[kGarden]

It certainly has worked for me...and it is to do more with preventing light escaping into surrounding room, 'keeping the light in'  than thinking of reflection only. I don't know how much difference there is different surfaces...haven't done any research...but if it was good enough for old Geoff as windowsill reflector material, it certainly is good enough for me too.

You might want to do the research - see what percentage of your wattage of light is being wasted, and the effects of hot-spots.  I used kitchen foil for years, and it seemed to me that it worked OK, but I've changed since reading the researched work. Other thing was that my foil reflector was "fragile" - it got caught on things, torn and so on over a couple of seasons and I was lazy to repair /replace it, and the flat-white materials that I use now are less trouble in that sense.

Might be that the amounts involved are small, but from memory of the research it was enough to be worth considering.

Have you seen those grow tents that are commercially available for growing 'certain' crops?.. they have silver reflective material surface inside... but once you close the 'zip'...the light is and stay in for optimum effect and growth...for 'certain' kind of crops...

For a high-value crop I would guess that the inner lining is Mylar - looks quite like aluminium-foil at a glance.