Topic: Problem with plot holder, advice please

[Squash64]

One of our plot holders brings his dog to the site and walks it around, often
off the lead.  He also walks it up and down the paths between plots.  I do not
think he should do this.  I was working on my plot once and he suddenly appeared
behind me and gave me a fright because I didn't expect anyone to be there.

A plot holder told me that he walked up her path with his dog to get to an
area of grass at the back of her plot.  She does not want him to do this and
in the past has found dog poo on her path.

I've attached a map showing the layout of our site.  It is possible for him to get
to the grass areas without walking up and down paths between plots but bearing
in mind that our site is set within a park, it would also be easy for him to walk
the dog in the park.

This is really bothering me, especially because his dog hates cats and the feral
cats live at the top of my plot.

Am I being unreasonable?  What happens on other sites, are people able to
walk anywhere they like?

[sleepymrsp]

On our site dogs have to be kept on a lead. My daughter is terrified of them and we're pleased that so far every one we've seen has obeyed the rules on that one.

[OllieC]

I hate most dogs and the owners who are selfish enough to inflict their disease ridden, parasite carrying wolf descendants upon those of us who don't really like them so I think you are being entirely reasonable. My old site had a no dogs off a lead policy but a couple of old timers ignored it. They looked confused when I moaned about it - as though anyone could not love their little pooches defecating on their vegetable patch!

[artichoke]

This is a difficult one. One of my sites has a prominent notice about no dogs, but a plot holder brought his anyway, saying "She can't read...."  but he kept her under control and it was not a problem. This site now has high fences - before they were put up, dog walkers brought their dogs into the field to run about, and I was actually knocked over by one leaping at me while I was bent down planting things. I snapped at the youth walking it, and he looked abashed, but...... I am glad we now have fences.

Another site, plot holder brings his, a nervous dog that lies down and behaves. No problem.

My daughter's Greenwich site: a neighbouring plot holder brings a jumpy poodle down with the family. Daughter is embarrassed by me, but I have said firmly to this family that we are planting delicate seedlings, and however small the dog is, it can damage them "and we don't like broken seedlings......"  I have noticed that on subsequent visits, she carries the dog.... It helps that my 2 yr old grand daughter sobs bitterly when the little dog jumps up at her.

It is unacceptable that dogs can run about among our seedlings and jump up at us. You have to explain to the owners that dogs are not allowed on allotments because of damage - and paths between plots belong to the plot holders, not to the Public.

Good luck.....some people love their animals so much that they cannot understand why the rest of us do not, until we tell them.

[sleepymrsp]

We get people trying to bring dogs into our shop all the time. I'm horrendously allergic to them at the moment and the moment one walks in I can feel an asthma attack brewing. I don't get why on earth you'd bring a dog into a shop and since when it's been acceptable to do so to be honest! It's like people are blind to them.

Mind I have children, another acquired taste!

[taurus]

Its in the council rules dogs must be on leads and kept under control at all times.  I have 1 lady who is terrified of dogs and the problem for us is the site is very small (21 half plots).  It's surrounded by houses and if there's a dog running loose you can bet it's from there.  So far we have been lucky that 1 of the plot holders that is also a dog owner as been on site to deal with the problem.
I think this person needs to be told to keep to the park.  Do you have anything in your rules about dogs?  It sound to me as though he's using the dog as an excuse to had a good look round.  I think this gent needs to be kept an eye on.  Sorry to sound so negative, but I'm afraid I'm not so trusting as I used to be.
Squash64 I think you must have the patience of a saint, and no your not being unreasonable.

[Squash64]

I don't think I explained the problem very well - it's the fact that the man
thinks he has a right to walk down the paths between plots that is bothering
me.  (I love dogs, but I would not bring my two to the site because I'd never
get any work done.)  I don't like the way this bloke can suddenly appear
on a plot when I don't think he has any right to be there.  It's different if
a friend invites people on to the plot but he goes wherever he pleases.  I think
the plot should be like a back garden, you wouldn't expect the neighbours to
be walking through it to get somewhere else.

Thanks for the replies so far and sorry I didn't explain properly before. 

[Digeroo]

I am not sure I totally understand the setup.  Are the paths you are talking about part of the plot or marked areas between plots.   If they are part of the plot then surely people do not have the right to use them.

We have problems with people walking across other peoples plots, it sends me nuts.  I do not have paths, I have planting opportunities.  I put canes into the ground as a temporary gate, which I then more when I am there.  We also have problems with children playing hide and seek.  That sends me nuts too.

We also have problems with dogs.  Several people bring dogs with them and most are under control but we have started to get problems with little piles about the place.

We also have problems with people walking through the site as a shortcut with and without dogs. 

I have problems with dogs because some decide for no apparent reason to dislike me and start growling and then I get very tense which upsets the dog even more.

Personally I do not think allotments should be used as a dog lavatory.

[davyw1]

Stated in law an open gate does not mean right of access, you are the leesee of the property and no person has the right to enter it without your permission, even your landlord should give you 24 hours notice.  BUT

Unless the law has changed a person can walk onto or into your property and providing they do not or intend to, steal, damage or harm anything or person etc there is nothing you can do about it. You may want to look up Civil Trespass (Simple Trespass)
I think your best option is to point out that it is causing you concern that he is using your property as a short cut, that you are a bit unsuere of dogs and that as the dog is not under control he would be liable for and damage it may cause (Dogs Act) and that you would be greatfull if he would use another route

[Squash64]

This is a photo of my path.  My plot is on the left and my neighbour's
on the right.  The man walks up my path to the top, between mine and my
neighbour's greenhouse and through to the grassed area at the back
where the trees are.  There are paved paths like this between every
two plots all over the site.

I am afraid it is impossible to reason with this man.  I have asked him
to keep his dog on a lead and told him not to let it go on my plot and
eat the cat food but as soon as I mention the word 'cat' he loses
control and starts to rant about the 'effin cats' (he doesn't say 'effin')

I fully realise that it is not an ideal situation to have cats on allotments
but they were feral and these days tend to stay on or very near my
plot.  Regardless of what he says, I intend to keep feeding them and
caring for them.

My concern is that he will do something to the cats to harm them. 

It's people like this who make me feel like giving up being the secretary.

[shirlton]

This man who Betty is talking about told me that there was only one thing wrong with our allotment site and that was people like me in fact women. He is not a reasonable man and has shouted a Betty more than once. He doesn't have to like cats but he also doesn't have to terrorise them with his dog . He knows that his dog goes up to the back of Bettys plot where the cats sleep. The only thing I can think of to do would be to put a gate at the front of your plot but then why should you. Most people obey the Council rules but there are always some that think that they are above them. I do hope that this nastiness doesn't make Betty stop being our Secretary because if that happened then Walsall Rd Allotments wouldn't be such a nice place to garden.

[pumkinlover]

He definitely has no right to let his dog off the lead.
It does make it difficult that you have the feral cats, he could say that he does not approve of the cats being free to wander, unfortunately what he is doing makes it more likely that the cats will leave your plot and go on other peoples.
As for giving up being secretary we all feel like that at times , at the end of the day you probably need to stay in the position to be able to ensure that the cats are cared for on the site. Have you discussed this at committee? I think that you have the support of the majority to continue to care for the feral cats. If you feel confident in that then I would suggest that you put this to the next com. meeting and ask your allotment officer at the council wether the paths between the plots are part of the site as a whole or a part of each plot.
I would guess that the man in question is doing this to undermine/ upset/ annoy you. If you decide to pack up being secretary he has won.

Good luck, you are a great secretary, that's what people like him cannot stand!

ETA- our rules state dogs should be on a lead and any "products" cleared up- what do your say- if he is in breach of the rules - Bye bye Mr Nasty!

[Borlotti]

That is such a shame, and unnecessary.  We have plenty of dogs on our allotments, but all are either on a lead or so well trained.  One just sleeps on his mat under the tree, he has his walk around the playing fields after the allotment. He always comes to me and gives me big kisses, but I like dogs, and his owner calls him back.  I am sure that the owners appreciate being able to bring their dogs to the allotments but they have to be on a lead, and have had no complaints so far.  We also have cats on the allotment, but they come from the surrounding houses to hunt.  Maybe if the feral cats get very tame they could be rehoused before the winter, but I don't know.  Just read in my magazine that 'in ancient Egypt the penalty for killing a cat was death'.  Poor you, he sounds a nasty, unreasonable man, and maybe if he won't keep the dog on a lead he and the dog should be banned from the allotments. I walk on the paths, as I am nosy and like to look at other people's plots, but don't have a dog.  Most of the people I know, but I wouldn't walk on their allotments, only the paths. Keep smiling.

[grannyjanny]

We have a pristine plot on our site & when we first got our plot we used to like to wander down the path. we did tell the person & the next time we went up there was a gate. We thought it might be a hint so didn't do it again .

[Squash64]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Our 'official' council rules do say that dogs must be kept on a lead
at all times.  For some unknown reason this man does not think they
apply to his dog.  Recently I have seen it on the lead, but then he
told me that it had been on my plot after the cats so it obviously isn't
on the lead all the time.


We have a committee meeting this week and I will bring it up for
discussion.  I think we need to approach this man as a committee,
rather than just me doing it on my own all the time. 

[pumkinlover]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Our 'official' council rules do say that dogs must be kept on a lead
at all times.  For some unknown reason this man does not think they
apply to his dog.  Recently I have seen it on the lead, but then he
told me that it had been on my plot after the cats so it obviously isn't
on the lead all the time.


We have a committee meeting this week and I will bring it up for
discussion.  I think we need to approach this man as a committee,
rather than just me doing it on my own all the time. 

Definitely!!

[cornykev]

Like you said betty do it as a committee or its always you he'll argue with. We have some unsettled lottie holders on site who are acusing each other of this and that. One who seems to be the spokesperson brings a dog on site and he is no problem at all, even though its not on a lead, but I'm thinking with a new lot of lotties on site other dogs may come on and may be a problem if they're all off the lead. The rules state they should be on a lead 

[Robert_Brenchley]

BCC Rule 7.1 says: 'Any dog (including Guide Dogs) brought onto the Site must be kept on a lead at all times.' I'm all in favour of being flexible about rules, but the animal is evidently being a nuisance, and from the sound of it, the guy is being abusive, which is also a breach of the rules. A complaint to the Council might be in order.

[elvis2003]

Good idea not to approach him alone Betty. I have learnt this one the hard way! I always copy someone else into emails now, and if someone asks me 'can I have a quiet word with you alone?' , I say no!

[gazza1960]

We had some issues with young children trampling over plots so a mass mail was sent to all plot holders reminding everybody of their responsibilities to make sure children are under control and therefore will not come to any harm if playing unsupervised.
So a similar mass mail could target dog owners bullet pointing the rules,it may not be a direct contact with the person you mention Betty,but at least they won't see you as victimising them,but the issue will be addressed.

Gazza