Topic: Simply sign and return?

[Unwashed]

Just one more quicky if I may..... Can they now give themselves permission to declare the land private and to rent plots to people not from the parish? The land is supposed to belong to us, the people of Bodelwyddan, no?

Them declaring the land "private" is all part of their confusion, because it always was private.  It happened to be owned by the parish council, but that didn't in itself give anyone else a right to be there, and now that the parish is leasing the site to the allotment society the allotment society is doing nothing more than it is entitled to by restricting access to tenants and anyone who the tenant authorises.

The notice you've received has no authority as it is not served by your landlord, who unless I've misunderstood the situation is the parish council.  If you're leaving the site anyways then there's no harm in writing to the society (and copied to the council) telling them that the notice you've received is unenforceable because the society is not your landlord - I'm assuming that the society is not currently managing the site on behalf of the council?

I think you could invite the society to discuss with you their concerns over that cup of tea they mentioned as you may yet defuse the situation

You might like to remind the society that when they take a lease from the council they become your landlord but that your current tenancy agreement continues with the same terms and conditions, and that the tenancy agreement does not allow the society to impose new terms and conditions without agreement, and that you do not agree to any changes.  You might tell the society that you are not happy with the tenancy agreement that the society proposes and that you would be more than happy to discuss your concerns with them.

If the council leases the site to an allotment society then I don't think the society is bound by the same restriction on letting plots to parishioners that bind the council, though they may be.  If the council acquired the site in trust then the terms of that trust may continue to bind the society, and it may also happen that the terms of the allotments act take effect as a trust, but it's not worth the argument because you're never going to afford to challenge the society even if you have the standing to do so, which you might not.  By rights the council should write the requirements of the allotments act, and also a bunch of other protections into the lease they grant the society, and if they haven't done that then they've not acted very well, but I don't think you can do much about that now.

I'm just really sorry every time I hear about allotmenteers getting grief like this because I feel so strongly that the allotment movement is being weakened by this kind of stuff, and I'm grieved too that allotmenteers are not universally getting fair treatment.

[sleepymrsp]

sounds like the council are letting the site to the allotment committee and you are renting a licence to cultivate that plot rather than letting the plot directly from the council. put simply i would go and find your nearest law centre and go for a little chat. a lot of solicitors will do a free hour as well so that might be worth looking at.

If you had a lease directly between you and the council then no one has the right to take that away, unless of course you are in breach of the tenancy. Does strike me as interesting that you have not returned a document and now they are raising the fence issue. Do you have a copy of your original lease?

I guess it all depends on what you want to get out of it really. if you want to stay then you have every right to fight it. if you want to cut your losses then its their loss!

[Nigel B]

So I wrote a short explanatory note on the back of one of the letters, telling them what you said about the council being my landlord and them not having jurisdiction.
Here's today's registered letter!




bags1 by Nefariousenator, on Flickr


bags2 by Nefariousenator, on Flickr


The answer to your 'What do you want to achieve here Nigel?' question has changed somewhat.

[Unwashed]

PM sent.

[Digeroo]

Surely if they have accepted your money than you have an agreement whether you sign or not.

Mind you looks like your face somehow does not fit.  I am not sure that whatever you do will be acceptable to them.

Seems like Bags by name and bags by nature.   

[Nigel B]

Thank you Unwashed, for a very thoughtful and informative pm.
I can't make it public as that might prove detrimental to what seems to be becoming, an ongoing campaign to have the allotments returned to the control of a democratically-elected committee.

I keep you all posted as soon as I can.
Meanwhile, if anyone has an opinion. For or against, its all goo. Carry on!

Digeroo: Backstabbers and Greedy Sh**s? ;-)

[Unwashed]

Surely if they have accepted your money than you have an agreement whether you sign or not.

Exactly.  Allotment tenancy agreements do not have to be in writing, it is enough that the council has accepted rent as this shows unequivocally that a tenancy exists.  It does however make it difficult for the council to enforce any allotment rules and regulations because there is no evidence that the tenant knew anything about them or was agreeing to them.

Ironically enough the new Society's attempt to terminate the tenancy for a breach of its rules is also enough to prove that a tenancy exists because the Society is unequivocally treating the tenancy as existing - you can't very well write to someone threatening to terminate their tenancy and then deny that the tenancy exists!

[Nigel B]

Unwashed, I was asked by these people if you would be interested in helping advise people losing the plot. :-)

http://www.dontlosetheplot.org/

[Unwashed]

Unwashed, I was asked by these people if you would be interested in helping advise people losing the plot. :-)

http://www.dontlosetheplot.org/

PM sent.

[Nigel B]

So....

Sometime over the holiday period............ I don't know exactly when because I have been ill and unable to get down there......
My shed has been destroyed and the site cleared of the rabbit-proof  fencing. Rabbit-holes aplenty, and the remains of the shed and fence, minus some twenty square metres of artificial turf that is missing completely, has been piled up on an empty plot. Even my compost bin (broken), tools, deckchairs, and whatever else you can think of.
On the plot is just the base of the shed, a few pallets and lots of broken pieces here and there.

(I have pictures but no usb cable for now. I'll post them when I can)

'Tis a sad day. If I hadn't been Ill, the weak-kneed B******s wouldn't have gone near it.

[Jayb]

So sorry to read your news Nigel, not nice people.