Topic: Soil leeching of nutrients

[Digeroo]

Our soil is very free draining so nutrient leech out in the winnter ,so to combat this I grow green manures.  Very concerned about leeching in the current rainy conditions. 
Do any members from rainer areas of the country have any advice.

Is it a good idea to apply fertilizer on a little and often basis.

I put out a bucket full of BFB at the weekend I do hope the plants sucked it up at double quick time.

[davyw1]

I think it comes down to whether you grow Organic or Inorganic. plant depth and depth of soil to the clay base.
Nutrients leech out quicker growing organic than they do inorganic.
As i am only 200 metres away from the north sea i would normally be 3 to 4 weeks behind other parts of the country, it can be lovely and sunny a mile in land and i cant see 50 metres for a sea fret, so my conditions are cooler and damper.
Some recomend when putting in cauli, cabbages etc burry them up to the seed leaf, ming as deep as i can get them so the groing tip is just above ground and the root is a deep as i can get it because thats where my nutrient are going to go.
I think FB&B is one of the best ferilizers out but as it is soluble it dilutes qyicker therefor leeches out quicker so i use growmore as it is solid pelits it desolves slower so does not leech out quicker.
I dont scatter it over the ground but place it arround the base of the plant making sure none is touching the plant as it contains ammonia.

None of what i have said realy answers your question simply becaus i have to grow i bit different to most but i do know that 4 hours of rain will have washed out most nutrients from soil down to the clay so if your roots are at thet level they should be fine.
I have nearly always give my garden a seconed mid season feed anyway so i dont see you doing any harm in giving your plants another feed if you think they are flagging a bit.

A few photos of my my state of play so far

[Digeroo]

We do not have a clay base.  We have gravel, a bit like gardening in a sieve. At home we on a bank a few feet deep, on the lottie it has been removed and filled with inert rubbish, some say it is the waste diggings from the M4 motorway.

I thought that the nutrients leeched out slower with organic, since I incorporated lots of bio matter.

[davyw1]

Ah! A difference of terminoligy as to fertalizer i dont class manure as a fertalizer, i do agree it does a great job but it also lacks the smaller amounts of nutriants required so my prefference is to use both, i also agree that if you have incorperated manure the soil will leach out slower but we have had a lot of rain.
I put some cauli,s in this morning where my earlies have come out of so to cover the odds i put both a circle of FB&B and growmore arround each plant, the FB&B will activate before the growmore as it is quick release, then the growmore will do the job afterwards as it is slow release.
A lot comes down to knowing your soil and as are on a gravel base there is nothing to hold anything back for the plant roots to feed off other than the manure.

[Digeroo]

Very much enjoy your pics, I have many more weeds.  My parsnips are above knee height and some potatoes waist height,  slugs have had most of my brassicas.

I also suffer from pigeons, deer, rabbits, pheasants, so almost everything netted.

And carrots - what carrots?

[davyw1]

I supose where i am has some benifits we do have rabbits but they dont live long. Although surounded by national trust and farm land never had problems with pigions and we have good fencing so the deer cant get in.

Just to remind you what carrots look like
Little carrots



Bigger carrots



And thems the bigger still carrots

[pumkinlover]

This is what inspires me-- fantastic set up there. DavyB

[Digeroo]

Carrots.  :P :P  Where is the green with envy emoticon?

[Vinlander]

Hi Digeroo,

The problem you have is very similar to the problems of growing crops in cleared Amazon forest. Modern agriculture makes a mess of it.

The solution was discovered by the indigenous peoples 600 years ago and lost until recently.

Look up 'Terra Preta' on Google etc.  This is NOT bull$#!t - it is cutting-edge practical archaeology.

The solution is basically charcoal - it holds nutrients like a sponge and it takes thousands of years to rot away (it is also obviously the best and safest carbon sink technology).

It doesn't have to be high quality charcoal - as the natives found, just smothering your bonfire will produce partially carbonised result. The carbon remains for centuries, the uncarbonised stuff rots into humus and is gone in a decade. Win - Win all round.

If you live near a traditionally managed forest you could try blagging your way to a nice big bag of waste charcoal dust for a trial bed.

Charcoal is nothing like as dodgy as soot, but you might still want to use similar precautions by starting the bed with fruit (including toms, peppers, courgettes, beans, peas etc.) because fruit/seeds are protected from any soil toxins by the parent plant. The following year should be fine for everything except roots, and the year after for everything.
 
Ideal particle size is small - up to a few mm.

Cheers.

[Digeroo]

Funny I saw a charcoal making device the other day.   I have read about this will do some more reading.   

Finally put down some slug pellets to protect carrots.  Huge number of slugs.

[Digeroo]

Many thanks for this seems to tie in with quite a few interests.  Biochar, mycorrhiza, global warming, soil leeching all seem to be very interesting connections. 

[Gordonmull]

Now, charcoal might just be woth a shot. It's already being used in water purification and is being pioneered in oil/water seperation also, and it's for similar reasons - it's ability to soak stuff up. 

Source is obviously highly important especially if making your own. Don't want to take any wood from a bioremediation site or anything. I was considering making a small charcoaler a few years back before i moved away from the house on the edge of a forest. All you need, if memory serves, is a steel 50gal drum and a bit of pipe a yard long.

I'd be uneasy about partially charcoaling the wood, though. As you're probably aware you'd get ash-lye as well, affecting your soil acidity.

It's very interesting reading though. I wonder what it would do to clay? Might set up a few pots and time drainage with different quantities of charcoal added.

[Digeroo]

I have found Oxford Uni doing a project.  So signed up.

I have a plot I used for a tomato experiment last year so the soil has had controlled regime for sometime.   

Dwarf beans already chitting.

http://www.bigbiocharexperiment.co.uk/index.html

I am not really worried about partially charcoaled wood, always used to have an annual bonfire and then gave runner beans the remains.   I always thought it was very beneficial.

The place where I had the fire is now shoulder high in stinging nettles years later they are still huge.

[goodlife]

Digeroo...have you got a woodburner?..or do you know who has one. When I empty wood ashes from mine..there is always lot of small charcoal pieces left once the the ash is sieved out. I'm sure anybody who has got woodburner would produce more than they need of 'waste' and would be please if somebody would take some of it off from their hands...particularly if they don't have allotment to use it up themselves.

[Digeroo]

No woodburner but do have an open fire, but difficult to stop OH putting coal on it when I am not watching.   Actually leaves very little waste.   Might try damping it down with a view to creating more char.   

Might try some old fashioned charcoal creation in a hole in the ground.   It would be interersting to wonder how the ancient amazonians did it.

Will take part in the experiment.   It will be interesting to see if biochar can be a win win, by improving crops as well as locking up Carbon.   I am releasing carbon through petrol consumption and gas central heating.  Not sure one small lottie/garden will lock up enough to make a difference.

When I first dug my garden I found odd patches of dark black soil about 18 inches down, which proved very productive.     

[goodlife]

I can remember where I found the info of making your own biochar..but it was basically just putting some woodchippings into empty chockie tin..lid on and on barbeque or any other fire and 'roasting' the chippings until black. As they are closed envinronment they don't burn into ashes.
But if you do try this...do use dry chippings as wet/fresh ones would take lot of time and I suspect it could end up with 'bang'..unless you make tiniest little hole on lid to allow steam to get out but no air to enter.

[Digeroo]

This is soooo the right moment, just thrown out a rusty tin.   

[telboy]

Interesting thread guys. On the point of woodburners, when I sweep the s/s liner the ash is like sand and there's no mess like coal soot.
Do you think the ash is OK for the veg. area? Do I mix it with anything?
Ta!

[goodlife]

Interesting thread guys. On the point of woodburners, when I sweep the s/s liner the ash is like sand and there's no mess like coal soot.
Do you think the ash is OK for the veg. area? Do I mix it with anything?
Ta!

I know what you mean for its not being 'soot like'..but..as it comes from 'chimney' I treat it same as soot and don't use it anywhere amongst veg. I don't actually know if it would do any harm/good but the potential for being harmfull is there....so I don't take any chances.
If you do want to use it or try it...I would recommend to allow it to 'weather' first..just like soot to ensure it is not too strong....or try it around few plants first and see if there is any adverse effects before spreading it any further.
When I use ash on my beds, I mix it first with damp compost..stops ash being blown away with wind and it less messy job... making similar mix with your sweepings would not hurt neither.