Topic: Riots in north London

[Nigel B]

Nigel,I am still trying to work out how a corrupt government and greedy bankers is an excuse for looting ,burning and taking the lives of others. ::)

Then read a little of our recent history Betula. While I absolutely do not condone the hugely sad loss of life that occurred, civil disturbance does make these things happen.  And remember, despite the outrage at these 'kids' the media has managed to raise, they are not ALL kids. Not by a long way. I saw plenty of white middle-aged people in the riots early on, and some of them lying on the pavement having been detained. Young AND old of all races and creeds.
There is plenty to protest about in this Country... Unless of course you are happy to settle for a life lived under crooks and hypocrites who will steal from your directly AND make you refill the pot they stole from.....

Remember that horrible waste of flesh, Harriet Harmon who, after being caught red-bloody handed stealing from the Nation, sat in her office waving a cheque saying it was an error and she was going to pay it back.....?
Now then. If YOU had deliberately stolen that money, do you think YOU'D be allowed to simply offer to pay it back? No, nor me. And this woman still sits in The Commons doing her best to dismantle democracy in favour of a surveillance state, a police state, a state where every journey is logged, every purchase logged. Every bus journey, every walk, watched and recorded...... Just in case they act like her and steal or commit other crimes equal to the rioting......  Smashing up restaurants and crockery as other terrified diners looked on... Oh yes! Our glorious leaders were doing the very same things, in their 20's I might add, as the twelve-year olds they want lock up with their parents now!
These are the kids' role-models? And also remember who is guilty of putting these people into power.... Do you vote Betula? Then you are.

I was bought up on a Inner city Birmingham council estate,we had little more than our roof and food to eat but we stepped out into life determined to make a good life for ourselves and we did.It would not have occurred to any of us to behave in such a way as this.The kids who think they have nothing nowadays have no idea how hard life can really be and they seem to want it all handed them on a plate............save me the Bleeding hearts. >:(

Oh I think they do. I'm in my 50's now and I'd HATE to be a kid today. Bleeding hearts nothing, try brutalised and disenfranchised youth without ever a hope of bettering themselves....
 

I still say bring the Army in,though thankfully it seems to have calmed down now.I am not suggesting the Army kill these people but have no objection to them being roughed up a bit.

'Roughed up a bit'? Is that what you think the army do Betula? I was in the Army in the early 70's. Saw plenty of rioting thanks. And if anyone got themselves 'roughed up', they were lucky.

If we are to turn the Army out, turn them out to protect the Crown, and let the bankers and their political mates swing for the enormous amount of damage they are still doing to this Country!  Then I'd settle for nothing less than heads on pikes at Traitor's Gate!

Melbourne12:

So you're very happy to see murder done in the furtherance of your own political ends, just not those of other people.

'Nuff said.

My concern is for Democracy itself Melbourne12, not just which party to put into power. The Nation does that by a free and fair vote.
Besides, this Country was born of revolution after revolution, fight after fight. Occasionally, we need to 'reset' the Democratic movement back to it's basic functions so the greedy and corrupt are either brought to justice or expelled to where they can no longer harm the Nation.

[lincsyokel2]

My concern is for Democracy itself Melbourne12, not just which party to put into power. The Nation does that by a free and fair vote.
Besides, this Country was born of revolution after revolution, fight after fight. Occasionally, we need to 'reset' the Democratic movement back to it's basic functions so the greedy and corrupt are either brought to justice or expelled to where they can no longer harm the Nation.

You ARE aware that the Lisbon treaty put in place powers for the EU to entirely quash all democracy in the is and every other european nation. At any point it chooses it can 1. declare all political parties except the ones it chooses as  illegal. 2. declare all national elections illegal and 3. close down parliament.  The Lisbon Treaty even made it illegal to oppose the EU, as Marta Andreasen found out

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1568852/Sacked-EU-whistleblower-loses-claim.html

In 2005 Labour also passed a  pernicious piece of legislation called the Civil Contingencies Act whiich gives the government all sort of appalling powers to walk all over  your civil liberties, including siezing you house or business, and compelling you or banning you from living in specified places - for example, they can order you to live in Hastings, or ban you from entering the West Midlands, no court order required.  It also allows them to impose curfews and require you to attend police stations or place you under house arrest. They havent wheeled this power out yet, i suspect there saving it for when the riots occur when we are forcibly annexed into the EU Superstate.

The most important step required to regain control of our country, and restore it back to its former glory is to seize control of it back from the evil EU, whose only intent for us is our complete destruction and integration into a EU superstate by means of imposing political correctness on us (see my previous post), where we will be a minority of 60 million, and our fate in the hands of 450 million of our former historic enemies, and lets face it, you have to be mentally retarded to imagine they are going to work in the best interests of our country - we've seen the Eu and its members such as France and Germany in action over the years in respect of the way they treat us.

BTW, the server is taking a long time to respond to edits and posts, there either doing maintenance on it, a backup, or its about to go tits up.

[Borlotti]

Pictures of the smoke from the warehouse that was burnt in Enfield.  I thought it was going to rain, when I was at the allotment until I was told it was smoke, at least they can't moan if I light a bonfire.  Second picture from Enfield playing fields which is next to our allotments.

[valmarg]

we only seem to get this kind of trouble when a conservative gov is in power

Possibly because they are left with the miserable job of clearing up after the previous defunct labour administration. >:( >:(

valmarg

[Nigel B]

we only seem to get this kind of trouble when a conservative gov is in power

Possibly because they are left with the miserable job of clearing up after the previous defunct labour administration. >:( >:(

valmarg

I'll give a virtual-fiver to the first one that can get a ciggy-paper between any of their policies in the long run as far as we're concerned.
lincsyokel2. Mate, I can't argue with a word of what you said...

Oh... And Nick Clegg.. Another pillar of our society. ....

 Nick Clegg gets asked about his arson conviction. 11/08/2011

Unbelievable!  ::)

[OllieC]

The Nick Clegg thing - he burned a few cacti (one at a time) as a drunk teenager. His punishment was to repay the professor (owner of the collection) by doing hard graft in the baking sun and finding the best replacements they could, with his mother, driving all over the country to other specialist collections. If people can't see the difference then frankly they're a bit dim.

You can dislike Nick Clegg for many things (I have a long list, in fact) but being a bit silly as a child, and losing all sense of social responsibility, looting, smashing stuff & fighting with the police are entirely different.

[Bugloss2009]

arson comes easy to Nick Clegg. burning all those Lib Dem manifestos last May

[Nigel B]

The Nick Clegg thing - he burned a few cacti (one at a time) as a drunk teenager. His punishment was to repay the professor (owner of the collection) by doing hard graft in the baking sun and finding the best replacements they could, with his mother, driving all over the country to other specialist collections. If people can't see the difference then frankly they're a bit dim.

You can dislike Nick Clegg for many things (I have a long list, in fact) but being a bit silly as a child, and losing all sense of social responsibility, looting, smashing stuff & fighting with the police are entirely different.

'As a child' ;D..... Clegg wants to jail twelve-year-olds, and their parents, for doing just what he did as a drunken 'teenager' in his 20's. ..... And just because his parents can afford to jolly him around the country buying replacement cacti, doesn't make him any less guilty of arson!
I would also refute the suggestion I am a bit dim, based purely on Clegg's criminal record.

[OllieC]

I thought he was 16? And Clegg doesn't have a criminal record.

I didn't see that Clegg wants to jail the parents - and I'm a bit surprised to hear this...

Finally, to help you see the difference:

Case 1.
Rioting, looting, hundreds of millions of pounds in damage, lives in danger, people killed, parents who are indifferent.

Case 2.
A few cacti in a family friend's greenhouse. Parents get involved & make you make amends.

If you think these two cases are comparable, then yes, you are a bit dim, sorry.  :-*

[Nigel B]

I thought he was 16? And Clegg doesn't have a criminal record.

I didn't see that Clegg wants to jail the parents - and I'm a bit surprised to hear this...

Finally, to help you see the difference:

Case 1.
Rioting, looting, hundreds of millions of pounds in damage, lives in danger, people killed, parents who are indifferent.

Case 2.
A few cacti in a family friend's greenhouse. Parents get involved & make you make amends.

If you think these two cases are comparable, then yes, you are a bit dim, sorry.  :-*

You're probably right..... Fancy me comparing a young arsonist with a young arsonist..... ::)

[Mr Smith]

 To sort these little shits out bring back,  Approved Schools, Detention Centres and Borstals, and if that don't work send them to me at  'Mr Smiths Bad Lads Army', you little *fatherless children* you need a fackin good all round kickin off an old hairy arse squaddie, :)

[claybasket]

Mr smith ,Love your style,can't stop laughing,at the hair arse bit what a hoot.

[OllieC]

I thought he was 16? And Clegg doesn't have a criminal record.

I didn't see that Clegg wants to jail the parents - and I'm a bit surprised to hear this...

Finally, to help you see the difference:

Case 1.
Rioting, looting, hundreds of millions of pounds in damage, lives in danger, people killed, parents who are indifferent.

Case 2.
A few cacti in a family friend's greenhouse. Parents get involved & make you make amends.

If you think these two cases are comparable, then yes, you are a bit dim, sorry.  :-*

You're probably right..... Fancy me comparing a young arsonist with a young arsonist..... ::)

Nigel, it's been bugging me this (my response to you) - I don't think you're "a bit dim" & it was an inappropriate choice of phrase. I was with a bunch of Lib Dems last night discussing, amongst other things, Nick Clegg and his plant burning days. A close friend & active Lib Dem told me I'm the one who's being a bit dim, so that's me told :-X

[Nigel B]

Nigel, it's been bugging me this (my response to you) - I don't think you're "a bit dim" & it was an inappropriate choice of phrase. I was with a bunch of Lib Dems last night discussing, amongst other things, Nick Clegg and his plant burning days. A close friend & active Lib Dem told me I'm the one who's being a bit dim, so that's me told :-X

Well blimey! ;) Thanks Ollie. ...


Still on the subject of our lawless leaders. Ever heard of The Bullingdon Dining Club?

"The Bullingdon modus operandi is to book a restaurant under a false name, smash it up, and throw large amounts of money at the upset owners — a form of behaviour which dates back to Victorian times."

Care to guess who have been active members?


These same people are calling for jail time for kids that were doing what they've been doing for years........Except these rich yobs were able to throw enough of daddy's money at people that enabled them to escape the law!

We need a thorough clean-out of our corrupt and dishonest politicians. From top to bottom.

[betula]

Oh well then thats all right then Nigel. >:(

Lets loot,burn and kill because a few upper class idiots carried on the old tradition. :o

I agree with you that the Mps who robbed the tax payer should have faced court
but The Burlington antics were well publicised before the election and they still got in ...............

[Nigel B]

Oh well then thats all right then Nigel. >:(

Lets loot,burn and kill because a few upper class idiots carried on the old tradition. :o

I agree with you that the Mps who robbed the tax payer should have faced court
but The Burlington antics were well publicised before the election and they still got in ...............

The point I was trying to make to you Betula, is that violence only begets violence.  To want to turn the Army on these people would be the very last option, one would hope, and only if the security of the Country itself was at stake.

The Burlington 'antics' were just the same as what went on last week.... Frightened diners watching out-of-control organised gangs smashing places up. The ONLY difference is that our glorious leaders had enough money to avoid incarceration.
That in itself demonstrates one of the differences between the haves and the have-not's. Do you see?
I'm not condoning rioting as such, but the reasons behind it are complex. If we don't understand what they are we are condemned to suffer riot after riot until we do..... One thing is certain though, violence is not the answer.
 

[betula]

The reasons behind it Nigel are that thieves saw a great opportunity to grab what they want.They thought they could get away with it and saw no harm in burning and killing along the way.

I don't think The Police should have to face that level of violence and I still think it was a job for the Army.

[Nigel B]

The reasons behind it Nigel are that thieves saw a great opportunity to grab what they want.They thought they could get away with it and saw no harm in burning and killing along the way.

I don't think The Police should have to face that level of violence and I still think it was a job for the Army.

The subject of police and violence is also complex. You saw, I assume, how they treated our kids during the uni fees protests, yes? Innocent kids beaten and kettled, sometimes with the parents that had come to collect them. Kids were beaten, some very badly, for expressing their frustration at the cost of their education. The police response was way over the top considering we are supposed to be a democracy where freedom of expression is one of the values we are supposed to hold dear.... and if they can hand out that level of violence, they can d**n well take it.

The thieves now being processed in court are the laggers, the slow of foot and wit that arrived late and got caught when the police finally decided the government was taking notice. The real instigators had moved on ages before, realising the police would only stand and watch for so long.
What's wrong here is not just a bunch of bad kids, but a system that has for the last fifteen years or so created no-go ghettos, a system of crime and no punishment, a lack of work and no prospects of ever getting any, and a legal system that is clearly split into two... One part for the haves, and one for the have-not's.
We have gone, almost overnight, from a country with a welfare system that was the envy of the civilised world, to the threat of water-cannon and baton rounds on the streets, and the disruption of the mobile networks to disallow communication between innocent and guilty alike.
In fact, all the things we try to change in regimes in other countries such as Lybia, Syria etc. Would you like to start shooting rioters Betula? That's what the army does.

[Borlotti]

The thieves now being processed in court are the laggers, the slow of foot and wit that arrived late and got caught when the police finally decided the government was taking notice. The real instigators had moved on ages before, realising the police would only stand and watch for so long.
I agree with that statement.
They caught a young girl with a waste paper bin, that is sad, only copying.  I expect, as you say, the real instigators will get away with it.
I don't know the answer, only know that they scared the s..t out of me and I don't scare that easily.  After they set light to the rubbish and nearly caught the car alight and were all outside my house I couldn't sleep that night and was worried about the safety of the grandchildren, who are on school holidays and don't want them to go to Enfield town, although it seems to be very quiet now.
I would have felt safer when I had Basil Brush (my alastian/cross dog).  He was a softie really, but the dustman wouldn't come as they said I had a pack of wild dogs in my house, and we were never burgled until after he died.  Good excuse to get a dog, but can't whilst still have the old cat.

[betula]

Why are you making excuses for them Nigel?

Nothing you have said to me excuses what went on.

A lot of them were picked up on film evidence not just some being able to run quicker.

I am not getting into political debate with you as you are trying to excuse the inexcusable.

I think our Army are skilled enough to deal with them without using a gun.

Enough said.