Topic: Written warning letter please help

[Squash64]

The problem with this is that the Council does not have the authority to go onto let plots, so it can't legitimately authorise you to do something it can't do.  In a nut shell this is what the Council has let to the tenant and what the tenant pays rent for - exclusive posession. 

I'm a bit confused now (nothing new there then)
I've just checked Birmingham's rules and it says:-

13.   Inspection
13.1    The Allotment Garden (and any structure on it) may be entered and inspected by an Officer or member of the Council (including members of the Allotments Working Party) or an Officer of the relevant Association at any time and the Tenants must give whatever access they require.

All the plots on our site have a paved path at the side.  When we inspect plots we stay on the path.  Should we not be doing this?

[Robert_Brenchley]

It may be in the rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Council have the lawful authority to walk onto your plot any time they like.

[Squash64]

It may be in the rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Council have the lawful authority to walk onto your plot any time they like.

Robert, is there a difference between 'plot' and 'path'?  (I mean the path between plots)

[Unwashed]

Robert, is there a difference between 'plot' and 'path'?  (I mean the path between plots)

Hope you don't mind me answering for you Robert - but it depends Betty.  In Newbury the plots are separated by paths and the paths are the Council's to walk on as they please (though we have to cut the grass on them) but the Council can't as a right go walking about on the plot itself, not even on paths or grass  that the tenant may have laid out on their own plot.  But different sites have different arrangements, such as plots that are hedged or fenced around - the Council can't go onto those without the tenant's say so.

[Unwashed]

Squash - the home page says you posted in this thread at 1808 but I can't see that post.  Is the forum software misbehaving or something?

[ceres]

I think it's a glitch which I'll report to Dan.  The post doesn't show up when you view the thread as normal but if you open a reply window, you can see the post in the list of all posts down below the reply box.

[Unwashed]

Thanks Ceres, I see it like you said - odd.

I'm a bit confused now (nothing new there then)
I've just checked Birmingham's rules and it says:-

13.   Inspection
13.1    The Allotment Garden (and any structure on it) may be entered and inspected by an Officer or member of the Council (including members of the Allotments Working Party) or an Officer of the relevant Association at any time and the Tenants must give whatever access they require.

All the plots on our site have a paved path at the side.  When we inspect plots we stay on the path.  Should we not be doing this?

No, the Council can't create such a rule as it is repugnant to the essential nature of the tenancy - it is an implicit and inviolate condition of a tenancy that the landlord gives the tenant "exclusive posession" and allows the tenant "quiet enjoyment".  That's not to say the Council can't inspect on reasonable notice, but it's questionable whether a local authority landlord can ever require to look into sheds and polytunnels because of their legal duty to respect the tenant's privacy. (I think  :) )

[Squash64]

Robert, is there a difference between 'plot' and 'path'?  (I mean the path between plots)

Hope you don't mind me answering for you Robert - but it depends Betty.  In Newbury the plots are separated by paths and the paths are the Council's to walk on as they please (though we have to cut the grass on them) but the Council can't as a right go walking about on the plot itself, not even on paths or grass  that the tenant may have laid out on their own plot.  But different sites have different arrangements, such as plots that are hedged or fenced around - the Council can't go onto those without the tenant's say so.

Thanks for explaining Simon, but I am being particularly thick this evening....

The paths between our plots were laid by the Council, so I presume that means they belong to the Council?  If we, as the committee, only walk on the path and don't set foot on the actual plot, would that be alright? 

[Unwashed]

The paths between our plots were laid by the Council, so I presume that means they belong to the Council?  If we, as the committee, only walk on the path and don't set foot on the actual plot, would that be alright? 

Yes, that's fine, no problem with that.

[Digeroo]

I might not be right but I thought that the sheds of Squashes site are provided by the council, so I would expect them to be given reasonable access to check they are not damaged for example.  I would expect them to have to make an appointment. 

[Squash64]

I might not be right but I thought that the sheds of Squashes site are provided by the council, so I would expect them to be given reasonable access to check they are not damaged for example.  I would expect them to have to make an appointment. 

Yes, the sheds are provided by the Council but to be honest, I just don't have time to inspect sheds!  (shhh, don't tell the Council  ;))

[Unwashed]

I might not be right but I thought that the sheds of Squashes site are provided by the council, so I would expect them to be given reasonable access to check they are not damaged for example.  I would expect them to have to make an appointment. 

Is it necessary to inspect the inside of a shed to content yourself that it is not damaged?

[cornykev]

What about inside their wellys, they maybe taking top soil home with them.   :P

[pumkinlover]

What about inside their wellys, they maybe taking top soil home with them.   :P

You may be joking Kev but theft of soil is something that one member on my site has accused another one of!!! :-X

[Robert_Brenchley]

We once had a committee member - now long gone - who swore all the topsoil had been stolen off a particular plot; she had a feud with the former plotholder, and it was an excuse for not letting the plot, and claiming they'd 'ruined' it. In fact, the soil was on a level with all the other plots, and it's now growing perfectly good crops.

[pumkinlover]

You know if we made up these stories no-one would believe us but hey-ho they are TRUE ;D ;D ;D

[tony69]

Hi Guys,

Just an update for you all, we decided to get on with gardening and on the Thursday before we went away for 2 weeks we found a 1" slit in the bottom of our brand new water butt. Now we don't want to point fingers but this seems very strange when only 2 weeks prior the Secretary told us he was going to trash our allotment. Still we took the butt home and Tony is going to plastic weld it and we didn't say anything. Then we went on holiday.

Last Saturday the Treasurer visited us at the coast and told us he had gone mad at the chairman and the secretary, informing them that it was the secretary's attitude that caused all the upset in the first place. he asked how long our warning was to last as it wasn't stated in the letter and they both said it was for LIFE. He told them they couldn't do that everyone should get a warning for a set period, including his son as he also had a shouting match with the secretary, but they shrugged. They then told him that the Secretarys Wife and the Chairman's underage daughter were now on the association bank account cheque book. The Treasurer said surely if he was the Treasurer then he should be on the cheque book as the main signatory, they said well it was sorted when you were on holiday but they could get a form. They then told him that although both he and his wife and me and Tony both put the same amount into our plots the men were the plot holders and the women do not have a say on anything. The treasurer was steaming but we told him not to fight our battles but to just watch his own back.

We came home from holiday and I went to the allotment to be told that our irrigation system for the polytunnel had been turned off at the tap on the other two water butts so we had lost a couple of tomato's and cucumbers before Tony's Mum who was looking after it for us realised that the ground was very dry and the plants were shrivelling. She didn't didn't really need to go into our tunnel as we had set up a water irrigation system that would last 2 weeks so long as the water butts were topped up. But she was very welcome to enter if she wanted to or she fancied any of our veggies. She is in her eighties and we didn't want to leave her with loads of work to do.

Two very strange happenings, these are now making us nervous about what happens when were not there and we don't want to point fingers but if things keep mysteriously occuring then we will have no choice but to give up the lotty. We cannot without absolute proof accuse anyone and woulnd't dream of doing so but something's wrong.

The other plot holders are a school teaching couple who have said they don't like confrontation and don't want to get involved they just want to garden, 2 retired gents who just want to potter about and a man who has basically said that when the problems affect him he will put people on their backs but until then he's happy to carry on. Thats all there is apart from the chairman, secretary and treasurer. so we do not have any support really from other gardeners. Mind you one of the rules is that no plot can be edged and the man next to us has edged his plot with railway sleepers (before the rules went up) so it will be interesting to see if these rules apply to everyone except him or if he does indeed put them on their backs when they tell him to remove them.

Oh who was it that said gardening was a pleasant relaxing pastime (they want shooting).

Regards to all Karen

[Digeroo]

Surely the daughter of a committee member should not be a signatory on the bank account particuarly as she is under age.  I think I would be tempted to pin up the obligations and responsibilites of being a committee member on the notice board when not one is looking.  

I must say I am glad I do not have all that hassle.    The system of allotment management seems to be less important than that it works in an efficient and fair manner.  If you want to detect if someone is entering your allotment I suggest black cotton.  You put it across the entrance and fix it very loosely and if it has been disturbed then someone has been onto the plot.  In my case I have to put it high enough to miss the muntjac.    My sweet corn is disappearing so I know how frustrating it is when you feel that odd things are happeniing. 

A bit of a frustration for you if they arrange a 'meeting' everytime you are not around.  I think I would just try and garden and leave them to get on with it.

[tony69]

hi all just to let you know ive gone down the keep my head down root even though i think im number 1 on there hit list im hoping they move on to someone else soon.

things have moved on since my last post everything seems to be buy the book on paper but dodgy off ha ha.

anyway i have a question for you folks in the know. whats the difference between a allotment association and a allotment society as weve just had the name changed from one to the other

thanks tony

[SMP1704]

Let me get this right. The treasurer visited this allotment couple while on their holidays to update them on the dodgy dealings of the allotment association.  Really?

Perhaps I am just being cynical.

And as for having an under 18 as a co signatory - not a chance.