Topic: Brassicas are dead

[Duke Ellington]

Sorry to hear this Tee Gee. Last year we spoke about my problems with compost too.

This year I have added a lot of sand to my bought compost and have got much better results. I stupidly didn't add sand to the compost I used to pot on my basil seedlings and all of my basil seedlings died. I remember in discussion with Tee Gee that I was convinced that compost was definitely my problem and the basil outcome seems to prove this.

I read that a lot of bought compost are made up of domestic green waste collection containing a cocktail of ......as Tee Gee says "all sorts"  weed killers and other unknowns etc.

It is a right Royal pain in the butt.

Duke

[schmelda]

I also have had problems with seedling failing to develop properly/survive.

• My first lot of courgettes and squashes germinated just fine, but shrivelled and died after they were potted on (into different compost).  I haven't dared pot on the second (replacement) batch yet!  Seeds I sowed directly into the second compost didn't germinate.
• Kale hasn't done much since the first couple of leaves.
• My brussels sprouts germinated, and then died after the first couple of leaves developed.
• However, corn and parsnips seem to be doing just fine, in the same compost.  Though I am now wondering if they're all being a bit slow too... 

I haven't added any nutrients as they're all in new compost, but I will now give it a go to see if the half dead stuff revives.  I'll use some tea from my veg compost bin (ie worm tea, but without worm input!) and see what happens.

[Digeroo]

I have mixed my compost with recycled compost and got some goot results.

This thread was started my mpdjulie so we should be sympathising with her loss.  I would still recommended a high nitrogen feed asap.   I was sure mine were a goner. 
You might just find they pull through.  I am sure my problem was not with the seed because I sowed part of the packet direct and that it doing fine.  Apart from anything the problem plamt seeds came from different packets from different suppliers. 

[Jeannine]

Thanks you are absolutely right Digeroo, sorry Julie I was being very thoughtless there.

I can't answer your question but I am nevertheless really sorry this has happened and I apologise for appearing uncaring.

XX Jeannine

[davyw1]

Usualy Yellowing of the leaves indicates lack of nitrogen so you could try giving them a drink of Epsom Salts

[Tee Gee]

I guess it's me that should apologise to Julie but on answering her question it reminded me of my own problems and what I thought it was and things took off from there.

 Could it be that the suppliers are cutting corners?

What's on my mind is; In years gone by when they mixed traditional composts they had there recipes that covered the peat/sand/fertilsers and pH adjustor ratios.

Could it be that replacing peat ( in part) is knocking all their recipes out of kilter?

Are the substitutes they are adding possibly more acid or less acid than peat? And god forbid are they toxic?

I know that with that last bag of compost I bought I noticed some large splinters of wood had White paint on them :o

Now I know modern day paints are often water based but paints of yore often had a high lead / oil content the mind boggles.

OK  I am guessing all this and not trying to scaremonger but in the past if I had a problem I would always try to get answers to them and this problem has not been treated any differently.

This year  I have pricked out my plants 3 times!

The first time was into compost I had made myself with peat,sand and Ji base fertiliser, what I forgot to do in the first batch was add lime.

So in the second batch I added lime and pricked out again but to no avail,I am guessing then first batch took it's toll on the seedlings.

Then I bought some compost (just one bag) to see if this would make any difference and it did slightly but not to the seedlings that had been in previous mixes.

So you see it is not for the want of trying that I am thinking of giving it all up it's just I am short of answers and as things are getting more expensive each year I don' t want to have another year like the last two have been so I am thinking of cutting my losses.

Trouble is after forty odd year of it I don' know what I pass the time on if I am not gardening plus I do do love my fresh fruit & veg.

So once again julie sorry for commandeering your thread and let's hope we both get answers to our problem......Tg

[goodlife]

Tee Gee...I was given a bag of  peat free compost for trial...out of all my bucket crops that one bucket where I used the peat free those beans are really struggling to grow. All others are twice the size compaired those in peat free.. >:( They do not look sickly..just slow to grow...so it is not you...more likely the compost.
All others are grown just ordinary multipurpose and topsoil mix.
Now I'm going to scrape as much as the horrid woody stuff off from the surface and give it a layer of peatbased compost... ::)
Well....I was hoping to start reducing my peatbased compost useage...but as it is ...again..proven useless. Fine for mulching but no good for pot culture.

[queenbee]

Last season I had problems with compost bought from a well know supermarket and diy store, bits of laminated flooring and leather, when I sieved it there was very little soil came out of it. I remembered my dad used to sterilise ordinary soil from the garden in our old oven. I have done this for seed sowing in my microwave and added fine sand. Germination has been very good and no damping off. I added a bit off my compost heap and if this works this year I will be very pleased.

[manicscousers]

Sorry to hear about this, Julie..trouble is, don't know about you, I don't like buying in brassicas from anywhere, club root and all that.
Compost, we had a big discussion about it in 2008, this was what I bought , never again
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,45701.0.html

[budgiebreeder]

The more i read about this the more puzzled i am.I live in the same town as you T G but i got my compost from  over the border in Lancashire ( took me passport so i could get back into good old Yorkshire lol)its not theseeds as i have tried a few different sowings fom different   companies.Tried diffferent composts as well.i gave up in the end as me old back was cmplaining.
I also understand what u mean bout messing around with things and the organic craze .read today M&S are now gonna give us some tastier tomatoes lol what was wrong with em b4 they altered em all with the hydropinics.... nowt
Rant over cos i feel like giving up en all

[Paulines7]

I moved all my purple sprouting seedlings out of the greenhouse when the weather warmed up a few weeks ago but the next day they were all gone.  I don't know if it was slugs or birds that enjoyed the feast but I will have to sow some more.  The next lot will go under netting with slug pellets around the trays.  I try to be organic but I don't see I have any choice with my next lot.   ::)

[Digeroo]

Death brassicas is not excuse to give up TG.  We are relying on you to find the solution.

Thanks for reminding me I have some more brassicas seedlings just put their head up I don't want them hoovered off.  They are in recycled compost so I am seeing how that pans out.  It is growing great beans and courgettes.

[RSJK]

I have had no trouble with my seedlings (so far touch wood  I use Arthur Bowers, Grow Well, Clover and Humix compost and mix all 4 together to sow my seedlings in and to pot on/ Do not get me wrong I do have 1 or 2 plants that do not make it but few and far between.
I never buy compost from the big supermarket chains as I do not trust it.
But in general the quality of compost as gone down I feel.

[Tee Gee]

Death brassicas is not excuse to give up TG.  We are relying on you to find the solution.

Sorry my brassicas have not 'died' they are just not growing!

My veg has survived (just) but they are sickly looking plants!

I have planted them out and some seem to be recovering but others ?????

Hence my statement I will wait to the end of the season before I decide!


Its my bedding plants that are worst the majority are not fit for anything so these will go to the tip including the compost.

Then again if I do this am I creating the possibilty of buying it back after it has been recycled into the compost I buy next season?  ??? :-\

Regarding me finding a solution I am not sure!

I tried this year by making my own to see if that would help but due to the error I made it didn't work this time but there is always another time!

Having said that I have done a cost on making my own compost and it is working out nearly as expensive as buying it around a fiver a bag (70litres)

Prior to T&M buying out Chempak and upping the price of their products it is not as cheap an option as it once was. I always found in the past I could make my own for around half price but sadly these days have gone!

So another rip off in my opinion which fetches me to the confusion I created by mentioning;

decimilisation, it was a rip off,

europe is a rip off,

metrication is a rip off

 eg petrol before the litre it was the gallon and there used to be moans when they put it up a penny a gallon, but now that penny is nearly five times that much when it goes on a litre!

Organic is a rip off

 is not what it is cracked out to be i.e. it is not a level playing field.

Once you get your 'organic' license you can use 'chemicals' the only difference from the past is; it is more controlled ( or is it?)

Plus the younger ones that are trying to 'grow there own' sadly do not know any better and buy whats on offer without question, meaning us who are supposed to know have to pay the going rate as well!

I know I should get with it, and live with the times, but are these times better than the past?

I was brought up to believe if it is not broke don't fix it!

But Europe & Westminster try to fix it just to justify their existance it would seem!

Well that all I am saying on the matter!

On reading this through perhaps this article perhaps it should have been published in the 'shed' so if any one wants to add to the debate can I suggest they open up a new thread in 'the shed' and we take it from there........Tg

[RSJK]

entirely agree with you Tee Gee

[1066]

but are these times better than the past?

No, just different  :)

Is there any answer for you and others to use seed beds? I can see it working for veg, not sure how it would work for ornamentals though

[Dandytown]

I have not had problems with my brassicas but a similar thing with melon plants.  Nice and healthy before being transplanted into the greenhouse bed and looked good for a few days.  Watered at 9pm one night and the next morning they were in the same condition as your brassicas.

Planted cucumber plants straight away and they have been fine and are growing well.

Just don't know what happened  ???

[Tee Gee]

I think your problem was here;

Watered at 9pm one night

Melons a very temperamental to temperature changes!

They wouldn't take kindly to a cool wet bed, you would have been better watering in the morning. This allows any excess water to drain off and the soil to warm up before night sets in.

Its what the experts would call; a physiological problem!

[Dandytown]

Thanks Tee Gee.  It makes sense!