Author Topic: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL  (Read 12695 times)

Piglet

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WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« on: January 18, 2004, 19:33:51 »
I am an organic gardener, I have had my allotment for 3-4 years.  In my polytunnel :-

1st year did tomatoes + basil no problem,
2nd year tomatoes + marigolds - no problem
last year did tomatoes + tagetes 'lemon gem' we had white fly.

Will the white fly have overwintered in there ??
If so, does anyone know how I rid the beasties before I plant out this spring ??

Piglet.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

colinandyvonne

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2004, 20:44:35 »
I wasn't too sure personally so did a quick google and found this :-(

"LIFE CYCLE
Some whitefly species can overwinter outdoors as nymphs or pupae, all species overwinter indoors or in greenhouses. Females lay 200-400 yellow eggs in a circle on the undersides of leaves. Nymphs hatch in 3 to 10 days, crawl for several hours, then lose their legs and settle to feed until they pupate. Adults emerge within a week and repeat the cycle. There are numerous generations per year, with the life cycle taking 25 days at 20 deg. C and only 18 days at 27 deg."

There must be an organic disinfectant or bug killer around.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

tim

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2004, 13:18:19 »
'legless' again??

But, seriously - nothing is guaranteed against anything, but our practice is:

Spray the structure now with Armillatox. Next month I shall use sulphur candles. If we get the fly which, for the first time, we did last year, on aubergines, I use insecticidal soap. I don't like yellow sticky traps - they catch more hoverflies than pests. Stephan - you never get the fly, do you?? = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:01 by -1 »

cleo

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2004, 14:05:44 »
Me? get the fly? :-X.

Washing everywhere down helps,but I no longer use anything strong as I have resident frogs in the houses.

I do however use Savona as soon as I see any infestation and I keep using it until I am on top of the problem.

And yes I do round up ladybirds and put them in but often the fly appears before there are enough around the garden.

Yellow traps are indiscriminate killers and belong in the same bin as wide (I did say wide Tim)plastic mesh nets.

Stephan.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

Piglet

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2004, 22:42:21 »
Are 'Armillatox' or 'Savona' organic ? If not as I've never heard of either of them (sorry) organic dizzy female doesnt go down that aisle in the diy store. I havent explored what organic chemicals I can use as up till now ive relied on seaweed food, manure, companion planting and my spade, can you suggest an organic alternative please?  The polytunnel is completely empty at present so it would be easy to wash down the walls / roof, but what about the soil, is there anything left from the Whitefly (eggs?) remaining in the soil and if so what do i do with it please?  Funny but I grew Aubergines this year in the polytunnel - not very successfully they had to be pulled up as looked like red spider mite infestation and I had healthy peppers next to them, but the whitefly only seemed to be on the Tomatoes.

Tim: what do you do with the insecticidal soap and sulphur candles?

Thanks
Piglet
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

tim

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2004, 12:04:12 »
Armillatox - organic? - from the horse's mouth - yes! And biodegradable, yes. I have used it to sterilise my onion plot, and the whole greenhouse has been soaked in it. I am not worried about 'after effects'!

Soap? -  spray it - but don't overdo it - it can make things sticky. Savona? Would think so, but the stuff we use certainly is.

Sulphur 'candles' - they are tins of it, which you light & stand clear! Organiccatalog have them - and soap. = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:01 by -1 »

cleo

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2004, 20:24:25 »
Savona is deemed to be organic,it`s based on fatty acids.

But without wishing to open a hornets nest I get a bit fed up with this `organic` thing.

I feed my soil,use seaweed and loads of other stuff that is `organic`-but unless I wanted to pay as much as my annual profit I would not get the `ticket`from the Soil Association.

For me it`s all about soil condition and careful use of feed/pest control-and I remember using nicotine(organic) before it was essentially neutered as being too poisonous.

I also use fish blood and bone-organic(and slow release-that`s why)and chicken pellets. But can I be sure that these come from the same sources as I buy my meat/poultry?.

There is no answer to all this,possibly Growmore is more `humane` than feeding the industrial processing of fish and animal products.

Sorry got a bit OTT there!!!

Stephan.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

tim

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2004, 20:38:14 »
Do so agree!!

Trouble is - if we are doing it, that's OK - but if we are 'advising' - we advise care? = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:01 by -1 »

The gardener

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2004, 20:45:41 »
I agree Cleo/Stephan

The question I always ask the organic growers is;

What do you sow your seeds in and what do you pot up into? and thats before they plant out.

I think it is becoming too commercialised, and expensive to boot!

If common sense prevails and hygene & vigilance  is adhered to, you can grow vitually anything organically.

Finally if push came to shove and it was a case of chemicals or lose my stock then chemicals must come in to play.

For the record I used no chemical last season.

Those Parsnips and Parsnips I displayed on another thread only got a very little Fish blood & bone at planting out time.

Admittedly they got a fair dollop of farm yard manure the previous autumn.

Then there is the farm yard manure thing......my father in law went out of busines because of the health arrangements for live stock i.e. the injections to stop animal diseases getting into the human food chain.

The residue of these drugs must go somewhere ..........is it in the farm yard manure...............if yes!!! .......then so much for organic gardening.


My apolgies for being a bit cynical, must have been the wet sprouts that did it  ;D
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »


The Gardener

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2004, 21:44:57 »
Yes, we all suit ourselves. But if we lower our sights, what will the supermarkets do next? That they haven't already done?

Oh, and my style of 'friendly' growing differentiates between the inadvertent introduction of a 'nasty' in, say, manure, or the use of a chemical fertiliser in gro-bags , which I do - and the intentional use of a known poison on edible crops.

We were talking about whitefly?? = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:01 by -1 »

Piglet

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2004, 21:56:58 »
The Gardener;

Hey ho, organic gardening I know to some it is a bit of a cliche. but please let me explain my reckoning.

I started my allotment 3-4 yrs ago, and have been 'organic' from the start.  and why.... well there were so many scares farmers pesticides causing deformaties, cancer..... bse in cattle etc..... most of which whether true or not are based around people doing something un-natural to a natural product be it veg or meat (spraying chemicals, meatbased feed to herbivores).

So I feel it is best to grow as naturally as possible.  I do not sow in organic compost - no, and manure I understand if you leave for a year any horrors are supposed to leach out in this time.

My neighbour uses every possible chemical going,  he buys roundup and slug pellets in bulk, how does he know this is not in his crops or soil ?

I know no-one can be truely organic, due to the wind etc.. which may affect the site, but I try my best.  Expensive ? I dont use any chemicals only lots of manure and my spade /hoe there is no additional cost involved.

Each to their own I say.

Piglet.

« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

cleo

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2004, 22:38:15 »
And all power to your elbow Piglet,I hope that my rant was not seen as anti organic-just asking for some common sense.

Stephan.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

Ceri

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2004, 12:01:28 »
OK - can't resist adding my tuppenceworth.  Firstly I think 'organic' as in soil association, is probably a different conversation to allotment 'grow for our own table' gardening.  I think lottie holders can only 'work towards' organic practices if they wish to do so as they are usually so close to non-organic lotties.  For me its more about not being dependent on big organisations and having choice - i.e. not buying weedkiller from a conglomerate, not buying veg from a supermarket that has shafted a farmer, only having one type of runner bean to choose from etc.  Buying in products, even organic ones, just seems to go against the grain of the whole plotting affair to me - and adds hugely to the cost.
Perhaps for professional growers there should be a cheaper alternative to SA organic - some sort of "grown without the use of ****"  or 'grown using positive practices' type badge for the good practices used by Stephan et al?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

budgiebreeder

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2004, 12:13:53 »
These words Organic, quiche, Patio and many more ewhere have they come from? Do they mean natural flan and flagged area we never used to have them who invented them?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »
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The gardener

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2004, 14:22:30 »
Some common sense getting discussed here in my opinion.

Its not that I am against 'organic' growing I like to think I am virtually 'organic'  a bit like Ceri says its what we strive for and how we get it is the most important thing.

Its the people who say they are growing 'organic' and are not that get up my nose.

We have got a couple of so called organic gardeners on our plot, and I think it is these people that have put the bee in my bonnet.

To me they are just idle b****** who stick produce in the ground and leave it to its own resources thinking 'nature' will grow it 'organically' for them. .....some hope!

When in  truth 'organic gardening' done properly, is the most 'labour intensive' form of gardening

To a point I don't mind this, its entirely up to them,   BUT!!!!

When their produce becomes diseased ie viruses and rusts they just shrug their shoulders and make such comments as; 'how do you get your stuff to grow so well ?'

What  they don't seem to realise is;  how it can affect the rest of the growers, and that really upsets me.

I nearly through the towel in last year but have changed my mind, I am going to give it a go again this year.

In recent years we have been plagued with  with Downy mildew on our onion family, blight on our potatoe family and rust on our flowers.

I put this down to ignorance, if they had grown truly organically or indeed used chemicals this at least would have reduced if not stopped the spread of disease.

Is there an answer to the situation??? perhaps this is where the expression 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'[/i] comes to be. the operative word being  LITTLE.

Sorry folks if I have gone on a bit! but I love gardening, I like to help people who ask for advice, and I absolutely despise people who seem to know it all and know nothing  hence my out pourings.

Glad to say their none of this sort on this forum.

Once again Sorry!



« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »


The Gardener

Ceri

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2004, 14:32:11 »
budgie breeder: they were invented by the same people who invented the words and phrases:
ergonomic
to action (as in minutes of a meeting)
benchmarking
key performance indicators
potentiality

Thank god I got out of NTL before I started this scary speak
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

tim

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2004, 15:03:09 »
- they do have to justify their salaries?
And the less you understand, the better? = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

budgiebreeder

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2004, 15:30:07 »
I could go on as well Gardener.(not from yorkshire are you)my father gardened all his life and i never once heard him say the word organic and fine crops he grew too.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »
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Piglet

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2004, 21:04:13 »
As long as we all have happy healthy crops, with plenty of hoverflies, ladybirds, butterflies, bees etc.. it looks good on the plot/garden and plate - then what does it matter how we get there or what we call it.  

I am sorry I seem to have opened up a hornets nest using the word organic in my original question, maybe a natural gardener would be a more appropriate tag.  I do agree with your concerns but it is like other areas in life some people jump on a bandwaggon and use a type of gardening to excuse their lazy behaviour.  It is unfair if people are using this as a lazy form of gardening without addressing issues such as diseases etc. and dealing with them.  'The Gardener : Maybe the 'organic' gardeners on your site would welcome some advice on pests & diseases and dealing with them organically if they are not experienced gardeners they may not know what they have or how to deal with it maybe some tips via a newsletter may help the site in general?  

I do feel supermarkets have alot to answer for and believe it or not the Soil Association.  Farmers are under alot of pressure these days to meet eu, supermarket, soil association (if organic) requirements.  What happened to you plant something you nuture it and then you eat it, without profits, chemicals etc... coming into the equation not to mention seasonal food (but best not get me started on that subject).

I hope whatever method of gardening you all choose, you have healthy crops and a successful 2004 .

Piglet
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

tim

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Re: WHITEFLY - POLYTUNNEL
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2004, 21:47:03 »
It's not a 'hornet's nest' - it's just a matter of how far will you go to save the world - and the small producer - and your children?? And to make you feel 'comfortable' with yourself.  = Tim
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 by 1077926400 »

 

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