Topic: Very technical question - link between Verbenas and Solanums?

[Vinlander]

I'm very interested in overwintering tree tomatoes (Cyphomandra) and I'm looking for a hardy rootstock in the same Family - Solanacea.

The other day I saw a plant with the same leaf and more importantly the same fetid leaf smell - it was apparently Clerodendrum trichotomum - fully hardy in the south of England.

However it is listed as Family  Verbenacea.

How can this be???

Are the two Families related? If so it might still work...

Thanks.

[jennym]

What an intriguing question. I looked up the taxonomy of the 2, and they don't appear related. I don't think plants of different orders can be grafted. Maybe it was mis-named.
Are you intending to over winter the tree tomato outside? They are supposed to have a slightly woody stem and be able to over winter under cover. Found a good link on it: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/tamarillo.html

And here is the taxonomic stuff:
Kingdom  Plantae – Plants
Subkingdom  Tracheobionta – Vascular plants
Superdivision  Spermatophyta – Seed plants
Division  Magnoliophyta – Flowering plants
Class  Magnoliopsida – Dicotyledons
Subclass  Asteridae
Order  Solanales
Family  Solanaceae – Potato family
Genus  Cyphomandra Mart. ex Sendtn. – cyphomandra P
Species  Cyphomandra betacea (Cav.) Sendtn. – tree tomato P


Kingdom  Plantae – Plants
Subkingdom  Tracheobionta – Vascular plants
Superdivision  Spermatophyta – Seed plants
Division  Magnoliophyta – Flowering plants
Class  Magnoliopsida – Dicotyledons
Subclass  Asteridae
Order  Lamiales
Family  Verbenaceae – Verbena family
Genus  Clerodendrum L. – glorybower P
Species  Clerodendrum trichotomum Thunb. – harlequin glorybower P

[Vinlander]

Oh excellent!

Thanks Jennym - did you find this out on the web?

I'd like to know because I failed miserably - I suspect this kind of answer comes from having the right kind of books to hand... (?).

I occasionally have problems overwintering tree tomatoes indoors because of rotting roots (though just as often they get a rot midstem - but that's not as fatal).

I'm hoping that an old tree tomato will eventually throw in the towel by flowering and fruiting at a small size (they are TALL), but in the meantime it is one of the solanaceaous rootstocks I rely on for supporting even less hardy relatives like eg. Solanum quitoense (the lulo or golden apple of the Andes). I may try using it for aubergines and shy peppers (like Trinidad Perfume) in future.

Anyway - the species are obviously linked one stage above where I got to - subclass.

Not massively reassuring - since there are a HUGE number of plants that share this subclass - and I suspect that most of them wouldn't be compatible for grafting each other (especially as there are often individuals even within a single species that are graft-incompatible).

I suppose I have to admit that I'm attributing a lot of significance to the shape and smell of the leaves... this may be unjustified.

I just don't have that wide an experience of plants.

The problem is my own blinkered approach to botany - if you can't eat it, drink it or wallow ecstatically in the gorgeous smell of it - then I'm unlikely to be interested in it (unless you can make passionate advances to it - unlikely with any flora apart from Flora - a first name that is so out of fashion that I'm unlikely to ever meet her outside an old-peoples' home).

Cheers.

[jennym]

Yes, found this out on the web. I'd say that knowing the relevant words to use is the key, and owe the ability to do that to the studies I did at hort college and subsequently. For this sort of thing, the words TAXONOMY, TAXONOMIC, HIERARCHY, HIERARCHICAL, CLASSIFICATION, PLANTAE, PLANT KINGDOM and the scientific name of the plant you are looking for helps. I tend to check the plant name first and make a note of any variations in spelling. You might like to try searching for SUBCLASS ASTERIDAE to see what you get. Loads  ;D
Good luck with the grafting, you're much more adventurous than most of us, my partial experience is limited to bog standard fruits like apples, pears, plums!

[Vinlander]

Thanks JennyM,

Actually my success rate with woody cuttings is only about 50% whereas green cuttings are much easier and generally more successful as long as you can avoid over-crushing them.

I still only get about 75% success but that's because of my big sausage fingers...

Lulo grafts well onto tree tomato and will successfully fruit in the second year yielding berries that taste of lime and pineapple. The plants look fantastic - imagine a 1.5m aubergine plant made out of dayglo purple velvet.

However with hindsight I can assure you it's lot easier and more rewarding to grow limes and buy pineapples...

Cheers.