Topic: Am I a criminal gardener?

[grawrc]

Just cleared out the darkest recesses of my shed and found Sybol, Nimrod-T, Rapid and Benlate as well as liquid malathion. Are these still legal? How do I find out? And if not, how do I dispose of them?

[:(]

This is the database of legal products for garden use. If its not on the database its illegal.

https://secure.pesticides.gov.uk/garden/prodsearch.asp

This is about disposal.

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/garden_home.asp#Disposal

[Tee Gee]

Sybol, Nimrod-T, Rapid and Benlate as well as liquid malathion. Are these still legal? How do I find out? And if not, how do I dispose of them?

Shhhhhh!! Let me whisper in your ear so the rest can't hear, not sure about Nimrod  but the remainder are banned but who's to know  8) If you want to use them, then use them!

Failing that look in here!

http://www.rhs.org.uk/Gardening/Help-advice/Garden-chemicals-and-pesticides

[grawrc]

Thank you both! I'll try to clear the shed out more often!

[grannyjanny]

Don't do that Grawrc, you wouldn't have any surprises/shock if you did that ;).

[Ellen K]

I inherited a load of stuff from the previous tenant including a packet of Weedol from the days when it contained Paraquat ("Rainproof and Harmless to soil") and an insecticide spray  whose name I can't remember but the active ingredient is lindane.

Paraquat seems to be making a bit of a comeback so you never know!

[Vinlander]

Most of these old chemicals were introduced as absolutely 'the thing' - up to date, scientifically tested*, and safer than the old methods.

Only the first was true, the last a part truth (safer than lead arsenate maybe - but more dangerous than nicotine in most environments).

*The middle one was complete nonsense - science is based on DOUBT - it is the opposite of novelty. Some confidence comes with time - but we are talking centuries here...

ONLY FOR THOSE WITH A STRONG STOMACH:-

NB. The one that seems most harmless (Benlate - no smell, no taste) is actually the worst.

Benlate causes almost no side effects in the user - but was banned because some heavy users started having babies with no brains in their skulls...

Time is the only test...

Cheers.

[Tee Gee]

no brains in their skulls...

Ah!! NowI know why I have persevered with an allotment for so long. :-\

ps Was it not banned because of its Mercury content? ???

[Ellen K]

It was eyes not brains.  And it was fear of endless litigation that caused the manufacturer to withdraw the product from the market.  They were not required to by any Govt Regulatory or environmental body.

[Kea]

My cousin's teenage son took weed killer as a 'cry for help' unfortunately it was paraquat and they just had to spend the day holding his hand as he died.

[grawrc]

How horrible for you and your family and for the poor young man. My nasties are all safely locked away so unlikely to cause that kind of damage at least. But you're right, it's really not a subject to treat lightly.

[chriscross1966]

I had a bit of a clear out of the shed on my old plot as I was leaving ..... does anyone know when/why they withdrew Malathion?...I seem to have a fiar amount of it.... from memory it was pretty effective......
chrisc

[:(]

I had a bit of a clear out of the shed on my old plot as I was leaving ..... does anyone know when/why they withdrew Malathion?...I seem to have a fiar amount of it.... from memory it was pretty effective......
chrisc

Details of withdrawal are here

[chriscross1966]

Hmm... like a lot of other things there it looks like no-one was willing to pay the registration fee for it cos it was old and out of patent.... Same's true of Rotenone I guess, it was the only thing that I ever found that kept flea-beetles at bay on young brassicas.... but it's anatural plant extract and if there ever was a patent it had long expired....

chrisc

[daveylamp993]

 i also had a good amount of these products when i cleared my allotment shed out,i have continued to use them to good effect,with no problems,i had 4 tubs of the old type bromofoss for carrott fly,i have not had carrott fly since i started using it again and the carrotts were the best ive ever had this year,i will continue to use it all until it has gone,if it was ok to use it years ago in my book its ok to use it now,i believe its just the stupid european union rules in different countries that are being forced on us british gardeners,they make millions of pounds but wont pay for the patent of a product because the E.U have said they need to take 1 or 2 ingredients out which makes the product ineffective,.,.,.,.,. i will continue to use them.

[:(]

i also had a good amount of these products when i cleared my allotment shed out,i have continued to use them to good effect,with no problems,i had 4 tubs of the old type bromofoss for carrott fly,i have not had carrott fly since i started using it again and the carrotts were the best ive ever had this year,i will continue to use it all until it has gone,if it was ok to use it years ago in my book its ok to use it now,i believe its just the stupid european union rules in different countries that are being forced on us british gardeners,they make millions of pounds but wont pay for the patent of a product because the E.U have said they need to take 1 or 2 ingredients out which makes the product ineffective,.,.,.,.,. i will continue to use them.

I hope if you give away fruit or veg to friends, family, neighbours you tell them theyve been treated with banned (illegal) chemicals so they can make up their own minds if they want to eat them

[Morris]

Kea, that is such a sad story; I am so sorry for the family and the poor boy, of course  :'(

[Vinlander]

i also had a good amount of these products when i cleared my allotment shed out,i have continued to use them to good effect,with no problems,i had 4 tubs of the old type bromofoss for carrott fly,i have not had carrott fly since i started using it again and the carrotts were the best ive ever had this year,i will continue to use it all until it has gone,if it was ok to use it years ago in my book its ok to use it now,i believe its just the stupid european union rules in different countries that are being forced on us british gardeners,they make millions of pounds but wont pay for the patent of a product because the E.U have said they need to take 1 or 2 ingredients out which makes the product ineffective,.,.,.,.,. i will continue to use them.

I hope if you give away fruit or veg to friends, family, neighbours you tell them theyve been treated with banned (illegal) chemicals so they can make up their own minds if they want to eat them

Daveylamp says "if it was ok to use it years ago in my book its ok to use it now".

A true statement - except it never was OK - the manufacturers said it was and they have since been proved wrong.

It's not about feeling bad the next day or next week.

Instant effect with no long term damage was what you got with simple old poisons like nicotine - which was banned in favour of unpredictable new products.

If you follow the instructions on your old stuff carefully you will probably never know if it is damaging your neurological or reproductive health or whatever - but it has been proved to be a real risk.

This stuff isn't safe to use on food because it never was safe to use on food - the question of  illegal or not is irrelevant.

Every single new insecticide, fungicide and herbicide that has been introduced (since manufacturers started producing complex and unpredictable compounds like DDT) has been proved to have long term ill effects.

Few have lasted more than a decade or two. All the current ones are about to be banned or are suspect.

For example Dithane is still about but the evidence has gradually built up and it is about to be banned.

This is not mad elfansafety - it is the good side of the coin - the one that works - the one that made our society prepared to put up with far too much of the mad stuff because it's impossible to get the balance right - you can only have too much or too little vigilance.

It simply isn't scientific to say you can prove anything this complex is safe - time is the only test - it turns out that decades are needed and we are the guinea pigs - the best ones and the cheapest - hell, for a few thousand spent on advertising they can persuade us to pay for the privilege of testing this stuff on ourselves and our children.

Every single test to date has failed.

[Ellen K]

^^ Dithane isn't about to be banned on safety grounds.  If fact there is a lot of data to say it's pretty safe when used according to the label.  It's not persistent either, being rapidly broken down in the soil and metabolised in cells - unlike copper based fungicides.  

A lot of things changed after Thalidomide (and your reference to DDT is out of date) and combined with our litigious culture the industry has become very cautious.  But Bayer withdrew Dithane from the amateur market simply because it was expensive to renew the licence and the product didn't make enough money to justify it.

[Kea]

It was 20 years ago. My cousin was over visiting me with his wife two years ago and they didn't mention their son at all...that was the first time I had met him as I'm a lot younger and they lived in Canada for a long time.

I had to mouth pipette paraquat in a plant physiology practical.....very nerve-wracking...again 20 years ago but soon after my cousin's son died.

I had a close shave with thalidomide...my Mother suffered severe morning sickness while pregnant with me and the Dr gave her thalidomide but she decided not to take it, but I went through school with people who were affected. I suspect as i lived on a farm i will have other chemicals stored e.g. DDT.