Topic: Cost of Birmingham's allotments

[Unwashed]

Sorry to be serious again, but it's an issue that is going to be affecting many of us some time or other and I think it's important.  I want to make the case for cheap allotments.

I understand the drive to increase rents:  Council's are embarrassed about the amount of tax-payers' money they spend on their allotment service, and rents of around £5 -£10 per pole make allotments ludicrously cheap if you're a middle-class hobbyist with two and a half poles - less than the price of the sunday newspaper, or a meal for two, and a tenth the cost of a cheap gym membership.

And all of that is completely true.  But the essence of an allotment is that it's a space for the working family to grow their fruit and veg cheaper than going to Tesco, and it must be accessable to everyone whatever their means.  Fruit and veg, well, veg at least is very cheap, probably too cheap actually, but that sets a cap on rent.  The allotmenteer is investing their own time and buying seed, tools and sundries so there's only the tinyest margin to bring your produce home from the allotment cheaper than from the supermarket, and that means allotments really do need to be ridiculously cheap.

OK, one way around this is to offer discounts, but discounts are demeaning.  Offering discounts to the unemployed and pensioners doesn't help those in most need - those in work on the minimum wage, and it makes the rents more expensive for the rest of us as we subsidise the not-so-needy - not every pensioner is exactly a pauper, and that's true for some unemployed too.

To some extent I still believe that allotments are a public good that is rightly subsidised by the tax-payer, but councils have also been allowed to become inefficient.  For example the allotment service in Newbury is a £115k turnover business for the council, that's over £200 per plot, and it has absolutely no intention of spending any less.  Whether it brings in the cash from rents of on the precept it's all the same to them so long as they have the pretext to spend all of that lovely money.

And the answer?  We know that sites can be run both cheaply and well if the allotmenteers are prepared to self-manage.  I'd happily charge someone £50 per pole if that was truely the cost of providing the service and that allotmenteer wasn't interested in signing up to a working party or doing a bit of admin, but for those of us who were willing to do our bit in whatever capacity our abilities allow, then I feel we should have the option of a cheap plot.

Don't get me wrong, the affluent middle classes are as welcome to allotments as any hoary-handed son of toil, but allotments must remain affordable to everyone, and if that includes everyone in their upkeep and administration then that has to be a good thing, right?

[:(]

I understand the drive to increase rents:  Council's are embarrassed about the amount of tax-payers' money they spend on their allotment service, and rents of around £5 -£10 per pole make allotments ludicrously cheap if you're a middle-class hobbyist with two and a half poles - less than the price of the sunday newspaper, or a meal for two, and a tenth the cost of a cheap gym membership.

Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.

[Growing4twins]

Oh my, i had heard rumors about  the rents being increased  but i had no idea that it would be put up by this much!!!

I know when you break it down £75 a year is a bargain for what we gain on the allotment but at the moment i just do not know where i would find £75 to pay my rent.  I am a single mom of twins who is currently on benefits so money is tight at the best of times & i have to plan well in advance at the moment as to what i can save to pay my rent of £28.

The allotment (or our garden as the twins call it) isn't just about growing our own fruit & veg.  As was stated earlier in the thread you can buy it so cheap these days.  For us it is having an outdoor space as we live in a 6th floor flat.  It is a place to play, teach, learn, relax & meet new friends.  My children are fascinated with wildlife & are getting to see things that they wouldn't have been able to due to living in a flat.  It would break my heart to have to give up the allotment due to rent increases.  If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.

This is very sad news :(

[Unwashed]

If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.

That is your right.  S.10(2) Allotments Act 1950.  Council's can't make you pay it all in one go and they should make quarterly the default option.  If they don't offer a quarterly option just pay it quarterly anyway, and if the council kick off remind them of the above.

Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.

In Newbury Town Council's case it's because the subsidy is enormous and unnecessary.  £55k to administer the service and £38k of overheads which the tax-payer pays for.  It's embarrassingly inefficient but it's doubly difficult to defend when the Council are being asked for self-management which would save it all.

More generally though it's a combination of the change in the nature of allotments and the extra pressure on spending.  Allotments are not seen as a public good any more, and nor are they seen as a resource for the working family, the resurgence of interest in the movement is largely from the middle class hobbyist and that puts legitimate pressure on the service to be self-financing which wasn't there ten years ago.

[Digeroo]

Some councils offer a reduction to those on benefits.

I understand that for many money is tight, but I am currently saving huge amounts on my food bill.  I do not reckon to buy much in the way of fruit or veg for months now.  Only purchases this week was a 28p aubergine and a 80p melon.  Kast year my veg lasted me until well into January and this year it should be longer.  Hopefully by Xmas I will have easily saved more than enough to pay for lottie and seeds etc.   

We never eat out I just spend too much time moaning about the vegetables. ;D

No public ones here so a half size allotment £45. 

Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent.  There are a lot of people out there struggling to pay their council tax bills. 

And yes I think people should be expected to pay a fee for each book borrowed.

[Chrispy]

Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent.  There are a lot of people out there struggling to pay their council tax bills. 

How can that be right?
If a typical Bill is £30, then the cost of water is £120.
That's over 32p per day.
Can't find the price of water in Birmingham, but lets says it's 50% more expensive than here.
By my guesstimate it would mean every plot holder is using 200L, that is a full water butt, every day, 365 days a year.
OK, have not taken the standing charge into account, but how much difference would that make?

To say the water bill is 4x the collected rent seems ludicrous!! What am I missing?

[Unwashed]

Birmingham have already stated that their water bill is 4x the cost of the rent.

See, I don't quite understand that.  It's difficult to put a pole rate on BCC's allotments because their plots are priced small, medium, large, etc which come in a range of sizes, but on average I think it works out something like £3.00 per pole, so even allowing for half the tenants being pensioners with a discount that still means they're pulling in rent at over £2.00 per pole, and given that they have a hosepipe ban I don't understand how they can possibly be using water across all 120 sites at £8.00 per pole when typical use is more like£1.00 per pole.  Can anyone shed any more light on this?  

Ed: sorry Chrispy, didn't see your post.  Exactly what I'm wondering.

[Digeroo]

This whole thing does seem odd because presume it is based on last year.  Apart from a few weeks in May and June when it was hot and a little for seedlings I did not use any water at all.

Their bill this year will be enormous!!!!

I wonder whether they are charged the sewage charge since the water does not go back into the drain.  If there anyone here from Birmingham how much do you pay for your water?

[Old bird]

Growing4twins I am sure that there will be some way that they will allow you to pay in instalments and maybe if you are on benefits you may have a discounted bill as well.  It sounds like you three really need your outside space!!

I can see how £75 per year would look insurmountable but take it a chunk at a time and it really isn't that bad!.  You may be able to give/sell some of your surplus produce to relatives/friends/neighbours and that should cover the increase quite easily!

Best of luck anyway - but I shouldn't worry about it because it may not happen for a while!

Old Bird

[shirlton]

Our South Staffs water bill was £142-26 for water and £173-67 for used and surface water. This was for last year up to March 2010.
BTW..... Thankyou for sharing you wealth of information with us Unwashed.

[Trevor_D]

Our water bill for 2009 was £447. (Metered, not estimated - for about 85 plots of varying sizes.)

This year's is bound to be higher! We've just paid the bill (estimated) for the first half-year, but as I'm not Treasurer I don't have the amount to hand. (They will then come and give us an accurate reading in October, when we turn the water off for the winter.)

[Growing4twins]

If this proposed increase is to go ahead then maybe they could set up a quarterly payment plan so it doesn't hit people in my position to hard.

That is your right.  S.10(2) Allotments Act 1950.  Council's can't make you pay it all in one go and they should make quarterly the default option.  If they don't offer a quarterly option just pay it quarterly anyway, and if the council kick off remind them of the above.

Why are they embarassed about subsidising allotments any more than subsidising libraries or swimming pools or leisure centres or any other non-essentail service.

Ooo thanks for pointing that out to me unwashed.  That would come in very handy.  Many a times ive had a spare £10 & i wished it could be used to pay for the rent but then sumthing else always crops up!!

Our water bill for 2009 was £447. (Metered, not estimated - for about 85 plots of varying sizes.)

This year's is bound to be higher! We've just paid the bill (estimated) for the first half-year, but as I'm not Treasurer I don't have the amount to hand. (They will then come and give us an accurate reading in October, when we turn the water off for the winter.)

Maybe this could be the solution to the water?  Maybe all allotments should be on a water metre so they know just how much the water is costing them??

[Squash64]

Maybe this could be the solution to the water?  Maybe all allotments should be on a water metre so they know just how much the water is costing them??

I've just had some very disturbing news from our Allotments Dept at the council.  The water bill for our site alone is for £717.93 and shows consumption of 447 cu m. This is for just 4 months April to July.
 
We have about 110 plotholders on our site with about 55 of them over the age of 60 and paying half of the £28 per year rent.


Our site is metered as a whole, not on each individual plot.

We have put up notices by every standpipe telling people to only use the hose for filling water butts and not to water their plots with it.
I have sent emails to about 60 people and printed and laminated the email for those not on the internet.
This week I gave a plotholder the official letter about water usage after he was seen watering his greenhouse with a hose.
It is impossible for any plotholder to be unaware of the restrictions.....

Some plotholders are obviously coming very early morning or late night and watering directly with hoses.

I just don't know what we can do to make people understand that there isn't a bottomless pit of money to pay the bills with.....

Maybe if/when BCC cuts the water off people will get the message.

[Chrispy]

Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.

I pay a total of £36 all in, so a bit more, pensioners also get 50% off, but here is the difference, pensioners only get 50% off the plot, they don't get any discount on the water, or any second plot.

We are allowed hoses, nobody sees that as a problem here.

[Squash64]

Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.

I'm hopeless at maths, but the figure of £717.93 is for only 4 months.  Would it be £2153 for a full year? Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?

[Chrispy]

Double that for the full year, that's £13 per plot, which is what I pay for my 10 rod plots water.

I'm hopeless at maths, but the figure of £717.93 is for only 4 months.  Would it be £2153 for a full year? Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?

Our water is switched off for nearly 4 months in the year, so only counting 8 months, assumed you did the same, although there would still be a standing charge during that time that would add a bit.

[Digeroo]

Does that work out at almost £20 per plot?

Currently, the water bill for allotments is approx 4 x higher than rent collected and is currenty heavily subsidised by council tax payers.

Even at £20 per plot which is very high it is not the 4X higher which Lisa stated in an earlier post.  Can someone ask her to check out her post? 

Sounds as if you need a timer to switch it off at night. 

Sounds as if you need a well is that a possibility?

[Unwashed]

Betty, £717 for 447 m³ seems expensive at £1.6/m³.  Like Digeroo says, I wonder if you're paying sewerage in that charge, or maybe that really is the non-domestic rate water companies charge for water.  At that price it certainly makes investigating a well an idea.  But I'd query that water rate.

But working out the consumption - are those 10 pole plots for £28 betty?  If they are then going with a typical useage of 1m³ per pole I'd expect the site to use 1100 m³ in the year, and April to July would probably account for two thirds of that use, so that would be 733 m³, so actually your site doesn't appear to be using water at all excessively by those figures.

But like Digeroo says, can you confirm with Lisa what she says about the water bill being 4x the rental revenue, because I reckon your site generates £2300 revenue, and no way is its water bill going to be £9200 for the year, £1075 more like.

[Unwashed]

Betty, Severn Trent tell me that the water rate is £1.36 per m³ and the standing charge (for a 2" supply) is £93, and if they're also charging you for sewerage that's another £0.86 per m³ with another smaller standing charge, though as you use most of the water on the allotments you'll qualify for partial return discount on that.

So it looks like your paying 4 months standing charge and water at £1.5 per m³.  On that basis I'd budget for £1800 for the annual water bill (though it looks like your sites uses less than that), and that's a large fraction of your rental revenue, but nothing like 4x.

[Squash64]

Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to work out these figures Simon - you actually sound as though you enjoy it!

I've looked at how many plots of varying sizes we have, and how much people are paying. (over 60s pay half price)  Here goes:-

We have 4 plots (quarter size) of up to 100 sq.yds    @    £12 each  £  48
              21         (half size)  101 - 200 sq.yds             @    £22 each  £462
              11                "                   "                            @    £11 each  £121
              31          (full size)   201 - 400 sq.yds            @     £28 each  £868
              49                 "                   "                           @     £14 each  £686

making a total revenue of £2185 (if I've done my sums right!)