Topic: Gigandes Beans

[1066]

I was given some of these in a swap and they are coming on a real treat. But today I noticed that I have a rogue 1 in amongst them - the others all have white flowers but the rogue one has red ones. Now if I want to save some for next year and swapping what should I do about the rogue plant? Ignore it, hoik it out? Somat else?

Thanks
1066  :)

[Jeannine]

Keep it seperate, save the beans, keep the beans seperate, send a few to me and see what they produce next year.. Exciting ::)

XX Jeannine

[1066]

 ;D  ;D  ;D will try to!
How do you mean separate? At the moment all the plants are climbing nicely up 8 foot canes. Do you mean I mark the plant in some way (a piece of srting or summat) and keep some of the pods on to dry?

Thanks again Jeannine  :)

[Jeannine]

Yes, not too easy but try to keep an eye on just the plant who is putting out the odd flowers. I would put a string or ribbon right by each odd flower so you get the beans from the pods it produces, that might be easier than trying to mark the plant. Wait till the pods dry completely on the plant.
.Then yes, collect  the beans from the pods produced by the odd flower and keep them seperate.

XX Jeannine

[1066]

thanks  :) thta's a great tip about putting the marker by the flower. Will do that on Friday when I next get up to the plot

1066  :)

[Robert_Brenchley]

It sounds as though you've got an accidental cross. If you hand pollinate some of the 'true' flowers, you'll get unadulterated Gigantes next year. You can mark the ones you want to save but tying a bit of cotton round the stem; one colour for the red flowers, another for the white.

[meg_gordon]

I was given some of these in a swap and they are coming on a real treat. But today I noticed that I have a rogue 1 in amongst them - the others all have white flowers but the rogue one has red ones. Now if I want to save some for next year and swapping what should I do about the rogue plant? Ignore it, hoik it out? Somat else?

Thanks
1066  :)

Got another couple of kilos of these (for eating) but I think I will keep a couple of dozen and grow these next year - when did you sow them - and when did you plant them out 1066?

Meg

[chriscross1966]

I sowed mine in rootrainers (the deep ones) at the end of April, they went into deep 6" pots late May and into final positions mid/late June. Currently booming away and can see a lot of set pods, but they are a magnet for blackfly ATM....


chrisc

[artichoke]

I think you got them from me. Last year I grew them on the same poles as scarlet runners, and it never occurred to me that they might cross. All the beans I sent out were purest white, so impossible to know they contained hidden genes!

It seems to me that if you do save their seed, all you are going to get is a reversion to ordinary runner beans (yes, I know the Mendelian proportions, but I bet that's what happens).

None of mine have red flowers so far.

[galina]

I think you got them from me. Last year I grew them on the same poles as scarlet runners, and it never occurred to me that they might cross. All the beans I sent out were purest white, so impossible to know they contained hidden genes!

It seems to me that if you do save their seed, all you are going to get is a reversion to ordinary runner beans (yes, I know the Mendelian proportions, but I bet that's what happens).

None of mine have red flowers so far.

Bean seed coat consists of maternal genetic material, The seed inside is filial and can be crossed, but it is impossible to tell whether or not is is crossed just by looking at the seed.  The seed will always look like the mother variety seed.

As runnerbeans cross freely, I would pull the odd one out altogether (if there are no other runnerbeans in the area), and only use seeds from pods from flowers that form afterwards, or bag and hand pollinate to ensure all are the white bean variety,

At least it is very easy to spot the odd one out.  With a pure white runnerbean and a red one, you can often see odd ones by the stem colour, long before flowers open.  Many red flowered runnerbeans have reddish stems.

[1066]

Yes I did get them from you Artichoke  :)

Chris - mine are also covered in black fly  :-X

Meg - I sowed them on 14th May and planted them out 28th May (I chitted them on damp paper 1st to make sure they germinated)

Galina - I'm not growing any runner beans this year, my nearest neighbour is - her plants are about 15 to 20 foot away. Today I tied some string round the red ones - but now I'm not sure what to do as it sounds like it could be a runner?

Thanks 1066
 

[Jeannine]

1066, Gigandes ,runners ,same family..coccineus XX Jeannine

[galina]

Galina - I'm not growing any runner beans this year, my nearest neighbour is - her plants are about 15 to 20 foot away. Today I tied some string round the red ones - but now I'm not sure what to do as it sounds like it could be a runner?

Thanks 1066
 

Yes, as Jeannine said, Gigandes are runnerbeans.  You are growing runnerbeans, which can cross with your 'odd-one-out' and with your neighbour's beans,  Sorry about that.

[1066]

boo hoo hoo hoo hoo  :'(  :'(  :'(
I was really hoping to be able to save the seed for swaps (and for me next year)

1066  :)

[galina]

boo hoo hoo hoo hoo  :'(  :'(  :'(
I was really hoping to be able to save the seed for swaps (and for me next year)

1066  :)

But you still can save seeds.  Three ways:

For pure seeds,  Bag unopened flower trusses and handpollinate with a tiny brush any opened flowers, then bag again to prevent insect access,  There should still be some flowers that haven't opened and there is still time to ripen the seeds.

For not so pure seeds:  Just take seeds from any Gigande plant and shell the pods.  All seeds should be white, because the mother is Gigande.  Sow them next year in the knowledge that you will get a few rogues.  Pull the rogues at the first opportunity (check seedling stem colour too).  Most should be Gigande this way.  If you pass the seeds on, say that some may not be pure. 

This method is perfectly acceptable for seeds for yourself.  Any crossed runnerbeans are just as edible as Gigande and you can see from the white flowers what is or isn't Gigande easily if you don't grow white flowering runnerbeans.

Third way.  You can overwinter your pure Gigande roots and start again minus any rogues, then either handpollinate or put in a location without other runnerbeans around and let them get on with it.

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you grow them ten or twenty yard from other runner beans you should be able to minimise the rogues. I made a mistake and planted mine a few yards from another variety so I really am going to have to bag them this year, and maybe try overwintering roots as well.

[Digeroo]

If you grow them ten or twenty yard from other runner beans

The bees go a great deal further than 20 yards.  Handpollinating is not so difficult for some pure ones.  But if you have a good row of them hopefully a good percentage will have germinated with your own beans.  If you keep the pure ones yourself you can then give the others to people who know there might be rogues.  I also like to select the plants that grow best in my particular conditions.  Sometimes the rogues are particularly interesting. 

Even the seeds from HSL have the occassional rouge. 

[1066]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not sure about hand pollinating them, I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can attempt it. In the meantime I think I'll pull the rogue plant out.

How would I go about overwintering a gigandes plant? Would I leave it in situ and cloche it? Or pull it, cut it back and put in a pot?

Thanks again for all the info and feedback. As ever lots to learn and loads of helpful advice on here  :)

[galina]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not sure about hand pollinating them, I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can attempt it. In the meantime I think I'll pull the rogue plant out.

How would I go about overwintering a gigandes plant? Would I leave it in situ and cloche it? Or pull it, cut it back and put in a pot?

Thanks again for all the info and feedback. As ever lots to learn and loads of helpful advice on here  :)

The garden books say, over winter like Dahlia roots.  Well that did not help me any ......

This is what I do:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,61570.0.html

you need to scroll down a bit, but you might find the whole post worth reading.

[galina]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm not sure about hand pollinating them,

This explains how to handpollinate runner beans:

http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/hsl/seed_saving/ssg7_runner_beans.php

Good luck.